Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have stopped it?

[InTheDark]

Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have

Question: Who's going to be dumb enough to drive the other bulldozer? And how easy is it going to be to take a person in a standard bulldozer and go up against a suicidal person in a heavily armored bulldozer with a lot of firepower? If it is that easy, what's stopping him from doing the same thing? And do you know that stupid who will get close enough to throw a bomb torwards an person with a gun, let alone one in an armored bulldozer?

I give the police a lot of credit for taking on situations like these. Not only do they have to make quick decisions and go up against an unknown enemy, they also have to deal with the repercussions from monday morning quarterbacks who have days to analyze every little detail and question their every decision after all the facts are known and. Don't forget the police didn't know how mentally competent this guys was, how much many guns he could've had inside, how skilled he was at operating a bulldozer, whether there was a bomb inside, etc.

This is reminds me of the North Hollywood shootouts. After the incident, the families of the so called "victims" wanted to sue to police saying they purposely let the gunmen die, that there were other "non-lethal" solutions. If I were the police, I wouldn't have let him die, I would've purposely killed him. Not all problems are solved by firepower, but when you're in a situation like that, you can't sit around trying to figure out what's the most non-lethal solution. I think the police did what they could at the time, yes there might have been a better solution after you know all the facts, but at the time there probably wasn't another way.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have

In the dark summed it up nicely! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Hindsite is often WAY better than 20/20!!!

 

[AlphaTea]

Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have

...as for using another similar sized Dozer to tip him over, there are a couple of problems with that.
First of all there might not have been another one in that small sized town. Secondly, I dont think a same sized (or bigger) dozer would have been able to do it because he was much much heavier with all of that armour and shielding.

AFAIK it is highly illegal to use our armed forces (USN, USAF, USMC, Army) against US citizens in the USA. So the AC-130 and the M1A2 Abrahms arn't available. A LAWS rocket is not available to civilian LEO's. The National Guard may be used, but only under the direct authorization of the Governor.

 

[brightnorm]

Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have

[ QUOTE ]
turbodog said:
...I think the question was posed seriously. What do you stop this thing with on short notice that's available at your local police station? Don't forget, the driver was firing a gun out of the dozer also...

[/ QUOTE ]

You're exactly right; that was my intention.

Brightnorm

 

[brightnorm]

Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have

Deleted

 

[turbodog]

Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have

If you read enough on the net, they DID use another dozer. Perp was driving a 50 ton D9 cat. They used a D11 cat to keep him contained in town. Also, nobody actually stopped him... he crashed through into a basement and could not get out. He then committed suicide.

 

[Avix]

Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have

the tracks are always the weak points on any tracked vehicle. take out the track with a vehicle (IE: other bulldozer), throw the track and he ain't going no where.

ever see a tank spin on ice?

 

[NeonLights]

Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have

From the descriptions I've heard of the "armor" on the bulldozer, the ports he had for shooting out of were relatively small, therefore he had a lot of blindspots. Anyways, if he had a hole to shoot out of, any half decent sharpshooter (or two or three) could have put several rounds inside the hole without risking getting shot himself. A couple well placed .308 rounds inside the cab of the 'dozer would have spent sometime ricocheting off the armor inside the cab and likely done some damage to the driver. If the holes were to small to accurately fire a shot into, then they were also too small to fire accurately out of, and approaching the bulldozer wouldn't have been terribly risky. Sounds like the local authorities did the righ thing by using a larger bulldozer to at least contain, if not stop him.

-Keith

 

[JOshooter]

Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have

All the time reading through this thread, I'm thinking they should have used some expanding foam insulation, that would have definately blinded him and the cameras.

 

[leadfoot]

Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have

I think the lawenforcement officers did what they could with what was available. And what they did was harrass, confuse and contain the problem until the cat driver stopped himself. And then he saved the local budget by killing himself which hopefull removed his dna from the gene pool.

Leadfoot

 

[BB]

Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have

Here is an update on the bulldozer construction:

Armored dozer was bad to go:

[ QUOTE ]
Heemeyer had mounted a .223-caliber Ruger Mini-14 rifle on the side of the bulldozer, a .308-caliber Fabrique Nationale rifle in the front, and a .50-caliber Barrett 82A1 semiautomatic rifle out the back.

He had cut a fourth hole on the driver's side of the cab, presumably for the Tec-9 semiautomatic machine pistol he had with him, but Grand County Sheriff Rod Johnson doesn't believe he ever used it.

Heemeyer cut several Plexiglas-protected portholes in his steel and concrete armor, but in the end, he relied more on an elaborate video-monitoring system for a view of the outside.

With seven cameras mounted on his bulldozer, Heemeyer used a television switching box inside the cab to activate the camera images he wanted to see on the three video monitors set up on his dashboard.

Johnson said Heemeyer went so far as to rig an oxygen tank to some copper tubing so that he could send a blast of compressed air out to the camera lenses and blow off any dirt or dust that might accumulate during his rampage.

Miniature sliding steel doors behind his portholes protected Heemeyer from gunshots that might penetrate the multiple layers of Plexiglas he had installed.

[/ QUOTE ]

No information on why he did it...

-Bill