any development in UK's knife ban?

[Datasaurusrex]

Leduk:

"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" -- sometimes though, like in the case of Gov complied UK crime statistics, it's just easier to spot the deception

What you call 'societal values,' most Americans refer to as "unalienable natural rights." Regardless of whether or not your particular 'culture' acknowledges them or not. Thank you very much, but I'll support my brothers who value freedom, not those who supress it, no matter where they live.

A majority of you guys would 'rub along' just fine without your right hand... so every citizen over there have an amputation? Sure a few might complain, but wth?

Ok, maybe the right hand thing is a bit extreme.... we'll make it the left

 

[kakster]

Why not go the whole hog and just execute 'em?

 

[Size15's]

That is the whole point about cultures being different!
One culture considers one thing, another considers it differently.
The 'issue' comes when one culture applies its values on another.

With all due respect I do not attempt to apply my cultural values on knives to Americans and I would prefer Americans respected us likewise.

It's all about balance and proportion.

Al

 

[Datasaurusrex]

Al, it seems you're basing an argument on "cultural relevatism." If that's the case you must not object to the practice of female 'circumcision' in Africa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_circumcision

After all, it's just a 'cultural difference,' just a 'societial norm.' Us here in the first world have no right to interject our cultural value into a debate about female genitalia mutilation that takes place in Africa, right?

And if cultural relativism is correct, then cannabilism and infanticide can also be ok -- so long as it's an accepted cultural practice.

And how does one define a culture, what makes it legitimate? I mean must it be a 'national culture,' or can it be a city culture? Or the culture of a city block? Or a 'gang' culture? Can 2 people get together and form a culture? Oh, let us say those two people want to be serial killers, well if it's their culture it must be ok, right?

No, of course not.

It is pefectly ok for me to have an opinion about UK laws, to judge them. It is also ok for me to support my brothers over there who are fighting for their rights.

I support my freedom loving brothers in the Philippines too http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060810/lf_afp/philippinesgunsrights_060810051145

Doesn't matter if you live in the UK or PHL or anywhere else, a human right is a human right. http://www.a-human-right.com

Knifes and guns, they are just tools. Banning the tool doesn't solve the root problems.

Hey, don't worry... you'll be safer when the ban metal lathes in the UK. Can't have blokes like you making tool parts at home now can we.

 

[270winchester]

It's all about balance and proportion.

Al

Al I admire you as a knowledgable Surefire expert, but that statement is a seriously generalizing label that is impossible to argue no matter how bad the situation is.

Who sets the balance? you? nope. your government does. your government is also responsible in allowing criminal elements disguised as immigrants to enter you country. So do they know what balance and proportion is?

An African students gets killed in Russia by racist thugs. The police calls it hooliganism and calls in internal afairs and rejects other country's outrage. Do you accpet it as cultural differences or do you consider it not okay?

Al, you obviously feel pretty safe and secure in your area. but one day your neighborhood might change into something you didn;t like, due to your government's policies without your consent. It could happen to you too. But they know that peaceful citizens like you will live with it no matter what they say, because it all comes down to balance.

 

[Datasaurusrex]

Why not go the whole hog and just execute 'em?

I'm sorry if my amputation comment came across as being serious, it was 100% a joke.

I was trying to show how LedUK's comment of "There are NO changes in the UK knife laws. A couple of folks are unhappy but the majority of us rub along just fine." Isn't a very strong argument.

A lot of things could be justified if the yardstick was "a majority of citizens can rub along just fine." I'm guessing 'rub' means "get by."

No, don't cut off left hands, don't excecute people, and don't ban useful tools just because most people can 'get by' without access to them.

 

[BB]

Here is a nice (towards Americans) opinion piece from the Telegraph (UK). It attempts to offer an explanation why folks in the USA see things so differently with respect to Europe:

Americans...Liberty

It is almost as interesting to read some of the comments on the article too (both the good and the bad).

By the way, I shortened the title to not inflame a discussion here as this thread is about knife laws and is not intended to be a US vs UK discussion.

-Bill

 

[BUZ]

LMAO man what a joke, they are slowly but surely losing all their right's! (what a shame)!!!!

 

[Size15's]

I'm not saying that every issue where cultures disagree should be respected.
I'm saying that the UK's cultural views on knives and how society should treat them should be.

One of the difficulties applying the USA's cultural views on self-defence is that they have their Constitution and it's 2nd Amendment. I'm no expert but I eat pork and technically as a Christian I understand my rule book states I really shouldn't. The rule was made when things were different. I'm no expert but which rules should I obey and which should I choose to ignore or fight to change?

I personally believe that successive UK Governments have systematically removed our right to self-defense and that this is extremely bad. But it's our problem and we'll deal with it in our own way. There will surely come a point at which the people feel the need to start arming themselves for self-defence and after a bit of mess we'll vote for our representatives to be those who change the law(s) so we can once again lawfully defend ourselves and carry weapons in order to do so.

I guess that "people" in the UK have been hoping that the problem will sort itself out and it's becoming clear that it isn't.

How about I phrase it like this:
Please respect that we want to make our own mistakes and deal with them in our own way, and we'll respect you as your make your own mistakes and deal with them in your own way.

Al

 

[Datasaurusrex]

Al,

I promise that I won't fly over to England and join a political party, start petition drives, cold call residents in an attempt to inform them of the issue, etc. Since I am not a British citizen those actions would not be appropriate.

I do think it is well within 'normal expected behavior' to voice an opinion over the internet, to advocate for a position. I would also consider donating funds to a decent UK based gun rights organization, and I think that would be an appropriate action too

Personally I think that the issue of human rights is so important that any conscientious person has a duty to speak up.

There's also an ancillary reason to speak up on this topic, and that is to prevent the snowball effect of rights being erroded elsewhere. We're in a position where countries are falling like dominos, Australia, UK, and Canada. It's just prudent to try and help stop the downward spiral before it's at my front door.

So first and foremost, voicing an opinion about the misguided and illegitimate UK tool bans is the right thing to do (inherently right). And secondly it is right because it helps stop the general tide of freedom-haters.

 

[Size15's]

Along with re-establishing our right to self-defence I feel it is just as important that we support efforts to improve society so that our need to carry weapons for self-defence reduces.

One can show that by allowing the population to carry weapons to defend themselves reduces crime but I would prefer the focus of education to be on developing our society and the people in it to the extent that weapons are not needed.

I gather that in the 1910's crime in the UK was pretty low and that our mistake as a nation could well have been to allow our Governments to remove our ability to defend ourselves since it was not needed any longer (I guess perhaps Governments thought that since we didn't have to defend ourselves from eacy other we may start using weapons to defend ourselves against the Government?)

Anyway, this experiment since the 1920's is getting the stage where it is increasely becoming evident that it isn't working as planned.

If I start to become a victim of crime and find myself being at a disadvantage because I can not defend myself I will certainly consider my options!

Al