Any 18650 FAQs? Ferrari/Toyota/Kia versions?

[moses]

OK, I'm coming late to the 18650 party. But wanting to get three cells with a charger. Prefer to be on a budget hence, my questions. I've done a search and read various threads but there's a ton out there.

Wondering if there's a FAQ on these cells.

Basically my questions:

1. What is the top of the line, max capacity, protected, most reliable, cost no object 18650 cells? In automobile terms, the Ferrari of 18650s. (OK, maybe Ferrari's aren't that reliable but you get the idea....)

2. What's the equivalent of the Toyota/Lexus line? Solid, good capacity, reliable, safe. Not cheapest but great bang for hte buck.

3. What's the Kia version? (No offense intended to Kia owners.) Cheaper but still relatively reliable.


4. What's a budget charger that won't over or under charge? Long charge time no problem - just have to be trustworthy without killing my cells.

Thanks,
Mo

 

[GilmoreD]

A good charger would have to be this one - http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1251 although you can find it for a better price AND get the 12 volt cig plug as well.

Top of the line Batteries would be AW's - http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=170420 Make sure you're getting Protected Cells.

Secondary would be Ultrafires - http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1213

Dave

 

[mdocod]

Ferrari: Pila 600P
Toyota: AW 18650, Wolf-Eyes LRB-168A
Kia: Ultrafire, Superfire, TrustFire, Tenergy, no-name blue generic etc 18650

Now it should also be pointed out that for unprotected cells for applications where they are appropriate, the good cells seem to be Panasonic, Sony, and LG.

In this case, I almost always recommend the toyota. AWs and Wolf-Eyes cells happen to have some of the BEST people in the business backing them up. (Mike over at PTS and AW our Forum member, both have proven themselves time and time again to CPFers with the best customer support, they back up their product and make that "toyota" purchase really worth every penny.) Pila cells are more rare but might be worth it to you if you really want every last itch of performance, they are definitely more pricey (like over $20 per cell last I checked) but have proven to be the *best* in testing.

 

[Fallingwater]

I've only owned cells of the Kia kind, but based on what data I've gotten from this board I think it goes more or less like this:

Ferrari - AW
Toyota - LG, Sony
Kia - the various SomethingFire cells sold on DealExtreme

 

[moses]

Thanks. Keep the opinions coming - especially about chargers or is there concensus on the charger? Seem to be pretty good concensus on the cells themselves....

Thanks,
Mo

 

[DM51]

I will dissent from the consensus, because I think people are being pretty unfair to the Kia here.

I don't know the car myself, but I assume it is a reasonably safe and reliable vehicle, even if it is cheap, under-powered, poorly equipped, uncomfortable or whatever.

If it is at least safe and reliable, I would not dream of ascribing to it a lack of redeeming features as dismal and complete as have been reported with Ultrafire 18650 cells.

They do not belong in the same category, and I am surprised to see that some people are recommending these cells. SilverFox reported serious problems with them in this thread, and there have been several other similar reports, including this one.

People would be well advised to avoid Ultrafire cells, and they should certainly not be recommended at all until there is good evidence that quality control and other issues with them have been addressed.

​

 

[mdocod]

Good point DM51, My wife drives a handed-down Kia Rio (from her father), it has ~115,000 miles on it, and not a single mechanical problem to date, we've changed fluids/filters/brake pads, put gas in it, and kept praying for a miracle (that the torque-less wonder will pull us out into traffic without getting us rear-ended!)

In the last decade the Korean cars have improved a lot. So maybe Kia isn't the best comparison. But I think we understand what the intension of the comparison was for and we can leave it be, lol. (The first few years Kia was selling cars in the states, those cars were utter disasters, much like UF cells)

 

[Groundhog66]

I use AW Protected exclusively, except in my HDS. I also love the inexpensive charger from AW, and Ultrafire WF-139.


Tim

 

[65535]

IMHO cells can be divided up in two ways, cells that work as listed, and have a strong customer support.

LG
Sony
Sanyo
Panasonic
AW
Pila
Wolf Eyes
etc.


Then there are cells to be avoided like the plague,
Unbranded blue cells
Trustfire
Ultrafire
etc.

AW has a strong customer base, operates on CPFMP has excellent customer service, and hes prices are great.

 

[Fallingwater]

I don't think WhateverFire cells should be "avoided like the plague".

They are considerably cheaper, so the occasional dud happens, but I believe the chances of getting a dud have been way overstated by the usual "nobody writes about cells that work well, everybody complains about those that don't" effect.

I have two Ultrafire protected 18650s and one blue unbranded unprotected (all from DX) which I use consistently with no problems. The unbranded one powers my modified mp3 player for hours and hours.

If you want only the best then they aren't for you; if you're cash-strapped and know what you're getting they are very good value for money.

Be careful about how and where you charge them (which you should do with any LiIon cell, even premium brand), and you've nothing to fear.

 

[mdocod]

I don't think WhateverFire cells should be "avoided like the plague".

They are considerably cheaper, so the occasional dud happens,

replace the word "dud" with "powerful chemically fueled metal fire with toxic off-gases"

You pay more for good cells not because the cheap cell is GOING to explode, but because you want to have the lowest possible risk of the event happening in your home.

 

[koala]

AW - Price and reliability of a Toyota, and performance of a Ferarri. How can you go wrong with AW? His cells are purpose made for flashlights, not just LEDs but also for high current applications.

OT - In terms of reliability of cars nowadays, I find most brands are pretty reliable.

 

[Fallingwater]

replace the word "dud" with "powerful chemically fueled metal fire with toxic off-gases"

No, I actually mean "dud" as in "doesn't work".

LiIon cells, even low quality ones, are surprisingly unlikely to go up in flames if used correctly. Those that do are usually a result of overcharging and short-circuiting.

What usually happens if you have the bad luck of getting a dud is that the cell comes overdischarged (and thus ruined).

 

[NeonJohn]

I don't think WhateverFire cells should be "avoided like the plague".

They are considerably cheaper, so the occasional dud happens, but I believe the chances of getting a dud have been way overstated by the usual "nobody writes about cells that work well, everybody complains about those that don't" effect.

I'm with you on that one. I have about 8 or 9 "blue no name" unprotected 18650s and at least that many LIR123s from first qualitychinagoods.com and then DX. I also have several of their little $6 trickle chargers.

The oldest are over 2 years old. The newest probably a year. One LIR123 went high resistance but other than that they're getting the job done and that's all I really care about. My 18650-based hotrod LED flashlight is my constant companion that I use enough to change batteries every couple of days.

Yeah, I have a safe place to charge 'em (old cast iron laundry sink) but ANY large Li cell would go there to be charged regardless of the price.

If one erupts someday and fries my flashlight, well, no big deal. I'll just get another and still be dollars ahead.

I just can't see spending $10-20 per cell when the $3 cell does what I need.

John