Battery issues yet again

[berfles]

Alright, I am really getting ticked off now. I ordered the rechargeable kit for my M30 at BatteryJunction. After a recharge, one of the batteries died and the flashlight obviously stopped working. This happened while I wasn't using it because it was from being fine to not turning on next time I went to use it.

I ordered a single 18500 battery from them a couple months ago and once again I charged them one time and now it just died on me while I was using it. No dimming, no warning, just dead. I put them in the charger and once again only one is showing that it's charging, the other isn't registering and is showing a green light.

http://www.batteryjunction.com/wf139-18500-combo.html

Are these UltraFire batteries garbage or something? If this is going to keep happening I'm going back to CR123 batteries because this is getting ridiculous.

 

[Burgess]

Or . . . .


You could go with AW batteries, and a Pila IBC battery charger.


:cool:
_

 

[berfles]

Or . . . .


You could go with AW batteries, and a Pila IBC battery charger.


:cool:
_

More info on that? I don't know what either of those things are...

 

[Saint_Dogbert]

Yes, where are some good places to buy that Pila charger?

 

[Burgess]

CPF MarketPlace has a thread on Pila IBC chargers:


http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=207433



There's also a thread or two on AW batteries. ;)

_

 

[berfles]

Thanks, I'll have to take a look.

I actually got the other battery to start charging and the light will work again, but correct me if I'm wrong in thinking it would dim before cutting out 100%? I've seen it dim down to the medium setting when the batteries got low, it never just cut out unless one of the batteries was totally dead which seems like something is wrong with them.

 

[Burgess]

This is just me . . . .


First, let me point out that i am certainly not an expert on anything.


But, after reading lots of threads and postings here on CPF,

i would be very reluctant to use a Li-ion battery or charger which seems to be malfunctioning.

:eeksign:


Certainly not in my house. Perhaps out in the garage.


And certainly not un-attended. :shakehead


You DO have a digital multi-meter (voltmeter), don't you ?


Just a friendly, cautionary, heads-up.


Good Luck to you.

 

[old4570]

Look like protected batteries :

1. Over Discharge Protection = If the ODP is cutting in then it will suddenly cut out on you .

2. Without a multimeter , your blind .

3. Your light might have some sort of current drain even when off , again you would need a multimeter to check for this

4. Charging ? again that pesky multimeter

 

[bkumanski]

Sounds like the protection kicked in. I had to "jump start" mine so the charger would register the battery. couple of wires, neg to neg, pos to pos from one good battery to the "dead" one. Bout 3-4 seconds should reset the protection. The Ultrafires I own seem to have this "protection" kick in sooner than my AWs. The Ultrafire charger also can't reset the protection, the PILA may be able to (don't really know). The protected batteries are supposed to prevent bad juju from happening when charging or using the battery dead, but when it does kick in, it can be a little bit of a pain to reset it.

 

[TooManyGizmos]

berfles ,

It seems you are not aware of how protected cells work ......

They may dim some in use - but if you drain one to 2.5v it's protection will open the circuit, and current can no longer flow thru the circuit to operate the light. It will turn off abruptly , but at 2.5v you should have noticed some dimming.

After you drain one to that point , it should take 8 to 9 hours on the charger to reach fully charged at 4.20v . (you may not be charging them long enough - or it could be a charger issue ?)
_____________________________________________________________________________________

Quote of info. from the link you provided :

snip ..... snip ...
"Ultrafire 18500 1600mah 3.7v PROTECTED BUTTON TOP Protected Rechargeable Lithium Battery Li-Ion UF18500

Detailed Description:

This cell is features a button top making it particularly compatible with many flashlight applications.

Rechargeable Lithium batteries are rapidly becoming a very economical way to lower the operating costs of Lithium-Powered flashlights. We offer a number of different options in order to meet any rechargeable needs. These are Protected batteries.

These fully protected cells simplify usage with their integrated PCB. Perfect for your single cell application these cells are not for pack building and should not be welded or soldered on which may defeat pr daamage the PCB protection. If you are building a pack please choose one of our other cells and the appropriate PCB.

Features and Benefits

• Unique and New! With integrated PCB Protection!
• Lithium Ion 18500 cylindrical rechargeable batteries
• Internal PCB protection prevents under-voltage at 2.5V and over-voltage at 4.25V.
• Unique PCB design and patent pending.
• Higher energy density and lower weight than other types rechargeable batteries
• Manufactured under ISO9001-2000 to assure quality
• Battery tested based on International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) standard to ensure capacity, quality and life time
• Lighting or other device needing 3.7V power
• Building portable power device needing high energy density and low weight .."........ snip

_______________________________________________________________________________________

berfles .... since you like to run your lights till they turn off ......

I would like to take this opportunity to advise you NOT to do a couple of things .......

YOU should NOT :
Buy and use any NON-Protected Li-Ion cells in any MULTI-cell light .

Or DON'T even use Primary cells in a MULTI-cell light / unless you can verify that each cell is EQUAL in voltage when you put them in . ( what we call - "matching" cells) You need some type of testing meter to do this.

Only run a light till it turns off - if you are using common consumer batteries, such as Alkaline.
The batteries you are starting to use NOW ....... have Safety concerns in their usage.
.

 

[Mike_TX]

One other thing - if you're going to use Ultrafire batteries (or Trustfire, which I believe are the same thing with a different label), don't pay 30 bucks for them.

You can get a pair of protected Ultrafire RCR123A's for 5 bucks at Dealextreme http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3273, and a charger for another 7 bucks that will charge both 123's and 18650's http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.936 .

$12 is much better than $30, especially for basically the same merchandise.

BTW, I have those exact batteries and charger, and they both work great. The charger stops charging at the right time, and the batteries check out at 4.17-4.19 after a charge.

.
.

 

[ateallthepies]

I have been using both the Ultrafire WF-139 and 138 chargers with no problems. Both always cut off at 4.2 volts or a little less.

As for the grey Ultrafire lithiums I have had problems. I have had one just die and not accept a charge and another that kept tripping in a multi cell incan.

Since then I have bought nothing but AW's and have had zero problems since.

By the way, it's cheaper to buy AW batteries from the states if you live in the UK.

I buy my 18650's separately and this way pay no import duty or vat as it is below the limit plus shipping is free!!

Steve.

 

[LightWalker]

I had a AW RCR123 that would not take a charge so they can fail too.

 

[berfles]

berfles ,

It seems you are not aware of how protected cells work ......

They may dim some in use - but if you drain one to 2.5v it's protection will open the circuit, and current can no longer flow thru the circuit to operate the light. It will turn off abruptly , but at 2.5v you should have noticed some dimming.

After you drain one to that point , it should take 8 to 9 hours on the charger to reach fully charged at 4.20v . (you may not be charging them long enough - or it could be a charger issue ?)
_____________________________________________________________________________________

Quote of info. from the link you provided :

snip ..... snip ...
"Ultrafire 18500 1600mah 3.7v PROTECTED BUTTON TOP Protected Rechargeable Lithium Battery Li-Ion UF18500

Detailed Description:

This cell is features a button top making it particularly compatible with many flashlight applications.

Rechargeable Lithium batteries are rapidly becoming a very economical way to lower the operating costs of Lithium-Powered flashlights. We offer a number of different options in order to meet any rechargeable needs. These are Protected batteries.

These fully protected cells simplify usage with their integrated PCB. Perfect for your single cell application these cells are not for pack building and should not be welded or soldered on which may defeat pr daamage the PCB protection. If you are building a pack please choose one of our other cells and the appropriate PCB.

Features and Benefits

• Unique and New! With integrated PCB Protection!
• Lithium Ion 18500 cylindrical rechargeable batteries
• Internal PCB protection prevents under-voltage at 2.5V and over-voltage at 4.25V.
• Unique PCB design and patent pending.
• Higher energy density and lower weight than other types rechargeable batteries
• Manufactured under ISO9001-2000 to assure quality
• Battery tested based on International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) standard to ensure capacity, quality and life time
• Lighting or other device needing 3.7V power
• Building portable power device needing high energy density and low weight .."........ snip

_______________________________________________________________________________________

berfles .... since you like to run your lights till they turn off ......

I would like to take this opportunity to advise you NOT to do a couple of things .......

YOU should NOT :
Buy and use any NON-Protected Li-Ion cells in any MULTI-cell light .

Or DON'T even use Primary cells in a MULTI-cell light / unless you can verify that each cell is EQUAL in voltage when you put them in . ( what we call - "matching" cells) You need some type of testing meter to do this.

Only run a light till it turns off - if you are using common consumer batteries, such as Alkaline.
The batteries you are starting to use NOW ....... have Safety concerns in their usage.
.

I don't "like" to run them down until the light shuts off, I just don't feel like pulling them out every few days and testing them with a multimeter. Again, I thought the light would dim before going completely dead, but I guess I'm wrong in assuming that. There was no dimming, just cut off.

So I'm guessing with these that it's better to "top them off" every now and then?

 

[PhantomPhoton]

I don't "like" to run them down until the light shuts off, I just don't feel like pulling them out every few days and testing them with a multimeter. Again, I thought the light would dim before going completely dead, but I guess I'm wrong in assuming that. There was no dimming, just cut off.

So I'm guessing with these that it's better to "top them off" every now and then?

Yes, for that particular light with 2 cells there won't be any dimming, it'll just shut off when the protection circuit in one cell activates.

Yes again, it's better to recharge the cells after a a certain amount of use. First because it's better for the longevity of LiIon cells. Second because if you really need the light as a tool, and not a toy you know that you'll have a decent amount of runtime.

As for the original post, I'd say that buying ultrafire cells is a crapshoot. Quality varies considerably. And I'd agree that if you choose to use LiIon cells you're going to need a multimeter. It's a good investment toward your own safety.

 

[jp2515]

Or . . . .


You could go with AW batteries, and a Pila IBC battery charger.


:cool:
_

Excellent choices, a highly regarded battery/charger combo

More info on that? I don't know what either of those things are...

Do a Search, there are lots of topics on the Pila IBC charger in the Battery Forum

CPF MarketPlace has a thread on Pila IBC chargers:


http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=207433



There's also a thread or two on AW batteries. ;)

_

Ah the Marketplace, good place fo find AW batteries (direct too) and Pila IBC chargers (new from dealers or used)

 

[bkumanski]

BTW, the WF-139 will not jumpstart a protected battery (there is another thread on this elsewhere) no matter how long it is on the charger. If it seems dead, its because the protection has tripped and a small voltage spike will reset it (ie my "jump-start" method or a low amp DC source with similar voltage). Remember only do this for a few seconds MAXIMUM.