any development in UK's knife ban?

[leukos]

Re: There isn't a new ban: just a call for one from the BMJ

Many assaults are impulsive, often triggered by alcohol or misuse of other drugs, and the long pointed kitchen knife is an easily available potentially lethal weapon particularly in the domestic setting. Government action to ban the sale of such knives would drastically reduce their availability over the course of a few years. In addition, such legislation would make it harder to justify carrying such knives and prosecution easier.

The Home Office is looking for ways to reduce knife crime. We suggest that banning the sale of long pointed knives is a sensible and practical measure that would have this effect.

Seems like the British Medical Journal correctly diagnosed the usual cause (alcohol/drugs), but prescribes a rather ignorantly blunt solution....

 

[Datasaurusrex]

Re: There isn't a new ban: just a call for one from the BMJ

My understanding is that there is no new knife ban in the UK.

The 'old' one is bad enough.

To ban locking pocket knives is unconscionable, because a non-locking pocket knife is far more dangerous to use than one with a locking blade -- more dangerous to use for anything! There's a much greater risk that the blade will unintentionally fold and cut your fingers to the bone.

As other have said,,, ban the right people (criminals), not useful tools that humans have a inherent right to own (within a free society anyways).

 

[Kevin Tan]

That will be crossbows in the debate soon then. They tried to ban them a few years ago, when a few people were using them to shoot swans and other water birds...

Its been banned along time ago here in Malaysia, a former colony. Along with fishing spearguns.....

 

[270winchester]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/5037322.stm

I guess my Heiniken lust would have to be contained in a paper cup....

 

[kakster]

Re: There isn't a new ban: just a call for one from the BMJ

The 'old' one is bad enough.

To ban locking pocket knives is unconscionable, because a non-locking pocket knife is far more dangerous to use than one with a locking blade -- more dangerous to use for anything! There's a much greater risk that the blade will unintentionally fold and cut your fingers to the bone.....

There is no ban on locking knives. As long as you have a reasonable excuse, you are free to carry a lock knife.

Only autos, balisongs and push daggers are banned outright.

 

[MoonRise]

Re: There isn't a new ban: just a call for one from the BMJ

Sigh. "reasonable excuse", "we only will use the law against hoodlums, terrorists, and criminals", "well, we'll only use the law if you are wearing a hoodie", etc, etc

Hmmm, Dean Payne in 1996 was arrested and JAILED, see Post #123 above. Hmmmm, Dean wasn't apparently doing anything wrong or malicious except he had three small utility/tool-type knives that he used mostly as part of his JOB (his reasonable excuse), and yet the court jailed him anyway. "... because of public fear of knives ..."

If there is a law, it WILL be applied. Maybe to you, maybe not. And 'reasonable' laws are usually not.

Look at the progression of the UK's 'reasonable' gun laws. Look and see how the Statists try to control and regulate and restrict and ban. Look and see how the UK's 'reasonable' knife restrictions are progressing.

Look up the famous quote/poem: First they came for ...

Try here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

Divide and conquer ...

 

[Datasaurusrex]

Re: There isn't a new ban: just a call for one from the BMJ

There is no ban on locking knives. As long as you have a reasonable excuse, you are free to carry a lock knife.

Only autos, balisongs and push daggers are banned outright.

I would not want my freedom contingnent upon that level of officer's discretion. The risk is just to high.

 

[Lightraven]

Strictly speaking, it is the jury or judge who must decide what is reasonable. While getting arrested is not fun, the police officer's role is to present a possible crime (probable cause) to a state's attorney, who decides to file charges, which is decided by judge or jury.

In the U.S., a police officer can seize an unlawful item without any due process, that would include an unlawful weapon. This doesn't necessarily (and often doesn't) result in arrest or conviction.

Ultimately, it isn't the police you need to worry about, it is twelve jurors (at least in the U.S).

To add, in California there are quite a few knife bans on the books. So we don't have total freedom here, either.

 

[Brangdon]

(Mis-post... can't see how to delete it.)

 

[RAF_Groundcrew]

Regarding in particular the Spyderco "UK Penknife", is it UK legal??

I'm sorry to have to ask this here... I'm in the British Royal Air Force, part of the government, after all, and I don't know exactly what the UK knife carry law is..

At work, I carry a Spyderco Military plain edge, but I would like to have a knife for 'off duty' and I prefer Spyderco. Can anybody (and I'm hoping for an answer from a Brit Police officer if possible), clarify whether the Spyderco "UK Penknife" with it's sub 3", non locking blade, is totally LEGAL and carryable in public in Britain??

I have small Spydie (was called the CX01 experimental, I think. Has a G10 handle, 2" total blade length, but it locks, shame.

 

[Size15's]

Regarding in particular the Spyderco "UK Penknife", is it UK legal??

I'm sorry to have to ask this here... I'm in the British Royal Air Force, part of the government, after all, and I don't know exactly what the UK knife carry law is..

At work, I carry a Spyderco Military plain edge, but I would like to have a knife for 'off duty' and I prefer Spyderco. Can anybody (and I'm hoping for an answer from a Brit Police officer if possible), clarify whether the Spyderco "UK Penknife" with it's sub 3", non locking blade, is totally LEGAL and carryable in public in Britain??

I have small Spydie (was called the CX01 experimental, I think. Has a G10 handle, 2" total blade length, but it locks, shame.

It's not that black and white. It's all to do with context.
A folding knife (non locking etc) with a blade length of 72 mm or less is not prohibited automatically but can still be considered a weapon if the Police Officer considers that it is being carried as a weapon.

 

[RAF_Groundcrew]

It's not that black and white. It's all to do with context.
A folding knife (non locking etc) with a blade length of 72 mm or less is not prohibited automatically but can still be considered a weapon if the Police Officer considers that it is being carried as a weapon.

Like the 30 round, 5.56mm self loading rifle I would be carrying , also `could be` considered an offenive weapon, depending on context..but is usually allowed `in public` due to conventions on the armed forces being armed at times.

What with Christmas only a few months away, let's assume you`re in the queue for the escalator during the pre Christmas sale period, and suddenly, there is a scream, as a young girl is caught by her woolen scarf, and dragged toward the mechanism of the escalator.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/01/05/escalator060105.html

Just saying... A knife in responsible hands is a tool. Just like an EDC flashlight, a talisman carried, "JUST IN CASE ".

 

[Sub_Umbra]

So, at best all a good citizen can really do is hope that any LEO he runs into happened to get up on the right side of bed?

Wow. :-(

 

[Size15's]

For the vast majority of the time we go about our lives not having any interaction with the Police (except perhaps speeding tickets)
In the event a knife you are carrying can be used to save a life then that is more important then any personal consequences to yourself for having it on you in the first place. For example: If you were to use it to save a young girl's life by cutting her free then by the time the Police arrive you can put it back in your pocket if it is one which you'd prefer they didn't get interested in.

If you use a knife to defend yourself (or anybody else) against an attacker then being alive and in prison (or fined etc) is better than being dead. Getting involved in a fight and using anything as a weapon is going to have the Police looking very carefully at the situation - especially if it looks like you used excessive force. If I ever get attacked and have the ability to fight back the last thing I'm going consider is whether my counter-attack is reasonable - I am going to take no chances in prevailing accepting that I could/will have to justify my actions later and the cards fall as they may.

We have built our society around attitudes and action deemed acceptable and appropriate - tested through the courts - judged by our peers. We have been moving away from considering it necessary to carry weapons - bows and arrows, swords, knifes, guns etc but that is not to say we as a society will never reach a situation whether it is considered necessary to change that.
We decide as a society what is acceptable - we vote for our representatives in Government and influence the decisions they make for us.

On balance, my life experience so far leads me to consider I would rather live in a society where I do not need to carry a weapon to go about my business.
Of course there are a few people in certain specific areas of the UK (for example: deprived urban areas) who are living very different lives under very difference circumstances and they are carrying knives and sometimes firearms to go about their lives. Where possible I avoid visiting these areas and actively promote communities where such a life has no place.

Al

 

[cdf]

The whole thing seems a bit silly to me , If I carry my Loveless City Knife I'm OK , If I carry my CRK Mnandi , and some LEO or Judge doesn't agree with my concept of reasonable excuse- I get two years . I copuld also get two years for carrying my Leatherman Charge , this is absurd even by pinko commie Canadian standards . I fail to see any moral difference .

Chris

 

[Size15's]

You have to ask yourself why the Police Officer has stopped and searched you in the first place. This is the most important thing - there are far more people than there are Police Officers and therefore the Police don't have time to stop and search everybody just in case. Don't make yourself a target and you won't attract their attention.

Al

 

[Datasaurusrex]

You have to ask yourself why the Police Officer has stopped and searched you in the first place. This is the most important thing - there are far more people than there are Police Officers and therefore the Police don't have time to stop and search everybody just in case. Don't make yourself a target and you won't attract their attention.

Al

Rose colored glasses

 

[Size15's]

I don't see why... I don't know anybody who has been stopped and searched by a Police Officer. Not one.

If my situation changes - perhaps my neighbourhood goes down hill or something I'll take another look at my situation.

I can not see any reason why I shouldn't carry a lock knife if I want. Perhaps I do?

 

[Lightraven]

I note for the second time that Size 15s has some of the most logical straightforward comments about self-defense that I have read on CPF. I pretty much agree with everything he has written in today's posts, and I know from experience what goes on when somebody carries a knife, gets arrested, deploys a knife or other weapon against another, or shoots and kills another in the United States. I don't know anything about Britain.

The laws say one thing, and something quite different happens in real life. And people must balance the risks of getting in trouble for a weapon or use of force violation versus getting robbed, raped or seriously hurt. It's an uncomfortable tension and there is no resolution. Take your chances one way or another.

 

[RAF_Groundcrew]

We live in an age where Surefire puts sharp spiky things on flashlights, just in case. I would feel totally at ease in Britain, carrying a licenced concealed handgun, or for that matter, a sword. A knife, if I were to routinely carry in public, would not be thought of by me as a weapon, but as a tool (with a last resort fallback option of self defence). I have been involved with weaponry for many years (I had legal handguns, until the British government bannd them, and I used the compensation to buy a sniper rifle), I fence, I take part in Kendo.


A knife fight is not a noble 'duel', it is messy, close quarter fighting, and usually, if both participants are armed, then 'everybody gets some'.

I fully support severe sentencing for criminals who use knives or other weapons to instill fear into others, or use them to inflict unjust injury on the innocent, but I also fully believe in the right to self defence, the ability to preserve one's own life and well being, and that of one's family, until the arrival of the police (could be several hours in Britain these days).

I'm getting off topic here a little, but I think what I am trying to say, is that the criminalisation of an everyday object will not in itself prevent crime. (think about all the pistols that were 'banned' in 1997. is armed crime now higher than then, of course it is), The public's attitude needs to change, and we need to get back some of the respect for others that has gone missing.