Angled ~4000K hCRI mule

[PaladinNO]

Are there any angled ~4000K (18650 or 21700) hCRI mule options, other than the Fireflies PL47MU?

Fireflies PL47MU

I ordered one of the above model with "Nichia E21A 3800K mix" earlier, and am very, VERY happy with it. Ordered another two identical lights over 5 weeks ago, and haven't heard a word despite multiple update request emails.

So I am now looking elsewhere for something similar. But it MUST be around 4000K - I have compared the E21A 3800K mix to E21A 3500K (Emisar Noctigon K9.3 - too yellow) and 4500K (Emisar DT8K - too cold). The intended recipient agrees.

I would also prefer something with a simple UI. It is meant to be a gift to someone who I know will only want 2 modes - On and Off - but Anduril works if that makes an alternative easier to find. I can just set the light "just so" before I hand it over.

The light is meant as a close-up detail inspection work light. Hence the desire for a mule.

EDIT:
I am considering the Emisar DW4 dual-channel (E21A 3500K + E21A 4500K), and run both channels simultaneously, but I have doubts.

 

[sim1tti]

EDIT:
I am considering the Emisar DW4 dual-channel (E21A 3500K + E21A 4500K), and run both channels simultaneously, but I have doubts.

I have a DW4 mule in 519a 4000k. Has the boost driver for better runtimes.

Very bright, wide, and even. Wonderful color rendering. A little bit of green tint towardsthe edge of flood, but not really discernible in practice.

As a work light, the biggest downside is that it's quite heavy with an 18650. You'll always know it's there. An 18350 tube is available to make it smaller/lighter, but runtime suffers and it's still kind of heavy. The head has a lot of mass.

Second downside is that Anduril UI has a steep learning curve, and the color aux lights are kind of annoying unless you configure them, imo. I find Anduril too complex for memory and need to program when having acces to a refernce sheet.

For a long time now I've been wishing Zebra would bring back 18650 mules in warm tints. Those things are light, durable, efficient, and the UI is much less frivolous.

For close up work, I tend to lean on a Zebra AA mule. The weight alone negates any perceived downsides, though the DW4 is very nice when a truly bright flood is in order.

 

[PaladinNO]

@sim1tti
Thank you for your reply. I sent an email to Hank (Emisar / intl-outdoor) yesterday to ask him directly about options.
Looking at the DW4 E21A vs 519A here:


...the E21A is definitely what I'm after.

Weight is a good point. If you can put your DW4 on a scale I'll do the same with my PL47MU, and we can compare notes?

As for Anduril...yeah, I still only understand the basics. And I'll definitely press 7 times from Off to cycle the aux LEDs until disabled in this case.
As for output, the PL47MU is listed as max 2500 Lumen (don't have any measuring tools for this), but I'm guessing 300-500 Lumen is where the light will live most of its life.

 

[sim1tti]

@sim1tti
If you can put your DW4 on a scale I'll do the same with my PL47MU, and we can compare notes?

88.15g with out the battery. 135.4g including an 18650. The head alone comes in at 52.7g.

As for output, the PL47MU is listed as max 2500 Lumen (don't have any measuring tools for this), but I'm guessing 300-500 Lumen is where the light will live most of its life.

Zero air did a review of both a PL47 and a D4V2 (pretty much a DW4 w/o the angle). Shows the PL47 runs longer and brighter, but the Emisar regulation is better. Fireflies super output drops off the shelf almost immediately, but still stays high.

Hank is on it. The mule version requires a special request. I felt the 8 or 16 white emitters were giving demised returns and I was prioritizing efficiency. 4 gets hot quickly enough and is plenty bright, even with the boost driver. There is actually utility to the aux lights if you're willing to brave the Advanced UI mode.

 

[PaladinNO]

88.15g with out the battery. 135.4g including an 18650. The head alone comes in at 52.7g.

Thank you. And it seems I need a better scale - mine doesn't have decimals.
The PL47MU is 71g without the battery. 139g with a Samsung 40T 21700. The head alone is 41g.
EDIT:
Mine has an optional magnet in the tailcap, which adds a few grams.
/EDIT

An angled light is what I'm after, and I know that sadly limits the options.

I was hoping not having to do a full custom light (since the Fireflies PL47MU is perfect...had it been available) to save on the cost.
But if it comes to that, I'll do the full custom for myself, and give the PL47MU away as the gift.

And no, I am not brave enough for the Advanced Anduril UI. The basic is plenty. ^^

 

[sim1tti]

The heart wants what the heart wants.

It seems the Fireflies with the 21700 is just as heavy, so it doesn't sound like the weight will bother you.

....Just looked at that Reddit thread. It's worth mentioning that my light has 519a emitters are all 4k and the tint doesn't look as warm as that guy's 4/4 Nichia model. The one I have is very neutral, only slightly warm.

Have fun!

 

[PaladinNO]

Just got word back from Hank:

I'm afraid we do not have 21700 angled flashlight.
We only have DW4 angled, 18650 flashlight.
It does have 8*519A domed LED option.

There is also the dual channel E21A option.

I am a bit confused about the response - I thought he / Hank / intl-outdoor also did fully custom lights? Obviously at a premium price.
I specifically asked about a ~4000K hCRI mule, preferably 21700, and partly expected a "I / we can make you one" in the response.

Only recently dove into the rabbit hole that is custom lights, and I am still finding my way to where I can best get my fixes. Am at least starting to learn what I want. But from the little I have googled so far, clearly this hole is deeper than I thought. ^^

Oh well, it seems the only - at least easiest - option is the E21A DW4 then. I don't think Fireflies will fix their s**t at this point.

EDIT:
I just tested my Noctigon E21A 3500K together with the DT8K E21A 4500K...and as a mixed light, from the little testing I just did, the tint / colour rendering seemed pretty much identical to the E21A "3800K mix" from the PL47MU.

The PL47MU is 91mm, and feels a bit short in my hand. I see the DW4 is listed at 113mm, so it should be a bit better to hold.
I think I will have to reply back to Hank with what one of those E21A mules from the Reddit thread costs. 16x chips sounds like overkill in therms of output power, when the 9x in the PL47MU is already plenty.

 

[defloyd77]

There's also the option of dedomed 5700K or a 5700K and 4500K dedomed mixed which should increase efficiency and reduce heat over the E21A and still look great IMO.

 

[sim1tti]

Just got word back from Hank:

I'm afraid we do not have 21700 angled flashlight.
We only have DW4 angled, 18650 flashlight.
It does have 8*519A domed LED option.

There is also the dual channel E21A option.

I am a bit confused about the response - I thought he / Hank / intl-outdoor also did fully custom lights? Obviously at a premium price.
I specifically asked about a ~4000K hCRI mule, preferably 21700, and partly expected a "I / we can make you one" in the response.

Not sure they ever really did angled 21700 lights, but the Dual channel E21A option he references is probably what you're looking for. Try asking him specifically if he can make you a dual channel DW4 mule with 8 emitters, 4x E21 3500k and 4x E21 4500k. You can also ask him if he can do that combo without the dual channel firmware (I'm not sure). But regardless, be warned––that light will more or less require you to delve into the UI a bit more than you're accustomed to. All those white emitters isn't exactly what the firmware is designed for.

Bottom line is that you're better off getting very specific about what you want with Hank rather than asking him to prescribe you something. He'll say yes or no. Showing him the pic of that reddit guy's 8XE21 combo mule may help, but also recognize that the reddit user you referenced is doing a lot of his own custom modding. Pretty advanced stuff.

It's also possible that Hank is not offering as much customization as he once did. That is the trend that most custom makers (of anything) tend to follow once they reach capacity with standard offerings.

You could also check out something like JLHawaii to see what mods they're doing, or willing to do.

There's also the option of dedomed 5700K or a 5700K and 4500K dedomed mixed which should increase efficiency and reduce heat over the E21A and still look great IMO.

5700k dedomed 519a emitters are rosey and still reasonably neutral white, but domed anything lower gets heavily tinted (still high cri though). May not be great for intended application. Dedoming also makes for a more spotty throw, which, while not detrimental, may not be the best option for a mule. Still could make a beutiful boutique light.

edit: clarity

 

[defloyd77]

Not sure they ever really did 21700 lights, but the Dual channel E21A option he references is probably what you're looking for. Try asking him specifically if he can make you a dual channel DW4 mule with 8 emitters, 4x E21 3500k and 4x E21 4500k. You can also ask him if he can do that combo without the dual channel firmware (I'm not sure). But regardless, be warned––that light will more or less require you to delve into the UI a bit more than you're accustomed to. All those white emitters isn't exactly what the firmware is designed for.

Bottom line is that you're better off getting very specific about what you want with Hank rather than asking him to prescribe you something. He'll say yes or no. Showing him the pic of that reddit guy's 8XE21 combo mule may help, but also recognize that the reddit user you referenced is doing a lot of his own custom modding. Pretty advanced stuff.

It's also possible that Hank is not offering as much customization as he once did. That is the trend that most custom makers (of anything) tend to follow once they reach capacity with standard offerings.

You could also check out something like JLHawaii to see what mods they're doing, or willing to do.


5700k dedomed 519a emitters are rosey and still reasonably neutral white, but domed anything lower gets heavily tinted (still high cri though). May not be great for intended application. Dedoming also makes for a more spotty throw, which, while not detrimental, may not be the best option for a mule. Still could make a beutiful boutique light.

edit: clarity

Dedoming only makes for a spotty throw if there's reflectors/optics, otherwise it'd technically be more floody than a domed LED with bare LEDs. I don't have any mixed dedomed 519A lights, but have the E21A mix PL47MU and a D4V2 mule with the 5700K 519A dedomed, the E21A mix has a much heavier tint (lower DUV). Both beams are beautiful though.

EDIT: I totally forgot to mention, domed 519As aren't an option for Hank's mules, there isn't enough clearance between the dome and the lens.

 

[sim1tti]

Dedoming only makes for a spotty throw if there's reflectors/optics, otherwise it'd technically be more floody than a domed LED with bare LEDs. I don't have any mixed dedomed 519A lights, but have the E21A mix PL47MU and a D4V2 mule with the 5700K 519A dedomed, the E21A mix has a much heavier tint (lower DUV). Both beams are beautiful though.

Would love to see some pics of the light that comes out of them. If you ever feel inclined, please tag me.

 

[defloyd77]

Would love to see some pics of the light that comes out of them. If you ever feel inclined, please tag me.

I'll try, but I can never seem to get a camera to replicate what my eyes see in real life.

 

[sim1tti]

I'll try, but I can never seem to get a camera to replicate what my eyes see in real life.

Always an issue. For me personally, I have a dedomed 519a 5700k light and so would have a good control for comparison if you include yours. But still, auto white balance settings are the real problem. If your camera allows it, setting the white balance manually to 5000k is a good way to have a consistent rendering for comparing beam tints.

You're certainly not obliged. Just if you ever do, let me know

 

[defloyd77]

Always an issue. For me personally, I have a dedomed 519a 5700k light and so would have a good control for comparison if you include yours. But still, auto white balance settings are the real problem. If your camera allows it, setting the white balance manually to 5000k is a good way to have a consistent rendering for comparing beam tints.

You're certainly not obliged. Just if you ever do, let me know

That's the problem, these smart phone cameras try to appeal to the average person, so they make them simpler and automatic everything, making it difficult or impossible for those who want manual control. I'm sure there's a third party app that allows for manual control, but I try to keep my app downloads minimal and from known companies.

 

[PaladinNO]

Try asking him specifically if he can make you a dual channel DW4 mule with 8 emitters, 4x E21 3500k and 4x E21 4500k. You can also ask him if he can do that combo without the dual channel firmware (I'm not sure). But regardless, be warned––that light will more or less require you to delve into the UI a bit more than you're accustomed to. All those white emitters isn't exactly what the firmware is designed for.

Bottom line is that you're better off getting very specific about what you want with Hank rather than asking him to prescribe you something. He'll say yes or no. Showing him the pic of that reddit guy's 8XE21 combo mule may help, but also recognize that the reddit user you referenced is doing a lot of his own custom modding. Pretty advanced stuff.

I've already replied back to Hank, and showed him the Reddit thread I linked to above. Also said I don't need 16 LEDs.
I also asked about auxiliary LEDs (as one light is for a friend, and I know he will want that), but that's a bonus and something I'm easily ready to sacrifice.

Problem is, I don't know exactly what to ask for when I don't know what is possible to deliver. I have no experience with full customs, and I have given up trying to understand electronics on a component level (I've tried several times in my life, and my brain simply doesn't get a handle on it).

But a single-channel Emisar DW4 mule, with 8x Nichia E21A in a 4x 3500K + 4x 4500K configuration...yes, that sounds - on paper at least - perfect.
As for control (the Anduril control chart gave me a headache, but I'm learning by doing on my DT8K and K9.3), all I need in this case is ramping.

 

[sim1tti]

I bet he'll do it.

 

[sim1tti]

That's the problem, these smart phone cameras try to appeal to the average person, so they make them simpler and automatic everything, making it difficult or impossible for those who want manual control. I'm sure there's a third party app that allows for manual control, but I try to keep my app downloads minimal and from known companies.

So true. A camera with a manual white balance setting is necessary for comparisons and the phone cameras don't have em.

 

[AstroTurf]

zebralight... one of my favorites.

https://www.zebralight.com/H604c-18650-XHP502-Flood-4000K-High-CRI-Headlamp_p_223.html

 

[PaladinNO]

zebralight... one of my favorites.

https://www.zebralight.com/H604c-18650-XHP502-Flood-4000K-High-CRI-Headlamp_p_223.html

Says "unavailable" in the link, but it looks interesting. Where can the H604c be purchased, with international shipping and with a reasonable price?
Not a single Zebralight is available locally.

 

[AstroTurf]

Says "unavailable" in the link, but it looks interesting. Where can the H604c be purchased, with international shipping and with a reasonable price?
Not a single Zebralight is available locally.

the bay perhaps or that river?