Auto headlamp needed with space constrictions

[Joe Kieliszek]

Hello,
I'm a newbie here; just wondering- is there an LED flashlight currently
made with sufficient light output as an antique car headlamp (with
size limited to 4 inches in length and fitting within a 6 inch diameter
enclosure). A burn time of 60 minutes at full power would be terrific.
Top speed of the vehicle is 40 mph (down a steep hill). The brass headlamp enclosures have large vent
holes for heat dispersal (since they
were originally disigned to operate on Prestolite gas).
It would be awesome to be able to display the vehicle ( a 1910 Buick
model 10) with the head lamps in original configuration at a cruise in
and be able to insert a light source into the lamp(s) for an evening drive
back..
I have a lathe & milling machine (a must for brass era cars), so I can
modify existing case enclosures for my application. Any suggestions
would be appreciated.
Please fit into proper forum category if necessary,
Thanks much,
Joe Kieliszek :laughing:

 

[DM51]

Welcome to CPF, Joe.

I'm moving this to our Automotive section - I hope someone there will be able to help you.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

Is it imperative that these still look stock on the ride home, or is the ride home just because you need to get home?

My vote goes for telling the passenger to hold onto the HID torch and aim it in front of the car

Kind of a small space, though.

I don't know how you would keep this from glaring in people's eyes, but you could always design a custom LED array and stuff it in there... There are MCPCBs (you will need to affix it to a heatsink, though) that are round and hold like, 7 high power emitters. I've seen some on Cutter..

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Headlights have a very specific beam pattern, and a flashlight just won't do that. 5 3/4" sealed beams could be made to fit, you can buy European beam conversions so you'll be able to see well too. I'm ASSuming you've upgraded the electrical system.

A flashlight will not be safe or legal for use as a headlight. If all you're doing is sitting at a show, then no matter, but if you plan on driving it on public roads then you'll need a legal solution. If you'll need these headlights to actually see with and get you home safely, then you need a REAL headlight, for yours and other's safety.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

Perhaps are these old burners easily removed? you could make some modules that screw into the old connection that put out a legal pattern, if you were so inclined.. Nothing that looks good just something functional, ya know?

 

[-Virgil-]

Your idea is imaginative but neither practical nor safe. Driving a vehicle such as you describe after dark is hideously risky to the car and the persons in it. Some would call it just plain foolhardy.

 

[Joe Kieliszek]

Hi again,
Thanks for all your input. Right now, dad is in charge of illumination
(shining a rechargable quartz bulb flashlight through the windshield) while
I drive. We haven't provoked any response from the local authority on our
drives back; most of it being in the local park roads.
The gas inlet tube has a v-shaped porcelin tip. The assembly is screwed
in from the bottom outside of each head lamp and is situated about 4-1/4"
back from the front door of the enclosure. There is a concave mirror a
couple of inches behind the burner tip to focus the acetelene flame
which would have been emitted from the tip.
There is still actually at least one person who says he uses his gas head
lamps with acetelene for night driving, but I'm not inclined to go that route.
I'll probably just wait a while and see what products come up in the 4
inch length range and then fabricate a mounting hoop with an
adjustable focal angle. Even a small LED flashlight is probably on a par
of what the light that would have been put out by gas flame
(but they were probably only driving 10 to 20 miles per hour on the
substandard roads of the day).
Thanks much for your ideas,
Joe :wave:
1910 Buick model "10" toy tonneau (dad's car)
1911 Buick model "14" runabout (my current project)

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Maybe you could add headlights that bolt to the bumper or are held on by clips or some sort of removable assembly that could be removed for the show but be reattached for the ride home. If you don't have an electrical system capable of running the lights, then a deep cycle battery in the trunk that can be recharged at home would work.

:buddies:

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I would probably trailer such a vehicle to and from shows, not drive it.

The original headlight configuration (if functioning) is probably still legal, if you really insist on driving it at night.

The "local authority" are probably ignoring your specific vehicle because of some admiration for it or you/your family; this does noöne any favors as if you are involved in a nighttime wreck, everyone will fixate on that the car was not running its factory headlights. The police will then scurry to act as if this was the first time they were aware that it was being driven at night with only that one light being shone out the window. Their tacit approval of such nighttime driving can get someone seriously hurt and also deprive future generations of the enjoyment of a fine antique car.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

you guys are saying an hid flashlight isn't safe enough, and that he should just stick candles back in his headlamps? Honestly, its going to be hard to get in a wreck when you see an old car driving down the street with some old guy hanging out the passenger window shining a huge spotlight in front of the car and moving it sporadically (hard to hold a flashlight still sometimes). Compare that to an old car moving slowly (read stealthily) in the dark with two candles in front...

It's like saying "granny, we're worried about you going on night walks with that really bright flashlight. here's a Solitaire and a black sweater. Have fun!"

Remember, not only will brighter lights let you see better, they let others see you more easily.

I kinda like the idea of temporary bolt-on or maybe even magnetic lights....

But I guess for the record, I'd feel better if you bought some legal pattern lights and welded them to your collectible car, made sure you have all cornering lights and amber reflectors in place, etc. etc. You know, for the record.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

you guys are saying an hid flashlight isn't safe enough, and that he should just stick candles back in his headlamps?

It's not always a question of what's safe-- it's a question of what is the law. The factory original equipment, or exact OEM replacements, comply with the legal lighting requirements at the time of manufacture.

I see antique cars from time to time that have a single taillight-- it's legal because it was legal at the date of manufacture.

If you use lights that comply with neither the requirements at the date of manufacture nor with the requirements that are effective for cars manufactured today, then you are not in compliance with the law.

The single flashlight/spotlight/HID light will produce significant glare for oncoming vehicles and hinder the ability of drivers to identify the type of vehicle it is approaching. Just like when a car has multiple lights burned out, it may appear to be a motorcycle or even a bicycle; a car with a single spotlight being shined out of it will be hard to identify.

Furthermore, most states have laws prohibiting the shining of flashlights/spotlights from a moving vehicle.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

Well, drive with your stockers, then. My favorite idea was get a trailer for it: the only safe way, it seems.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

It's not always a question of what's safe-- it's a question of what is the law. Yeah, I agree, the law is more important than safety. The factory original equipment, or exact OEM replacements, comply with the legal lighting requirements at the time of manufacture.

I see antique cars from time to time that have a single taillight-- it's legal because it was legal at the date of manufacture.

I still think antique cars get that "ohh, what kind of car is that?" slowdown/rubberneck, which helps quite a bit.

If you use lights that comply with neither the requirements at the date of manufacture nor with the requirements that are effective for cars manufactured today, then you are not in compliance with the law.

The single flashlight/spotlight/HID light will produce significant glare for oncoming vehicles and hinder the ability of drivers to identify the type of vehicle it is approaching. But at least drivers can tell that it is some sort of vehicle, as opposed to seeing two candles floating in the air and wondering what exactly that is. By the way, got any pics of these headlights lit up? Just curious how bright they actually are, I'm probably not giving them enough credit... Just like when a car has multiple lights burned out, it may appear to be a motorcycle or even a bicycle; a car with a single spotlight being shined out of it will be hard to identify.

Furthermore, most states have laws prohibiting the shining of flashlights/spotlights from a moving vehicle. God forbid somebody think that you're a police officer driving in a 1911 Buick

Now, all that said, I have already agreed to not suggest anything illegal, so I am seriously suggesting you get a trailer. Retrofitting LEDs, HIDs onto your car is illegal, and I don't suggest doing that. But it will provide useable light and if done right (I suggest projectors) won't blind others. But it's illegal so don't do it.

 

[Joe Kieliszek]

Photo of dad's model 10; The clearcoat on the paint is starting to
lift in places, so the car is pretty much a driver rather than a trailer
queen. Anyway, the only parts to the electrical system (still original
configuration) are a magneto and 6 volt battery-both for powering
the coil located
on the dash inside a varnished wooden box. It is still crank started
(takes 2 cranks-one with the ignition off with the choke closed to
prime the cylinders and the second with open choke on and ignition
switched on to battery. Once the car fires up, the ignition switch can
be turned the other way to "mag". (although it usually runs with a
hotter spark on battery).
I will keep all your ideas and opinions in mind as this idea is kind of
on the back burner. Currently. I've started assembling the chassis of
my model 14 Buick (with a 127 c.i.d. 2 cylinder motor rated at 15 h.p.)
I don't think it will be quite as fast as the 4 cylinder 22 h.p. model 10.
Thanks again,
Joe

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Very nice!

Fully understanding that most of the fun in building a car is DRIVING it, I don't think you should trailer it. But it definitely looks like you could mount some decent headlights on a strong magnet and stick them to the fenders(padded, of course) over the front wheels for the drive home, powered from a deep cycle battery. Wouldn't be too hard to add marker lights and turn signals, too.

:buddies:

 

[DM51]

Beautiful car! Nice to hear it is being driven and enjoyed, rather than stuck in a museum.

 

[Joe Kieliszek]

Thank you;
Brass cars are a sweet drive when everything is in tune but are pure
frustration when something begins to loosen up or wear out..
Anyway, the magnetic fender light idea sounds interesting- I really
don't need more than a half hour of light provided the car is running
as it should.
Thanks,
Joe

 

[Ken_McE]

What a lovely project! I would *so* beg a ride in that car.
I see a few basic directions you can go off in:


1.) I don't know what "Prestolite gas" is or if you can still get it. What about setting them up to burn Propane or Oxy/Aceteline, or Carbide & water or some other readily available gas? Old skool all the way! I suppose you'd need to drive slow. Or you could strap four Coleman lanterns with clear glass to the front bumper, and two kerosine lanterns with red glass to the rear. You'd need to mask the front ones a bit to keep the light down towards the ground.

2.) The space you describe ~ A section of cylinder six inches across by four inches deep is certainly enough space for a modern light. However, I don't know of any off-the-shelf solution. I believe you'll need a custom unit, but that's not difficult. My concern here is that you would be semi-permanently modifying a highly visible part of the car, or that it would be subject to excessive wear from opening and closing it all the time.

3.) I am not familiar with magnetos. Does it produce power the whole time the car is on? Is it reliable? Is that six volts AC? How much power would you have available for your use? Would it be acceptable to run hidden wires to the four corners of the car?

4.) You could swap out the current six volt battery for a deep cycle six volt and use that to power lights. Again though, is running wires acceptable?

5) What about leaving the stock lights alone and clamping or sticking electric lights as needed? My concern here is that magnets strong enough to hold lights might mar the paint. Clamps could be padded.

Do any of the above appeal to you?

 

[-Virgil-]

"Prestolite gas" is an obscure term for acetylene. These are acetylene headlamps. The acetylene is supplied by dampended calcium carbide. See here for detail (though the topmost image isn't a very good representation of the light quality, for the flame isn't adjusted properly).

 

[Joe Kieliszek]

Ken,
Prestolite gas was a brand name of a commercially produced bottled
acetelene gas to power the gas head lamps of early cars. The bottle was
usually strapped on one of the running boards. Prior to the widespread
availibility and use of bottled gas for this purpose, cars were factory
equipped with a "carbide generator" which operated in the manner as
the Wikipedia article to produce acetelene gas. The original running board
(the one farside in the photo) was drilled for the installation of a prestolite
tank. These were usually mounted horizontally with a couple of steel
straps. He even had one of these tanks in with the parts of the car
(it was a basket case when he bought it). We once attached a length
of small I.D. rubber hose to the tank valve and opened it- it still had
some gas in it! Anyway, he opted to install one of the factory issued brass carbide generator tanks on the car during restoration. I've never
operated one these carbide generators or have yet seen the gas
powered head lamps in actual operation.
Anyway, I was thinking about roll forming a 6-1/2" diameter hoop out of some .040 thick by 1-1/2" wide spring tempered steel with tabs so the hoop could easily compress under 6" for insertion into the lamp body. The
light holding apparatus would be riveted to the bottom portion of the
hoop. The brass on the inside of both lamps is painted flat black anyway,
so I'm not concerned with small incidental scratches from occasional
use. If this arrangement doesn't pan out, I would then look into the
clamp on or magnetic fender mount arrangement.
A magneto is an early current generating device (usually an internal
set of field windings with a steel rotor surrounded by 2 or 3 external
u-shaped magnets. Its sole purpose on cars of this period was producing
a current for ignition only. It usually has a distributor and a set of
breaker points at one end and its motor coupling and input shaft at
the other end.
There are quite a few people who use a deep cycle battery inside
of a box mounted on a running board- usually for ignition but also
for accessory turn signals/ add on lights. These are usually people
who do a lot of touring with their vehicles (in the hundreds of miles).
Dad & I usually don't exceed a 10 to 15 mile radius with the model 10,
and I would like to maintain the original appearance of the car.
Thanks,
Joe