Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have stopped it?
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JonSidneyB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
does any place have the details on the zoning dispute.
does any place have the details on the zoning dispute.
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
A little information:
[ QUOTE ]
Officials and acquaintances of Heemeyer said his feud dated to his unsuccessful fight in 2000 against the Granby zoning commission's permitting of neighboring property owner Cody Docheff to build a cement batch plant.
Town officials say Heemeyer appealed the decision and even filed suit, but the town prevailed.
[/ QUOTE ]
-Bill
A little information:
[ QUOTE ]
Officials and acquaintances of Heemeyer said his feud dated to his unsuccessful fight in 2000 against the Granby zoning commission's permitting of neighboring property owner Cody Docheff to build a cement batch plant.
Town officials say Heemeyer appealed the decision and even filed suit, but the town prevailed.
[/ QUOTE ]
-Bill
JonSidneyB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
more details....why did he not want the cement company there
more details....why did he not want the cement company there
Sub_Umbra
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
An EMP bot would be elegant and effective. EMP would make short work of the camera(s). They've been on the wish lists of PDs for years.
A cheap, simple kludge would be a directed microwave device.
Someone said flamethrower -- but fill it with paint. Even if you don't know where all the cameras are -- paint the whole front. If he backs up, paint the back. Don't stop til he does.
In a pinch a can of paint thrown on his camera(s) would work. If that's too dangerous use a paintball gun.
Foam him with a fire truck. Cats aren't very fast.
I can't believe they didn't try to blind him.
Coils of wire. While the guy's crawling along, just keep throwing coil after coil of wire in his path. Tankers don't like wire.
No need for missiles and all of the Posse Comitatus complications.
An EMP bot would be elegant and effective. EMP would make short work of the camera(s). They've been on the wish lists of PDs for years.
A cheap, simple kludge would be a directed microwave device.
Someone said flamethrower -- but fill it with paint. Even if you don't know where all the cameras are -- paint the whole front. If he backs up, paint the back. Don't stop til he does.
In a pinch a can of paint thrown on his camera(s) would work. If that's too dangerous use a paintball gun.
Foam him with a fire truck. Cats aren't very fast.
I can't believe they didn't try to blind him.
Coils of wire. While the guy's crawling along, just keep throwing coil after coil of wire in his path. Tankers don't like wire.
No need for missiles and all of the Posse Comitatus complications.
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
Some more information:
[ QUOTE ]
The virtual tank had cameras mounted outside and three video monitors mounted inside so Heemeyer could see where he was going. It had a .50-caliber gun on the front and two smaller-caliber semi-automatic weapons, one on each side, protruding through portals. It was equipped with an air conditioner, and its hydraulics were protected by armor. Its cab was reinforced with quarter- to half-inch metal plates, with a foot of concrete between them. Inside, there were a gas mask and two handguns [edit to add: a police scanner], said Granby Mayor Edward Wang.
...
More incomprehensible still was the long-simmering anger that Heemeyer appeared to harbor. Many of the buildings he targeted had been connected in some way to people who played roles in a zoning decision that allowed a concrete batch plant to be built near his muffler shop on the outskirts of town, said Tom Hale, Granby's town manager.
[/ QUOTE ]
-Bill
Some more information:
[ QUOTE ]
The virtual tank had cameras mounted outside and three video monitors mounted inside so Heemeyer could see where he was going. It had a .50-caliber gun on the front and two smaller-caliber semi-automatic weapons, one on each side, protruding through portals. It was equipped with an air conditioner, and its hydraulics were protected by armor. Its cab was reinforced with quarter- to half-inch metal plates, with a foot of concrete between them. Inside, there were a gas mask and two handguns [edit to add: a police scanner], said Granby Mayor Edward Wang.
...
More incomprehensible still was the long-simmering anger that Heemeyer appeared to harbor. Many of the buildings he targeted had been connected in some way to people who played roles in a zoning decision that allowed a concrete batch plant to be built near his muffler shop on the outskirts of town, said Tom Hale, Granby's town manager.
[/ QUOTE ]
-Bill
Sub_Umbra
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
OK. That's it. Bring out the heavy gunz. Janet Reno.
OK. That's it. Bring out the heavy gunz. Janet Reno.
PhotonBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
The paint idea is good. Surely it would have blinded all the cameras if they had sprayed it thoroughly.
In any case, it looks to me like he accomplished most of what he set out to do. From what I read, most of the buildings in the small town had been demolished before he finally got stuck.
The paint idea is good. Surely it would have blinded all the cameras if they had sprayed it thoroughly.
In any case, it looks to me like he accomplished most of what he set out to do. From what I read, most of the buildings in the small town had been demolished before he finally got stuck.
kongfuchicken
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
have to police go get his mother /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whoopin.gif
have to police go get his mother /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whoopin.gif
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
[ QUOTE ]
JonSidneyB said:
more details....why did he not want the cement company there
[/ QUOTE ]
Noisy, dusty (possible silicosis/lung damage), heavy truck traffic, cement powder.
Portland Cement MSDS
[ QUOTE ]
Overview: This product contains portland cement, water, and aggregates (sand and gravel). The naturally occurring aggregate, typically granite and/or limestone, contains varying amounts of crystalline silica as described herein. When working with this alkaline product, wear protective rubber gloves. This product may also contain small quantities of admixtures from secondary producers including: Daravair M/R, WRDA with Hycol, Eclipse, Daratard 17, Daracem 19, Polarset, ADVA, DCI Corrosion Inhibitor (from W.R. Grace), fly ash (from Pozzolanic International), and/or calcium chloride (from Hillbrothers Chemical Co.) as well as colors and fibermesh. For information on these products, consult with Graniterock or the manufacturer. When in the hardened state, portland cement concrete may yield dust containing crystalline silica when drilled, cut, sawed, or abraded in any way. Please see the "Hardened Concrete" Graniterock MSDS for additional information.
[/ QUOTE ]
-Bill
[ QUOTE ]
JonSidneyB said:
more details....why did he not want the cement company there
[/ QUOTE ]
Noisy, dusty (possible silicosis/lung damage), heavy truck traffic, cement powder.
Portland Cement MSDS
[ QUOTE ]
Overview: This product contains portland cement, water, and aggregates (sand and gravel). The naturally occurring aggregate, typically granite and/or limestone, contains varying amounts of crystalline silica as described herein. When working with this alkaline product, wear protective rubber gloves. This product may also contain small quantities of admixtures from secondary producers including: Daravair M/R, WRDA with Hycol, Eclipse, Daratard 17, Daracem 19, Polarset, ADVA, DCI Corrosion Inhibitor (from W.R. Grace), fly ash (from Pozzolanic International), and/or calcium chloride (from Hillbrothers Chemical Co.) as well as colors and fibermesh. For information on these products, consult with Graniterock or the manufacturer. When in the hardened state, portland cement concrete may yield dust containing crystalline silica when drilled, cut, sawed, or abraded in any way. Please see the "Hardened Concrete" Graniterock MSDS for additional information.
[/ QUOTE ]
-Bill
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
Wonder where he bought the concrete from? Probably boycotted the plant next door--you think? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
-Bill
Wonder where he bought the concrete from? Probably boycotted the plant next door--you think? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
-Bill
JonSidneyB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
well it sounds like I wouldn't want a concrete plant next to my property either. Are most concrete pants away from other businesses.
well it sounds like I wouldn't want a concrete plant next to my property either. Are most concrete pants away from other businesses.
AlexGT
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
1 foot thick armor?!?!?!?! H.F.S.!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif, I could bet there was absolutely no weapon in police hands at the time that could penetrate that thing.
Hope the terrorists don't get any ideas about this. Maybe the SWAT teams should upgrade to even bigger guns. BTW Are there any restrictions in the weapons available to LEO or SWAT?, I know that up to Class 3 (Machineguns) is OK, but I really don't know up to what they can have and when to call the troops.
Anyone knows?
Alex
1 foot thick armor?!?!?!?! H.F.S.!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif, I could bet there was absolutely no weapon in police hands at the time that could penetrate that thing.
Hope the terrorists don't get any ideas about this. Maybe the SWAT teams should upgrade to even bigger guns. BTW Are there any restrictions in the weapons available to LEO or SWAT?, I know that up to Class 3 (Machineguns) is OK, but I really don't know up to what they can have and when to call the troops.
Anyone knows?
Alex
JonSidneyB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
I think they should not have allowed a concrete plant that close to an auto related business. The externalities would not be able to be contained.
I think they should not have allowed a concrete plant that close to an auto related business. The externalities would not be able to be contained.
turbodog
Flashaholic
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
Did you guys read about the officer who jumped onto it... and found that the entire thing had been smeared with grease?
Did you guys read about the officer who jumped onto it... and found that the entire thing had been smeared with grease?
Unicorn
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
M136 AT-4 84mm anti tank launcher, or an M72-A3 LAW, TOW-2, MK-19 40mm automatic grenade launcher. Oh, wait forgot this isn't here.
Paint as has been sugested to blind him, firefighting foam might kill the engine wouldn't it if it got into the air intake. Get a few rolls of concertina or the coiled type of razor wire and line it up in front of him. It would get caught up in the treads and eventually jam them, or cause him to throw a track.
M136 AT-4 84mm anti tank launcher, or an M72-A3 LAW, TOW-2, MK-19 40mm automatic grenade launcher. Oh, wait forgot this isn't here.
Paint as has been sugested to blind him, firefighting foam might kill the engine wouldn't it if it got into the air intake. Get a few rolls of concertina or the coiled type of razor wire and line it up in front of him. It would get caught up in the treads and eventually jam them, or cause him to throw a track.
revolvergeek
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
1) Aimed rifle/handgun fire at the cameras and the exposed guns. If you blind him and take away his ranged weapons, options 2 and/or 3 become a lot easier.
2) Burn him out. Molotov cocktails, 5 gallon bucket of gas, etc, whatever could be improvised quickly. Gas masks are cheap, so I would not want to try to count on pepper spray. If the dozer was already coated with greese, all the better.
3) Get a cement truck / 18 wheeler / tow truck and ram him from the side. You might damage/detrack him, or *maybe* knock him over if you could time it to hit him when he was on an incline. If nothing else it will slow him down for a few minutes from the concussion.
If he had driven into this compound, I would have run like hell. If I couldn't have run, or he was about to squash a bunch of people, I would have bum-rushed him with the 20pound CO2 fire extinguisher and hoped that I could get the nozzle into one of his gunports and take all his air away.
1) Aimed rifle/handgun fire at the cameras and the exposed guns. If you blind him and take away his ranged weapons, options 2 and/or 3 become a lot easier.
2) Burn him out. Molotov cocktails, 5 gallon bucket of gas, etc, whatever could be improvised quickly. Gas masks are cheap, so I would not want to try to count on pepper spray. If the dozer was already coated with greese, all the better.
3) Get a cement truck / 18 wheeler / tow truck and ram him from the side. You might damage/detrack him, or *maybe* knock him over if you could time it to hit him when he was on an incline. If nothing else it will slow him down for a few minutes from the concussion.
If he had driven into this compound, I would have run like hell. If I couldn't have run, or he was about to squash a bunch of people, I would have bum-rushed him with the 20pound CO2 fire extinguisher and hoped that I could get the nozzle into one of his gunports and take all his air away.
PlayboyJoeShmoe
Flashaholic
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
I got nothin'.
Maybe SWAT teams should look into having an antitank gun or two....
I got nothin'.
Maybe SWAT teams should look into having an antitank gun or two....
Banshee
Enlightened
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2002
- Messages
- 388
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
Think "Private Ryan" style....Howza 'bout some "sticky bombs"... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Axle grease, wool socks and Comp B...took the tracks of a German Tiger tank. Blew a "too slow" paratrooper to bits too!
"you take a standard G.I sock, cram it with as much Composition B as it can hold, rig up a simple fuse, the coat the whole thing with axel grease. now when you throw it, it should stick. its a bomb that sticks, it a "sticky bomb". think of a better way to knock out the tracks and im all ears. "
Think "Private Ryan" style....Howza 'bout some "sticky bombs"... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Axle grease, wool socks and Comp B...took the tracks of a German Tiger tank. Blew a "too slow" paratrooper to bits too!
"you take a standard G.I sock, cram it with as much Composition B as it can hold, rig up a simple fuse, the coat the whole thing with axel grease. now when you throw it, it should stick. its a bomb that sticks, it a "sticky bomb". think of a better way to knock out the tracks and im all ears. "
mattheww50
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Armored bulldozer rampage: How would you have
One of the things that never ceases to amaze me is the refusal to utilize what should be simple, effective, and relatively non-lethal solutions. Most don't even require rocket science.
Another Bulldozer could have been used to roll the the original with a side attack. If you turn it upside down, or even on its side, you do minimal damage to it, and everything else, and it isn't going to go anywhere or do anything. I doubt the engine would even continue to run.
Simple, safe, cheap, effective, and available.
Not allproblems are most effectively solved with firepower.
One of the things that never ceases to amaze me is the refusal to utilize what should be simple, effective, and relatively non-lethal solutions. Most don't even require rocket science.
Another Bulldozer could have been used to roll the the original with a side attack. If you turn it upside down, or even on its side, you do minimal damage to it, and everything else, and it isn't going to go anywhere or do anything. I doubt the engine would even continue to run.
Simple, safe, cheap, effective, and available.
Not allproblems are most effectively solved with firepower.
