any development in UK's knife ban?

[twl]

The idea that the UK is even considering doing this, or actually doing it, is bad enough.

To think that any UK subject thinks that this is a good idea, is beyond words.

 

[270winchester]

The idea that the UK is even considering doing this, or actually doing it, is bad enough.

To think that any UK subject thinks that this is a good idea, is beyond words.

the ironic part is, all the CPFers from Uk who discuss lights here are probably considered anti-social gadget freaks by their fellow countrymen who make fun of them behind their backs for being "scared of the dark", they are most likely dismissed by their friends, family and coworkers as overly paranoid, after all what would a innocent person walk around with a Surefire for, considering they can inflict great bodily damage to others, plus there are street lights and all the buildings in the UK are lit so there should be no need for fhalshlights period. It is probably som inadquecy in the English CPFers' eye sight to compell them to pursue photon emitting devices, no?. Don't you know that only thieves and criminals would need flashlights to look in dark places where they are not supposed to look in.

And here they are looking down on people who own knives and firearms.

Do you know why I carry a knife? I have used my Emerson to cut my stuck seat belt when I was T-boned by an SUV, and my car was catching on fire, and it bursted into flames a few minutes after I got out and ten minutes before any police or fire trucks arrived on scene. if I did not have my knife on me I would be dead.

My earliest recollection of firearms was when I was 5, during the Loma Prieta earthquake, my dad and our neighbors worked to get the survivor out with their pistols holstered on their belt. The police were too busy with downtown to help us for a while. They had to draw their weapons to repel a roving gang of latino gang-bangers who were looking for a looting target. These men(my ad and neighbors) never harmed a human being in their life, and they saved lives with their tools. Ironically my dad was nearly killed a few years later in an accident where his car was struck by a Landrover on the passenger side.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

It may be useful to remember this quote from one of San Franciscos' finest ...

San Franciscos' finest what?

The rest of the post is so riddled with misconceptions that there is no time for them all. The first thing to be noted is that there were weapons long before there were weapons bans. Self defense and the willingness to carry and use weapons to protect ourselves and our families are folded deeply into human nature -- and there is probably nothing that will ever convince the poster of that.

The post would indicate that it is possible to just tell people to be good -- and they will. Of course no matter how many times UK citizens are told to be good, it doesn't work. They still have to have the Police, the Courts and yes, the Prisons, too. (Yes!! Even in the enlightened UK!! They dump all over their citizens right to defend themselves and they STILL have thugs that have to be dealt with the same way as the rest of our barbaric countries do.) And there do seem to be people in the UK's prisons who are there because they violated far more than just gun or knife laws.

While on the subject of prisons, how safe is it to be a prisoner in the UK? It is interesting to note that prisons are extreme elements of control. The prisoner is supposedly under the control of the state all the time -- 24 hours a day. They keep people locked up, often in one tiny cell. They tell them who they may see and when. they tell them what they may eat and when. The prisoner makes very few decisions for himself and has very few rights. According to some posting here, prisons should be the safest places in the UK. After all, prisons are thought to be the epitome of gun control. Regulation of knives in the UK's prisons is far more stringent than they are on the outside. And yet the knife is still the most popular weapon in the UK's prisons. Some posters may somehow not see this simple truth, although I can't see how. If their own government can imprison people, strip away very nearly all of their rights and keep them under lock and key AND ARE STILL UNABLE TO DISARM THEM ALL, why on earth do they believe that all of their fellow citizens, with jobs, money, cars, cell phones and total mobility will be totally disarmed just because some twits tell them that they should? HINT: It won't work. It has never worked. It will never work. It can't work. Even in the UK, people aren't built that way. Heck, y'all are on an island and you still can't make it work.

Come on, tell me how safe your prisons are! Tell me about how you've put a million restrictions on your prisoners that even your 'free' citizens would never put up with -- and TELL ME THAT THESE DRACONIAN MEASURES HAVE ELIMINATED KNIVES IN YOUR PRISONS.

So lets take all of the citizens everywhere and tell them that they may not posess any useful weapon that they may protect themselves and their families with, even though it is well known that even when nearly all rights and mobility and communications have been stripped from citizens -- some will still have knives and guns and continue to be a danger to the rest of the population. And that's going to be OK with you guys at Airstrip 1?

If a person feels that they and their family aren't worth defending, I don't have a problem with that. I would just hope that they have a quick run in with reality that takes them out of the gene pool before they have put those who feel that they are worth defending in any more danger than they already have.

 

[Datasaurusrex]

"Only the Shaun shall survive!"

"You can have my cricket bat when you pry it from my cold, dead, zombie fingers!"

 

[leduk]

Excellent film

There's another US citizien coming to Europe looking to bring stuff. Maybe you two can come together and look after each other?

other thread.

Cheers

 

[Kevin Tan]

Its not just happening in the UK, even Malaysia a former colony using the common law is in the same situation. Or taken to the extreme, Singapore, where they have a registry for knife owners.

Why would a pro banner who lives in a secure cctv guarded apartment worry about defending himself or his family? They are after all in a very secure place, right? Ever try to enter a secure goverment building thru the back door or the car multi level park entries? Pretty easy to do.

So what is a unarmed person to do if accosted in his supposedly secure home? Isnt breakins a regular occurange everywhere in the world?

 

[Datasaurusrex]

So what is a unarmed person to do if accosted in his supposedly secure home? Isnt breakins a regular occurange everywhere in the world?

Suffer damage to person and/or property. Rather pathetic isn't it.

Of course if you're in a free country, or a free state, you have the Castle Doctrine on your side http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine

It's not funny how far England had fallen away from that principle. I have heard of several cases recently where a homeowner was prosecuted severly for defending his life and property with force. Of course I'm sure they'd do the same thing in Commiefornia, Taxeschussets, NY, DC and Chigaco.

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

I am not sure of this.

But, I heard if you catch a burglar climbing through your window in the US and shoot him.

if he falls inside of the house you are ok, but if he falls outside of the house you will get prosecuted.

So if this ever happens to you, make sure to drag his sorry *** inside before you ring the cops.:lolsign:

 

[J_Oei]

Originally Posted by SolarFlare
You don't need a knife in a public place, so if you do have one you'll be arrested, sounds fair to me,

I think this is a funny statement, being posted on a flashlight board where we own Surefire M6s and USL-type lights that might "temporarily blind people!" :ironic:

I'm sure 99% of the people (and 100% of the government) would probably think that we don't "need" these types of lights.

I'm for the "just cause I don't need it doesn't mean you can't have it if you want it." (SUVs, alcohol, etc) :thinking:

As far as all the video survelliance, I think it makes it easier for the police to solve the crime, not prevent it. Which is great for the police, but not for the victim.

Read the following book which states that the police do not have an obligation to help you.
Dial 911 and Die

PS Amazingly, this thread has remained civil. :wow:

 

[Casual Flashlight User]

As far as all the video survelliance, I think it makes it easier for the police to solve the crime, not prevent it. Which is great for the police, but not for the victim.

Yep, the UK's 'Sky News' channel actually showed some footage of a young lad being stabbed to death by sub-human thugs a few weeks ago. Fat lot of good CCTV did him.





CFU

 

[SolarFlare]

Suffer damage to person and/or property. Rather pathetic isn't it.

Thats actually quite wrong, in the UK you're quite entitled to use reasonable force against an intruder, if that results in their death thats ok too. Running to the bottom of your garden and stabbing someone who is just nicking ya lawn mower isn't ok, seems reasonable.

I think this is a funny statement, being posted on a flashlight board where we own Surefire M6s and USL-type lights that might "temporarily blind people!"

Rather different than being penetrated through a vital organ with German trench knife, don't you think?

 

[Dirty Bob]

Those that do carry are those that are either out to commit crime, those who look for trouble, or need some kind of ego boost to counteract other inadequacies or escape from a dreary life.

Sorry, but I can't agree, and it doesn't seem to be "the high road" to disparage those who disagree with you. On four times in my life, my being armed (and willing to defend myself) has saved me from what might have been serious bodily harm. Three of the events featured two attackers, but on one occasion I was about to be attacked by at least six people, when they saw I was armed (I was reaching for the chain around my neck that I used to lock my bike) and backed off.

Two of the incidents were probably aborted robbery/muggings, while the other two seemed to be people just looking to attack some random person for entertainment.

Just because you may not have ever faced violence, a lot of us have. I live in a very nice neighborhood and work at a job in a "secure" environment, but I'm still very careful in my daily life, and I am armed when it is legal.

All my best,
Dirty Bob

 

[270winchester]

Sorry, but I can't agree, and it doesn't seem to be "the high road" to disparage those who disagree with you. On four times in my life, my being armed (and willing to defend myself) has saved me from what might have been serious bodily harm. Three of the events featured two attackers, but on one occasion I was about to be attacked by at least six people, when they saw I was armed (I was reaching for the chain around my neck that I used to lock my bike) and backed off.

Two of the incidents were probably aborted robbery/muggings, while the other two seemed to be people just looking to attack some random person for entertainment.

Just because you may not have ever faced violence, a lot of us have. I live in a very nice neighborhood and work at a job in a "secure" environment, but I'm still very careful in my daily life, and I am armed when it is legal.

All my best,
Dirty Bob

Save your breath Bob, for the Continent of Europe they still think of horses and buggies when they see you are from Texas. It's the elitist way of thinking that says "but we here in Europe don't need weapons like the savages in Texas". The Euros hold so much stereotype of Texas it's really sad...

 

[SolarFlare]

Save your breath Bob, for the Continent of Europe they still think of horses and buggies when they see you are from Texas. It's the elitist way of thinking that says "but we here in Europe don't need weapons like the savages in Texas". The Euros hold so much stereotype of Texas it's really sad...

What utter nonsense that statement in itself is hypocritical and stereotypical. I decided to do a quick search to see why you are so paranoid about not being able to carry a knife on your possible visit to the UK, and here they are:-

These are from the UK Home Office and the FBI. Homicides per capita.

With a knife.
UK 1 in 256,107
US 1 in 164,107

With a gun.
UK 1 in 827, 965
US 1 in 31,566

Overall Homicides
UK 1 in 74,989
US 1 in 21,042

No wonder you are paranoid, but rest in the knowledge, that if you do come to the UK you'll be a lot safer than staying at home :naughty:

 

[dg]

Two of the incidents were probably aborted robbery/muggings, while the other two seemed to be people just looking to attack some random person for entertainment.

Just because you may not have ever faced violence, a lot of us have. I live in a very nice neighborhood and work at a job in a "secure" environment, but I'm still very careful in my daily life, and I am armed when it is legal.

All my best,
Dirty Bob

Yes that sums it up.

In the UK, it is much less likely to get mugged or have people look for random attacks for entertainment.

We don't have to be careful, and don't always have to be on the look out. Therefore we don't have the need to be armed against such chance events

We have a different society here, with different attitudes. And our laws work for us - and for those visiting

Save your breath Bob, for the Continent of Europe they still think of horses and buggies when they see you are from Texas. It's the elitist way of thinking that says "but we here in Europe don't need weapons like the savages in Texas". The Euros hold so much stereotype of Texas it's really sad...

LOL. Don't be so conceited. Its just one of your states to us, nothing special.

Now most of the US posters to this thread seem to be intent on having a bit of Brit or Euro bashing. I must advise that you would be on a hiding to nothing if we had to retaliate

 

[Sub_Umbra]

What utter nonsense that statement in itself is hypocritical and stereotypical. I decided to do a quick search to see why you are so paranoid about not being able to carry a knife on your possible visit to the UK, and here they are:-

These are from the UK Home Office and the FBI. Homicides per capita.

With a knife.
UK 1 in 256,107
US 1 in 164,107

With a gun.
UK 1 in 827, 965
US 1 in 31,566

Overall Homicides
UK 1 in 74,989
US 1 in 21,042

No wonder you are paranoid, but rest in the knowledge, that if you do come to the UK you'll be a lot safer than staying at home :naughty:

Emphasis mine

First off, Paranoia is a very serious disorder and not just a political and/or cultural point of view. To label a poster that you dissagree with paranoid is simply calling him sick and such personal attacks do not further your cause. You also try to quote statistics from the FBI and the Home Office which, if taken at face value, would indicate that the target of your name calling actually may have something to fear on a rational level, if the figures you put up have any real meaning in context, which you conveniently did not provide. So, what did you actually mean when you impuned his arguments by insinuating that he was sick? If your contextless statistics are accurate, he really does have something to fear and your calling him sick is just a blatent personal attack and has nothing to do with his argument at all. In any event, no matter what your figures seem to show you insist on calling him sick twice in one post.

Note that I am not attacking you -- only your post.

As far as those statistics you quoted from the FBI and the Home Office, the ones with no dates, the ones that no one may correlate to anything meaningful because you didn't even give out a URL with them, I'm not impressed. I was able to find data that refutes your numbers and mine come from the same sources (and I see no necessity to withhold any of the details, as you did) and I won't have to resort to any personal attacks to make my point. If you want to contest the numbers I put up -- fine, at least I've put them up in such a way that you won't be left scratching your head and wondering what century they are from.

For the 'Cliff's Notes' version, with just the graphs, (yet still more contextual information than Solarflare provided with his numbers) click on the imagelink below:

For those who may want to view the data in more context, the PDF file is here

...Don't be so conceited....Now most of the US posters to this thread seem to be intent on having a bit of Brit or Euro bashing. I must advise that you would be on a hiding to nothing if we had to retaliate

Emphasis mine

Ahhh... so we're conceited and sick and we're the ones doing the bashing... At least your side is consistant. And then, what's that, a threat at the end? And this is coming from the guys that think the people are a danger to the public? The same guys who think that they can't be trusted with any kind of useful weapon to defend their wives, mothers and children? Ohhhh....shivers run down my spine.

Strong arguments, those.

 

[270winchester]

never mind

 

[SolarFlare]

I thought you might of been capable of looking for yourself, but as you can't here's an early link to get you into http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/02-nmurder03.html#t209

 

[SolarFlare]

Paranoia is not an illness, its a state of mind, use your dictionary instead of *******ising our language. The posting of figures can go on add infinitum, the end result is per head of population that you live in a "more murderous society" regardless. Argue with me if you like, but you can't deny it.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

Paranoia is not an illness, its a state of mind, use your dictionary instead of *******ising our language.

Emphasis mine

There you go again...
I did use a dictionary but in your fury you must not have noticed. My use of the word Paranoia was directly linked to a page of definitions from dictionaries. The very first dictionary result in the page I linked to in my last post defines paranoia as:

"A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without
grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason."​

When you call someone paranoid you are saying that they are sick. If you are unable to tell the difference between 'a state of mind' and 'a psychotic disorder' I must agree with your assertion that that you are not competent to carry a knife in public. At least we may agree on something.

...The posting of figures can go on add infinitum, the end result is per head of population that you live in a "more murderous society" regardless. Argue with me if you like, but you can't deny it.

Emphasis mine

That makes sense. Lets see, a few hours ago, when it suited your purpose you introduce your own figures, but let anyone try to respond in kind and you'll have none of it. Are statistics only valid when you post them? What new tactic will you embrace tomorrow -- only to declare it invalid when someone responds? Many would think that since you brought statistics up in the first place that you might have at least a little interest in statistics from the exact same sources you used to try to make your point just a few hours before.

I'm actually beginning to agree with you on a few points after reading your posts today. While you have made it known from the start that you don't think I'm competent to carry a knife, I've only come to that conclusion about you tonight. Unlike yourself, I don't blindly condemn all of humanity in this regard. I feel that nearly everyone else is still up to the task.