JonSidneyB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Ok, in North America we have 110v standard. Is Europe the same all over? In Asia I am guessing it varies. Can someone educate me on AC power in various locations.
Thanks
Jon
Thanks
Jon
AC specks/Double check what I have. Help
- Thread starter JonSidneyB
- Start date
Frenchyled
Flashaholic*
Re: AC specks around the globe?
Jon,
In France it's 220/230 VAC 50 HZ. And the plug are not the same as the U.S one. I have an Universal adaptor. I'll take some pictures, and you can see all AC specks in the world.
Just a minute.....
and voilà !!
Jon,
In France it's 220/230 VAC 50 HZ. And the plug are not the same as the U.S one. I have an Universal adaptor. I'll take some pictures, and you can see all AC specks in the world.
Just a minute.....
and voilà !!
GeoffChan
Enlightened
Re: AC specks around the globe?
Hi Squidy,
Aussies use 240Volts at 60Hz
Geoff
Hi Squidy,
Aussies use 240Volts at 60Hz
Geoff
cosco
Newly Enlightened
Re: AC specks around the globe?
In Czech Republic we have the same voltage like in France. I am pretty sure it is the same in the whole Europe. However we have different plug. Something like lower left corner on FrenchyLed picture.
In Czech Republic we have the same voltage like in France. I am pretty sure it is the same in the whole Europe. However we have different plug. Something like lower left corner on FrenchyLed picture.
14C
Enlightened
HarryN
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: AC specks around the globe?
One additional difference - In the US, most homes and small business operations are single phase only. At least in Germany, many homes have 3 phase power coming in.
One other safety related difference. In Germany at least, they tend to use a common setup (wire size, fuse, etc) for 0 - 15 ? amps (it might be 20 amps).
When they need more power, they jump up to the next voltage, which I think is nominally 100, 200, and 400 volts.
In the US, we have to fuse to the load, especially in equipment (a 2 amp load gets a 2 amp fuse, not a 15 amp fuse).
Also, the Europeans often allow signal and power cables in one wire bundle and inside the same conduit, while the US requires separation of power (> 48 volts) from signal (< 48 volts)
One additional difference - In the US, most homes and small business operations are single phase only. At least in Germany, many homes have 3 phase power coming in.
One other safety related difference. In Germany at least, they tend to use a common setup (wire size, fuse, etc) for 0 - 15 ? amps (it might be 20 amps).
When they need more power, they jump up to the next voltage, which I think is nominally 100, 200, and 400 volts.
In the US, we have to fuse to the load, especially in equipment (a 2 amp load gets a 2 amp fuse, not a 15 amp fuse).
Also, the Europeans often allow signal and power cables in one wire bundle and inside the same conduit, while the US requires separation of power (> 48 volts) from signal (< 48 volts)
idleprocess
Flashaholic
Re: AC specks around the globe?
Europe has a standard called the EIB (European Installation Bus?) that mixes power lines with signal lines for things like thermostats, etc.
At least several European electrical connector vendors promote their products for EIB.
Most of the rest of the world uses 220/240 single-phase for small residential loads. There are many many AC-DC adaptors out there that autorange from 110-240 50/60 Hz - all you need to do is supply the correct receptacle adaptor.
Europe has a standard called the EIB (European Installation Bus?) that mixes power lines with signal lines for things like thermostats, etc.
At least several European electrical connector vendors promote their products for EIB.
Most of the rest of the world uses 220/240 single-phase for small residential loads. There are many many AC-DC adaptors out there that autorange from 110-240 50/60 Hz - all you need to do is supply the correct receptacle adaptor.
mattheww50
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: AC specks around the globe?
Australia is 240V/50Hz nominal.
There are only a handful of places outside North America that are 60Hz. Parts of Japan (that's right, 'parts', generally the areas that were electrified prior to WWII are 50Hz/220V, postwar is mostly 60Hz/100V (yes 100V). Many Japanese electric timers have two sets of markings, one for 60Hz, one for 50Hz.
Korea is largely 60Hz, as is the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia, and the one small Island in Bahrain that gets power from the Saudi's.
Other key differences have to do with neutral, grounding and fusing. In the UK, plugs contain fuses, generally branch circuits do not. In other words if you want to replace the light switch or fixture, you usually have to turn off power in the whole house!
In the US you are assured that Neutral and Ground are connected no further away then the building service entrance. A neutral voltage of more than 1 or 2 volts indicates a serious wireing problem. Outside the USA, Neutral may not be connected to ground any closer then the power plant. This can make autotransformers uniquely hazardous, since the neutral side may be far above ground potential.
The Australians are paraoid about large single phase loads.
You want to install a 3 ton central A/C unit (residential central air in Australia is pretty rare), you need local government approval, as a result many devices that are single phase in the USA, exist as single and 3 phase elswhere in the world.
For devices like Air conditioners, there are indeed significant technical advantages to running them with 3 phase motors (which is why it is almost impossible to find a single phase motor in the USA larger than about 1 1/2 hp).
Line voltages in Malaysia, Kuwait and the UK are often a good deal higher than spec. The usualy manifestation is the failure of wide range switching supplies. The duty cycle regulators have trouble coping with 260V....
Australia is 240V/50Hz nominal.
There are only a handful of places outside North America that are 60Hz. Parts of Japan (that's right, 'parts', generally the areas that were electrified prior to WWII are 50Hz/220V, postwar is mostly 60Hz/100V (yes 100V). Many Japanese electric timers have two sets of markings, one for 60Hz, one for 50Hz.
Korea is largely 60Hz, as is the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia, and the one small Island in Bahrain that gets power from the Saudi's.
Other key differences have to do with neutral, grounding and fusing. In the UK, plugs contain fuses, generally branch circuits do not. In other words if you want to replace the light switch or fixture, you usually have to turn off power in the whole house!
In the US you are assured that Neutral and Ground are connected no further away then the building service entrance. A neutral voltage of more than 1 or 2 volts indicates a serious wireing problem. Outside the USA, Neutral may not be connected to ground any closer then the power plant. This can make autotransformers uniquely hazardous, since the neutral side may be far above ground potential.
The Australians are paraoid about large single phase loads.
You want to install a 3 ton central A/C unit (residential central air in Australia is pretty rare), you need local government approval, as a result many devices that are single phase in the USA, exist as single and 3 phase elswhere in the world.
For devices like Air conditioners, there are indeed significant technical advantages to running them with 3 phase motors (which is why it is almost impossible to find a single phase motor in the USA larger than about 1 1/2 hp).
Line voltages in Malaysia, Kuwait and the UK are often a good deal higher than spec. The usualy manifestation is the failure of wide range switching supplies. The duty cycle regulators have trouble coping with 260V....
Re: AC specks around the globe?
Matheww50,
I have never lived anywhere in the UK (and I've lived in lots of different places here) where I wasn't able to isolate lights, sockets etc. either upstairs or downstairs by either tripping a circuit breaker or removing a fuse from a central control box - no need to switch everything off. It's true that all appliance plugs are supposed to be fused correctly within the UK but this is as additional protection.
Matheww50,
I have never lived anywhere in the UK (and I've lived in lots of different places here) where I wasn't able to isolate lights, sockets etc. either upstairs or downstairs by either tripping a circuit breaker or removing a fuse from a central control box - no need to switch everything off. It's true that all appliance plugs are supposed to be fused correctly within the UK but this is as additional protection.
Billson
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: AC specks around the globe?
[ QUOTE ]
14C said:
JSB here you go:
Specs by Country
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't trust the info on this link very much. It lists my country's voltage at 110. Our voltage has been 220 for as long as I can remember.
[ QUOTE ]
14C said:
JSB here you go:
Specs by Country
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't trust the info on this link very much. It lists my country's voltage at 110. Our voltage has been 220 for as long as I can remember.
mattheww50
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: AC specks around the globe?
SEveral comments.
In the UK, in most residences, there is a breaker/fuse at the servic entrance for the entire building, and that is it unless you have electric applliances 'hardwired' (A rarity in the UK).
The only way to safely replace a switch, outlet, install an appliance, or replace a fixture is to shut off the power at the service entrance.
In some countries like Japan, Korea, Saudi ARabia and I suspect the Philipines, what you get depends upon where you are (and who built) . For example, The Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia is 120V/60Hz, but I defy you to find a US style outlet, and 120V/60Hz anywhere else in the Kingdom! (in other words Dhahran, Jubail etc are US style, Riyad, Jeddah, Medina, Mecca etc are NOT).You can thank the big US engineering/construction company, Bechtel, for that one.
Korea is listed as 220V/60Hz. Most of Seoul is in fact 120V/60hz.
While Hong Kong is quoted as 200V, it isn't, and hasn't been for about a decade. It went from 200 to 220-240V in the 1990's. 200 Volts made them unique and so you needed HOng Kong versions of just about everything. The change to the world defacto standard made Hong Kong able to use the same appliances being mass produced everywhere else in the world.
Lots of light bulbs burned out in the first few months, but that was about all that happened. In the Philipines, I suspect that the areas near where the US had a large presence such as near Subic Bay and Clark AFB are largely 120V/60hz. My recollection is my Hotel in Manila in March was 120V/60Hz. Where the Americans built the infrastructure, you will find 120V/60Hz power.
SEveral comments.
In the UK, in most residences, there is a breaker/fuse at the servic entrance for the entire building, and that is it unless you have electric applliances 'hardwired' (A rarity in the UK).
The only way to safely replace a switch, outlet, install an appliance, or replace a fixture is to shut off the power at the service entrance.
In some countries like Japan, Korea, Saudi ARabia and I suspect the Philipines, what you get depends upon where you are (and who built) . For example, The Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia is 120V/60Hz, but I defy you to find a US style outlet, and 120V/60Hz anywhere else in the Kingdom! (in other words Dhahran, Jubail etc are US style, Riyad, Jeddah, Medina, Mecca etc are NOT).You can thank the big US engineering/construction company, Bechtel, for that one.
Korea is listed as 220V/60Hz. Most of Seoul is in fact 120V/60hz.
While Hong Kong is quoted as 200V, it isn't, and hasn't been for about a decade. It went from 200 to 220-240V in the 1990's. 200 Volts made them unique and so you needed HOng Kong versions of just about everything. The change to the world defacto standard made Hong Kong able to use the same appliances being mass produced everywhere else in the world.
Lots of light bulbs burned out in the first few months, but that was about all that happened. In the Philipines, I suspect that the areas near where the US had a large presence such as near Subic Bay and Clark AFB are largely 120V/60hz. My recollection is my Hotel in Manila in March was 120V/60Hz. Where the Americans built the infrastructure, you will find 120V/60Hz power.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
Re: AC specks around the globe?
Single-phase 110V power is disgustingly inefficient for large loads such as motors larger than fractional horsepower - at least those tend to be 240V for residential/light commercial units.
Many commercial installations in the US tend to get 3-phase feeds, which they split for 110V loads for greater energy efficiency. It's lots of fun if a neutral drops - voltage across legs can instantaneously double.
Earth grounds are auniversal feature of receptacles in the US, and ancreasingly common in electrical devices.
Line voltage in the US is prone to wandering quite a bit from nominal 110V - I've heard of instances from 90V to 150V.
Single-phase 110V power is disgustingly inefficient for large loads such as motors larger than fractional horsepower - at least those tend to be 240V for residential/light commercial units.
Many commercial installations in the US tend to get 3-phase feeds, which they split for 110V loads for greater energy efficiency. It's lots of fun if a neutral drops - voltage across legs can instantaneously double.
Earth grounds are auniversal feature of receptacles in the US, and ancreasingly common in electrical devices.
Line voltage in the US is prone to wandering quite a bit from nominal 110V - I've heard of instances from 90V to 150V.
Billson
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: AC specks around the globe?
110v is usually an available option in places like hotels because tourists may have phone chargers, shavers, laptops, hair dryers, etc. that operate at 110v. Otherwise, all electrical appliances made and sold here are 220v. We usually have to use a transformer if we bought any appliances from the US for example. Now that I think about it, all appliances I've gotten from the US uses 110v. Is this the US standard? Why is this not standardized all over the world? What are the differences and advantages of one over the other?
110v is usually an available option in places like hotels because tourists may have phone chargers, shavers, laptops, hair dryers, etc. that operate at 110v. Otherwise, all electrical appliances made and sold here are 220v. We usually have to use a transformer if we bought any appliances from the US for example. Now that I think about it, all appliances I've gotten from the US uses 110v. Is this the US standard? Why is this not standardized all over the world? What are the differences and advantages of one over the other?
Re: AC specks around the globe?
As far as I know, the only advantage of 110V is safety.
Electrical shock of 220V is much severe than 110V.
As far as I know, the only advantage of 110V is safety.
Electrical shock of 220V is much severe than 110V.
mattheww50
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: AC specks around the globe?
110V is very unattractive for large loads, many hot water pots outside the USA have higher power draws then are permitted in the USA. In Australia, you can plug an electric dryer into a standard outlet. No problem drawing 2.5Kw.
60Hz is more attractive then 50hz. The weight of the iron core in things like transformers and motors is inversely proportional to frequency. It is no wonder that aircraft use 400Hz. Only takes 12% of the iron that 50Hz needs.
Line losses are I^2R, so if you have a 1 ohm resistance inside the house branch circuit, a 10 amp load (1100 watts),
will dissipate 100 watts in the wiring. If deliver that same 1100 watts at 220V, the same 1 ohm resistance in the branch circuit only dissipates 25 watts.
Sockets, voltages and electrical codes are not standardized for the same reason that railroad tracks aren't standard world wide, or car's aren't (a large portion of the world drives on the left and steers from the right). Everybody is convinced their standard is better than anyone elses.
110V is very unattractive for large loads, many hot water pots outside the USA have higher power draws then are permitted in the USA. In Australia, you can plug an electric dryer into a standard outlet. No problem drawing 2.5Kw.
60Hz is more attractive then 50hz. The weight of the iron core in things like transformers and motors is inversely proportional to frequency. It is no wonder that aircraft use 400Hz. Only takes 12% of the iron that 50Hz needs.
Line losses are I^2R, so if you have a 1 ohm resistance inside the house branch circuit, a 10 amp load (1100 watts),
will dissipate 100 watts in the wiring. If deliver that same 1100 watts at 220V, the same 1 ohm resistance in the branch circuit only dissipates 25 watts.
Sockets, voltages and electrical codes are not standardized for the same reason that railroad tracks aren't standard world wide, or car's aren't (a large portion of the world drives on the left and steers from the right). Everybody is convinced their standard is better than anyone elses.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
Re: AC specks around the globe?
I'd hazard a guess that 110V is a residential standard in the US simply because it was developed in the early days of electrification, and it was a compromise between the capabilities of equipment of the day and efficiency.
It's not uncommon to see service up to 30A on 110V circuits - I think 30A 110V is common on electric dryers and 40A 110V is typical for electric cooktops (likely the highest-powered 110V electric appliances out there). Air conditioning compressors and ventillation systems are 220/240 or greater. I don't know that 3-phase power is all that common in residential service.
I'd hazard a guess that 110V is a residential standard in the US simply because it was developed in the early days of electrification, and it was a compromise between the capabilities of equipment of the day and efficiency.
It's not uncommon to see service up to 30A on 110V circuits - I think 30A 110V is common on electric dryers and 40A 110V is typical for electric cooktops (likely the highest-powered 110V electric appliances out there). Air conditioning compressors and ventillation systems are 220/240 or greater. I don't know that 3-phase power is all that common in residential service.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
Re: AC specks around the globe?
[ QUOTE ]
mattheww50 said:
(a large portion of the world drives on the left and steers from the right). Everybody is convinced their standard is better than anyone elses.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a reason that most of the world drives on the left - it depends on whether the area was established, colonized, etc during the gun age.
If you're a traveler in pre-gun times, odds are you're right-handed and carry your sword on your left hip. In order to be ready to engage a bandit, you'll want to pass oncoming traffic on the left, so you can ready your sword if need be (and if they try to grab it, you'll have time to react).
If you're traveling with a gun, you'll likely carry a gun on your right hip (or shoulder), and the opposite rules apply.
[ QUOTE ]
mattheww50 said:
(a large portion of the world drives on the left and steers from the right). Everybody is convinced their standard is better than anyone elses.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a reason that most of the world drives on the left - it depends on whether the area was established, colonized, etc during the gun age.
If you're a traveler in pre-gun times, odds are you're right-handed and carry your sword on your left hip. In order to be ready to engage a bandit, you'll want to pass oncoming traffic on the left, so you can ready your sword if need be (and if they try to grab it, you'll have time to react).
If you're traveling with a gun, you'll likely carry a gun on your right hip (or shoulder), and the opposite rules apply.
Re: AC specks around the globe?
Matheww50,
Not sure where you're getting your information about the UK from but, as someone who has lived here (UK) for almost 50 years, I can categorically state that it is wrong. My current house (which is typical) has a distribution box inside the house with a main power switch and ten circuit breakers which can be used to safely isolate various ring-mains around the house. Even 15 years ago when circuit breakers where not as common in the UK, all of the various ring-mains (sockets, lighting, cooking etc) had their own individual fuses inside the house. Hotels may be different but almost all domestic accommodation is definitely as I have described.
Matheww50,
Not sure where you're getting your information about the UK from but, as someone who has lived here (UK) for almost 50 years, I can categorically state that it is wrong. My current house (which is typical) has a distribution box inside the house with a main power switch and ten circuit breakers which can be used to safely isolate various ring-mains around the house. Even 15 years ago when circuit breakers where not as common in the UK, all of the various ring-mains (sockets, lighting, cooking etc) had their own individual fuses inside the house. Hotels may be different but almost all domestic accommodation is definitely as I have described.
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: AC specks around the globe?
From what I understand, Spotlight is correct... But notice he spoke of "ring-mains". As I understand, in the UK they basically feed every wall socket from two sides--i.e., a circuit breaker on the left and another on the right. Therefore, if you have a 15 amp breaker in each, you have 30 amps available at the socket (assuming both sides of the ring are good).
And that is the reason for the requirement for a fused plug to limit the maximum current to 15 (edit: may be 13 amps maximum?) amps maximum. And why, if you are used to flipping only one breaker one breaker off, you would still see the power on in your branch circuit. You need to turn off the ring-main breaker pairs to isolate a branch circuit.
John, you did not mention why you where asking the AC power question--but if you are looking to sell chargers (as an example) around the world--the standard I usually designed to was:
<ul type="square">[*]15 amps maximum input current (although I would try for 10 amps maximum--i.e., 950 watts maximum input)
[*]Power factor corrected (i.e., don't use a diode bridge charging input caps for electronic supplies anymore--although, you probably can get away with small wattage supplies--I don't remember the spec limit--check the IEC requirements for Europe).
[*]Unit operates on 95-264 VAC 50/60 Hz. There are dual voltage type units that work from 100-130 and 18-240--but they can blow up (pop a fuse) if operated in the 135-180 volt range--they are legal, but I would avoid them if can and get the wide range type that work in the whole range from 95-264 VAC. PFC (power factor corrected) supplies almost always meet the wide range specs.
[*]Look for units that use IEC type power cords. They are readily available and limit your liability. And worst comes to worst, the customer can cut the end off and put on their own plug (can't do that with integrated wall warts/plugs).
[*]Avoid internal fuses that are not easily customer replaceable--or at least make sure that fuses are at least 2x the expected current input rating (typically at 95 VAC). A smaller fuse may protect the unit from damage--but if nobody can replace the fuse locally, then the unit is still dead.
[*] Make sure that the units are UL or CSA (or other NRTL approved for North America) and are, at least CE approved for Europe--that will be accepted from most countries at customs (assuming that you are exporting only a few units at a time).
[*]Make sure the units are "double insulated" / SELV output(s) and don't require a ground wire for safety.
[*]Recommend FCC/CE class B emissions (home use), although Class A should be OK (and cheaper) too.
[*]Use a good vendor and make them responsible for all of the above--you don't want to get into this yourself unless you have a good market or high volume. You should be able to get off-the-shelf units that meet the above requirements (for example, if you want world power in and 12 VDC out (SELV--Safety Extra Low Voltage) to a charging station).
[/list]
Well, the above list should be a good start on your requirements--if this was the question you wanted answered.
-Bill
edit to add 13 amp disclaimer
From what I understand, Spotlight is correct... But notice he spoke of "ring-mains". As I understand, in the UK they basically feed every wall socket from two sides--i.e., a circuit breaker on the left and another on the right. Therefore, if you have a 15 amp breaker in each, you have 30 amps available at the socket (assuming both sides of the ring are good).
And that is the reason for the requirement for a fused plug to limit the maximum current to 15 (edit: may be 13 amps maximum?) amps maximum. And why, if you are used to flipping only one breaker one breaker off, you would still see the power on in your branch circuit. You need to turn off the ring-main breaker pairs to isolate a branch circuit.
John, you did not mention why you where asking the AC power question--but if you are looking to sell chargers (as an example) around the world--the standard I usually designed to was:
<ul type="square">[*]15 amps maximum input current (although I would try for 10 amps maximum--i.e., 950 watts maximum input)
[*]Power factor corrected (i.e., don't use a diode bridge charging input caps for electronic supplies anymore--although, you probably can get away with small wattage supplies--I don't remember the spec limit--check the IEC requirements for Europe).
[*]Unit operates on 95-264 VAC 50/60 Hz. There are dual voltage type units that work from 100-130 and 18-240--but they can blow up (pop a fuse) if operated in the 135-180 volt range--they are legal, but I would avoid them if can and get the wide range type that work in the whole range from 95-264 VAC. PFC (power factor corrected) supplies almost always meet the wide range specs.
[*]Look for units that use IEC type power cords. They are readily available and limit your liability. And worst comes to worst, the customer can cut the end off and put on their own plug (can't do that with integrated wall warts/plugs).
[*]Avoid internal fuses that are not easily customer replaceable--or at least make sure that fuses are at least 2x the expected current input rating (typically at 95 VAC). A smaller fuse may protect the unit from damage--but if nobody can replace the fuse locally, then the unit is still dead.
[*] Make sure that the units are UL or CSA (or other NRTL approved for North America) and are, at least CE approved for Europe--that will be accepted from most countries at customs (assuming that you are exporting only a few units at a time).
[*]Make sure the units are "double insulated" / SELV output(s) and don't require a ground wire for safety.
[*]Recommend FCC/CE class B emissions (home use), although Class A should be OK (and cheaper) too.
[*]Use a good vendor and make them responsible for all of the above--you don't want to get into this yourself unless you have a good market or high volume. You should be able to get off-the-shelf units that meet the above requirements (for example, if you want world power in and 12 VDC out (SELV--Safety Extra Low Voltage) to a charging station).
[/list]
Well, the above list should be a good start on your requirements--if this was the question you wanted answered.
-Bill
edit to add 13 amp disclaimer
Re: AC specks around the globe?
Bill,
Interesting info in your post. Although I don't fully understand the technicalities of wiring UK houses, I can fully isolate all my downstairs sockets, for example, by just popping a single circuit breaker. I have never heard of the "socket fed from two sides" idea (but, of course, I might be completely wrong) and that tends to be supported by my quick check where I only needed to pop one circuit breaker.
Bill,
Interesting info in your post. Although I don't fully understand the technicalities of wiring UK houses, I can fully isolate all my downstairs sockets, for example, by just popping a single circuit breaker. I have never heard of the "socket fed from two sides" idea (but, of course, I might be completely wrong) and that tends to be supported by my quick check where I only needed to pop one circuit breaker.
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