Break in for LSD Ni-Mh? (if so, 'test' or 'refresh' to do it?)

[subwoofer]

As LSD Ni-Mh batteries come charged and ready for use, do you need to run a break-in cycle on the charger as soon as you get them, or would you simply use them and maybe run a break-in on the first recharge?

It seems wasteful to immediately discharge and charge them when they come ready to use...

If it will give them better performance and a longer life it will be worth it.

My charger, the Technoline BL-700 has a 'test' mode which will top up, discharge, then charge and a 'refresh' which would discharge then recharge several times until there is no increase in capacity. Which one would you use to break-in LSDs?

 

[s0lar]

I would do a break-in AFTER first use. They have about 75% of rated capacity when unpacked.
A 0.1C charge for 14 to 16 hours and a discharge followed by another 0.1C charge forms the cells. It can also be done with a slow charger if you do not own a MAHA C-9000 for example. I occasionaly charge my batteries with an overnight charger and my fastest charger is 0.3C.

 

[xoomercom]

I would do a break-in AFTER first use. They have about 75% of rated capacity when unpacked.
A 0.1C charge for 14 to 16 hours and a discharge followed by another 0.1C charge forms the cells. It can also be done with a slow charger if you do not own a MAHA C-9000 for example. I occasionaly charge my batteries with an overnight charger and my fastest charger is 0.3C.

According to many articles on the web charging below .33C is actually bad for your battery with the exception of a Break-In mode provided by a Smart Charger.

 

[vali]

According to many articles on the web charging below .33C is actually bad for your battery with the exception of a Break-In mode provided by a Smart Charger.

It is not bad by itself, but the risks of a missing termination make it not worth at all, IMHO.

 

[xoomercom]

It is not bad by itself, but the risks of a missing termination make it not worth at all, IMHO.

Exactly

 

[45/70]

My charger, the Technoline BL-700 has a 'test' mode which will top up, discharge, then charge and a 'refresh' which would discharge then recharge several times until there is no increase in capacity. Which one would you use to break-in LSDs?

Hi sub. Unfortunately, your Technoline BL-700 is incapable of performing a "forming" or "break-in" charge. A forming charge consists of charging the cell at a 0.1C rate (1/10th the capacity of the cell) for 16 hours. A break-in sequence follows this by performing a 0.2C discharge (1/5th the capacity of the cell), followed by another 16hr 0.1C charge.

The best way to approximate a forming charge that I've found, is to locate an old "dumb" NiCd charger that charges cells at (but not above), or just below 0.1C. If the charger charges at a rate below 0.1C, the time will have to be extended accordingly.

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just use your cells normally. If you keep them active, you shouldn't run into any problems. Forming and break-in charges are most useful for cells that don't get used/mostly discharged often and/or are stored for long periods. With the advent of LSD technology, this is somewhat less of a problem.

Dave

 

[TakeTheActive]

...do you need to run a break-in cycle on the charger as soon as you get them, or would you simply use them and maybe run a break-in on the first recharge?

It seems wasteful to immediately discharge and charge them when they come ready to use...

Many folks run an initial DISCHARGE to check for 'Duds', and then a BREAK-IN to confirm Capacity and check for variances.

 

[mikevelarde]

Many folks run an initial DISCHARGE to check for 'Duds', and then a BREAK-IN to confirm Capacity and check for variances.

I've just done that to my 3 packs of 4XAA eneloop with a manufactured date of 12/2007 with my 2 C-9000. using the discharge function first then doing a break in . The 3rd pack is still doing the dicharge function while I'm typing this.

the discharged capacity is // break-in (avail capacity)

A1 1352 mah 1982 mah
A2 1349 mah 2016 mah
A3 1371 mah 1989 mah
A4 1349 mah 2001 mah

B1 1337 mah 1986 mah
B2 1340 mah 1961 mah
B3 1317 mah 1995 mah
B4 1340 mah 1962 mah

 

[fishinfool]

I've just done that to my 3 packs of 4XAA eneloop with a manufactured date of 12/2007 with my 2 C-9000. using the discharge function first then doing a break in . The 3rd pack is still doing the dicharge function while I'm typing this.

the discharged capacity is // break-in (avail capacity)

A1 1352 mah 1982 mah
A2 1349 mah 2016 mah
A3 1371 mah 1989 mah
A4 1349 mah 2001 mah

B1 1337 mah 1986 mah
B2 1340 mah 1961 mah
B3 1317 mah 1995 mah
B4 1340 mah 1962 mah

Wow, 2 over 2000mah already. :twothumbs I have 28 AA'a and 20 AAA's eneloops and not 1 was over the 2000mah or 800mah mark after a break-in. The closest one was 1999 and 799. I did have 2 duraloop AAA's go over (800 , 804) but none of the AA's.

What was your discharge rate? 500mA? Just curious. Thanx.

.

 

[mikevelarde]

Wow, 2 over 2000mah already. :twothumbs I have 28 AA'a and 20 AAA's eneloops and not 1 was over the 2000mah or 800mah mark after a break-in. The closest one was 1999 and 799. I did have 2 duraloop AAA's go over (800 , 804) but none of the AA's.

What was your discharge rate? 500mA? Just curious. Thanx.

.

For the discharge cycle. I use the 500 ma setting!:thumbsup:, for the break-in. I think it is 0.2 C or 400ma!

 

[mikevelarde]

the third batch of 4 x AA eneloop is done!

Here is the discharge capacity out of package and the Break-in (available capacity) after running it in my C-9000


discharge capacity ///// Break In (available capacity)

C1 1315 mah 1968 mah
C2 1317 mah 1944 mah
C3 1337 mah 1959 mah
C4 1324 mah 1943 mah

 

[march.brown]

I never do any of the 'Break In' cycling on any of my LSD (precharged) batteries ... Personally I think it is a waste of my time and money ... I realise that the batteries will improve with a break-in , but in my case it isn't important that I get the last few milli-ampere-hours out of them.

I charge my LSD cells up when I get them (whether they need it or not) and just use them in rotation ... When they are showing signs of being discharged (or when I think they are) I put a new set in ... By the time I have used them a few times , they are OK.

Before I had the LSD cells , I had a routine of charging all my NiMh cells every couple of months and it was a pain in the proverbial ... I did this for many years ... Now I am using Eneloops and other LSD cells , I charge them up after use and put them back into storage (at room temperature).

I realise that there are battery users that actually need to get the last fraction of energy out of their batteries , but luckily not me.

In the car , I use lithiums as they will tolerate my type of treatment ... They will be tested whenever I remember though the spare cells will just remain there in the glove box till eventually needed.

I always (now) carry an iTP A3 on each of my two keyrings plus an iTP A2 in my pocket ... All of these use Eneloops ... I don't carry spares on my person as they are kept at home ... I doubt whether all three torches will fail at the same time , but if they do I will just have to put lithiums in from my spares that are kept in the car.

Over the years I have used several types of rechargeable cells and have had very few failures ... I can't remember the last time that a NiMh cell failed ... I have now given all my non-LSD cells away and they are still in use in the Grandchildrens toys ... They get a lot of use and mis-use and yet are still hanging on ... My Son-in Law is now into Eneloops and will gradually be retiring my old non-LSD batteries just as I did ... The old batteries were all from Ebay and were all lesser-known or unknown makes ... Nowadays , I stick with Eneloops , Hybrios and GP Recyko.

I hope the RSPB (Royal Society for the Protection of Batteries) don't find out about my cruelty to batteries.
.

 

[vali]

I dont cycle my LSD either. I only do a discharger and Break-in the first time I get them to check if they are counterfeit.

In case I get some "odd brand" cells, I do a discharge + Refresh&Analize to check the charge wen bought and find the "real" capacity of the cell. Then I discharge again and do a Break-in using the "real" capacity and just use and charge again when needed.

The only extra thing I do is a full cycle every now and then. Trying to get free of regular NiMH too.

 

[fishinfool]

the third batch of 4 x AA eneloop is done!

Here is the discharge capacity out of package and the Break-in (available capacity) after running it in my C-9000


discharge capacity ///// Break In (available capacity)

C1 1315 mah 1968 mah
C2 1317 mah 1944 mah
C3 1337 mah 1959 mah
C4 1324 mah 1943 mah

These numbers look a little lower than the first 8. Do they have different date codes? Just curious. :thinking:

.