Buying a used flashlight

[Photogr]

Hi all, I've been lurking here for some time learning what I can about flashlights. My journey has led in many different directions and ultimately told me that I can't get the utopian light I was hoping for. In fact, I've changed my mind so many times that I'm kind of dizzy to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I love all this information available to me and am a firm believer in researching before I buy. I just didn't realize before I began this journey that it would take so long.

I found a local guy selling a Foursevens Maelstrom X10 For $60 with battery and charger. Seems like decent price if it's in as good condition as described, which is like new and hardly used.

The reason for coming out of the closet is I'm wondering about buying a used light and if there are specific things to look at and check for, possibly specific to this light. Also, if anyone believes I'm making a mistake I'd rather here it now vs finding out later.

The reason I'm buying a light began as a need to provide artificial light for my night photography commonly referred to as light painting. I began looking for the ultimate long throw light, but have decided to hold off on that for now. I see this functioning as a medium power, light weight torch which represents a good trade between weight and throw. The only thing that seems negative to me about the light is the color which may be a little to cool for my needs. Preferably I'd like something on the warm side of natural. Other than that it seems to be a good compromise to my layman eyes.

In addition to the above questions, my last one has to do with modding potential. If it turns out that the light is too cool for me, is it possible or easy to modify it to something warmer? Is it as simple as adding a gel to the lens, or is it much more involved?

 

[Norm]

:welcome:

Moved to LED Flashlights - Norm

What to post in the General Flashlight Discussion Sub Fourum.

 

[dc38]

If you have access to image processing tools, you can easily adjust the tint of the lights. Also, you can play around with the image settings on the camera until you get the desired effect. Keep in mind that many flashlights may have a spill, which may pollute your picture overall.

 

[Photogr]

:welcome:

Moved to LED Flashlights - Norm

What to post in the General Flashlight Discussion Sub Fourum.

Thanks for the welcome and setting me straight Norm!

If you have access to image processing tools, you can easily adjust the tint of the lights. Also, you can play around with the image settings on the camera until you get the desired effect. Keep in mind that many flashlights may have a spill, which may pollute your picture overall.

Thanks dc38. I understand that I can use photoshop to modify the color of the light, but I'd rather have it correct before I take the shot. It remains to be seen how much effort this will take and it could end up being anywhere from a deal breaker to a non-issue.

I'm not sure what you mean by spill, unless you're referring to the light outside the main throw beam. I thought this was called the flood area, but perhaps not. In the worst case I can wrap a piece of paper around the lens to create a snoot which will block the light spill. I'm not new to light painting and have gotten pretty good at it. My tools to date have been my old 2 cell AA and DD Mag Lights which do a good job as long as the target is relatively close. However, I do realize that with a light so much more powerful than what I'm used to there will be a learning curve associated with optimizing its use.

 

[pjandyho]

You might want to consider something that throws well, like the Armytek Predator V2.5 (non-programmable) or Predator Pro V2.5 (programmable output). You would definitely prefer something with multiple output options so you could easily compensate for different exposure, especially when balancing the painted exposure with ambient light if any and the Predator V2.5 offers that. They do offer an optional series of color filters and diffuser so you could control the beam and color if needed. Armytek Predator V2.5 is available brand new for $85.95 from Armytek's website and includes free shipping via FedEx or DHL. Some other dealers might be able to offer you lower rates but you will have to pay for shipping so you need to do your maths to decide where you should purchase it from. For this price, I am not entirely sure if you should still buy a used unit but it's your call.

Alternatively you could opt for the Viking and Viking Pro V2.5. They are the same as the Predator series except that they come equipped with XM-L2 LED which has a bigger LED die and produces a floodier beam, but compromises on the throw.

All of these models are available in both cool white and warm white so you could decide on the tint as well.

 

[Photogr]

Thanks pjandyho! I took a look at both lights, neither of which I had considered before. I could be mistaken, but I don't find them worth the increased cost, which with battery and charger is more than double what this Maelstrom is going to run me. The color filters sounds like a good option though and as time goes on it may be something for me to consider. I'm hoping that if it becomes necessary for me to have I can modify the light with a gel to achieve the same result. The multiple output is also a nice feature, but I don't see it worth doubling the cost. The Maelstrom does have two power outputs which should prove adequate. When you're light painting you have control over how much light gets painted to a large degree by the amount of time the light is applied to the subject.

Can anyone tell me about buying a used light? Are there specific things to look for, or is it as simple as if it works and appears clean then it should be fine?

 

[TEEJ]

One thing to consider for light painting, to me, would be the tightness of the beam.

There are aspherical lensed lights that have SUPER tight beams.

A normal reflector based light, such as you are used to, has three primary beam components: The hot spot, the corona, and the spill.

The hot spot is the most collimated and intense part of the beam, and the part that makes it out to the maximum range with the sharpest outline.

The corona is the less collimated part of the beam, typically appearing as a donut around the hotspot. This is a part that falls off more rapidly with distance, and can be fairly defined or fairly soft in outline, depending on the light's specific focus, etc.

The spill is the unfocused light that essentially missed the collimation altogether, and is just spilling out to the sides with no definition or outline.

An aspheric light, in contrast, has only the hot spot, and, its shaped like the LED itself, with the beam working like a slide projector beam...projecting a picture of the LED onto distant objects. There is typically no corona or spill to speak of.


The sharpness of the led in the projection can typically be focused in/out, so to make it more, or less, defined.

If I were to do light painting, I would view an aspheric lensed light as my pencil point, as that would be my sharpest, most well defined point of light shy of a laser.

There are aspherics with larger, and smaller beam angles and lumen outputs and beam sizes, etc....and you could find a used version of almost any of them. The Deerelights are pretty reasonably priced for example, and Vinh makes some small inexpensive versions as well once in a while.

 

[carrot]

Can anyone tell me about buying a used light? Are there specific things to look for, or is it as simple as if it works and appears clean then it should be fine?

Since most of the flashlights that gain high regard here have excellent warranties provided by manufacturer it is not usually a big deal to buy a used light.

Over on CPF Marketplace (a separate forum) people buy and sell used lights all the time.

Beyond that the Maelstrom X10 is a fantastic light and one that I really enjoy owning. It has a nice tight beam but not one too tight and I think it would do a fine job of light painting for you. The good thing about Foursevens is they offer a 10-year warranty on their lights against any defect or malfunction you may encounter.

There's nothing really to look out for when buying this light (Maelstrom X10). There are so few moving parts, no fragile click switch, and the mode switching is purely in electronics, so if it switches modes at all it's generally going to be working correctly.

The batteries are fairly inexpensive on their own should you need to replace it and the charger is also covered under Foursevens' warranty.

 

[Photogr]

Thanks TEEJ! I had to look up a few of those terms, but now have a much better understanding than before. When I was in my research mode, I stumbled on to aspherical lights and thought for a time that they were the way to go. However, I decided to hold off for now as I'm not certain that they are right for what I need. It could be they are perfect, I'm just not sure. Where I'm at right now is that I likely need several lights to fulfill my needs and an aspherical may be my best bet for long range which this purchase isn't addressing.

Since you brought them up, one of the question I have is the size of an aspherical beam at distance. I'm a landscape photographer. When I'm out at night, I might be shooting the stars over a mountain or hill side, say a mile away. (if that's too far for any light then assume it's closer. It's not important to the question.) I'm wondering what the size of the beam is at that distance. The I reviews I read said the beam was very tight, approx. 10' square at a distance of 100 yards. So while the focusing capability is exactly what I need to get the most reach, the beam if it remains this tight will be way too small to be useful.

As I understand, these lights also have a focus capability. So does that mean that the beam spreads out more if it’s unfocused? So the 10' square could be made larger?

 

[Photogr]

Thanks carrot! This is exactly what I was hoping to hear. Very much appreciated!

 

[carrot]

As I understand, these lights also have a focus capability. So does that mean that the beam spreads out more if it’s unfocused? So the 10' square could be made larger?

Probably the most knowledgeable person here is Saabluster, who is the king of throw. He also makes the DEFT line of lights. Here's an explanation of how this stuff works... http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Real-Reason-for-Throw-an-in-depth-examination

 

[pjandyho]

Thanks TEEJ! I had to look up a few of those terms, but now have a much better understanding than before. When I was in my research mode, I stumbled on to aspherical lights and thought for a time that they were the way to go. However, I decided to hold off for now as I'm not certain that they are right for what I need. It could be they are perfect, I'm just not sure. Where I'm at right now is that I likely need several lights to fulfill my needs and an aspherical may be my best bet for long range which this purchase isn't addressing.

Since you brought them up, one of the question I have is the size of an aspherical beam at distance. I'm a landscape photographer. When I'm out at night, I might be shooting the stars over a mountain or hill side, say a mile away. (if that's too far for any light then assume it's closer. It's not important to the question.) I'm wondering what the size of the beam is at that distance. The I reviews I read said the beam was very tight, approx. 10' square at a distance of 100 yards. So while the focusing capability is exactly what I need to get the most reach, the beam if it remains this tight will be way too small to be useful.

As I understand, these lights also have a focus capability. So does that mean that the beam spreads out more if it’s unfocused? So the 10' square could be made larger?

At a mile distance, most of the lights are going to be quite useless. An Olight SR95s UT might get you something but it's going to weigh like hell and cost you many times more than the Maelstrom X10. Definitely it is going to be a lot bigger than the X10.

Back to your question about buying used. Lights from FourSevens are pretty robust and their design is so simple it is hard to damage so you should not have much of a problem buying used. You should have no issues with modifications on the emitter and there are folks in CPF who does solid job modifying lights. One guy I can think offhand is VinhNguyen. Basically you might want to check on reflector and lens condition to make sure that they are clean. I am not sure if it has to do with me being in the tropics but most of my FourSevens lights have a tendency to fog on the inside of the lens so you might want to check that out. Also, make sure that there are no cracks on the lens since the surface area of the lens on the X10 is quite large and may suffer from crack if dropped.

I am assuming that all the electrical contacts are functioning, but if you would like to be more careful you might want to check to make sure that the tail negative contact spring is intact and the light does indeed light up. A photo proof is best.

Have some lube and cleaning kit ready to clean off the old lubrication and any other forms of oxidization that might have taken place previously and make sure that all contacts are clean. Most issues with failure starts from a dirty contact point thus resulting in a poor path of conductivity. Hope this helps.

 

[dc38]

OH! forgot to mention, unless you want a strobe dotting effect when the exposure is left open, try to stay away from pulse width modulated lights. They basically flash on and off at a very high frequency to 'regulate' output. When viewed through a camera, you'll see a trail of dots. Again, something you either want or don't want.

 

[pjandyho]

OH! forgot to mention, unless you want a strobe dotting effect when the exposure is left open, try to stay away from pulse width modulated lights. They basically flash on and off at a very high frequency to 'regulate' output. When viewed through a camera, you'll see a trail of dots. Again, something you either want or don't want.

In light painting, the camera is actually recording the light that is reflected off the subject, and since the hotspot is quite big and adding to the constant movement of the light to paint over the area, because of the broader coverage of the beam being photographed off the subject as compared to photographing off the LED emitter itself, PWM will have negative impact on the final outcome of the photographs on such long exposures.

**Corrections**
what dc38 has said does carry some truths to it which I had overlooked. It very much depends on what sort of light painting one is doing. If for example one is drawing an outline on a person being photographed, the light would be traveling pretty fast with the emitter facing directly towards the camera. In such an instance, PWM may show up here.

 

[Photogr]

Thanks pjandyho! So for a layman like myself, my inspection should include an overall condition inspection of the outside with emphasis on the lens and reflector to check for cracking and scratches. Unscrew everything I can and visually inspect contacts, o rings, spring(s) and other internal parts and ensure they too are in clean working order. Turn on the light and make sure it functions according to spec, and that's basically it?

The thing about light painting is that it doesn't take very much light to alter a photograph. We’re talking about much less light than would be perceptible by eye. The camera shutter can open for as long as necessary letting light in the whole time. The trick, just as in painting, is to provide an even amount of light on all areas. I threw out a mile just as a matter of convenience, but the distance is really irrelevant. Obviously, every light will have a point where it will not perceptibly reach the target, and what ever flashlights I amass over time will have to be tested for range and effectiveness.

 

[Photogr]

OH! forgot to mention, unless you want a strobe dotting effect when the exposure is left open, try to stay away from pulse width modulated lights. They basically flash on and off at a very high frequency to 'regulate' output. When viewed through a camera, you'll see a trail of dots. Again, something you either want or don't want.

I assume you're not talking about a strobe which the blinking is seen by eye like on bike lights, but that a very rapid pulse which is not seen by eye. I was not aware of this, so this is great information. How do I tell if a light has this capability or not? pjandyho is probably right that it's not normally an issue in that the process to light paint is usually slow and the overlap large. However, it is definitely good to know so as not to get unexpected results. Sometimes if the subject is close and the light too powerful a very quick sweep is necessary. That would give unexpected results if it were pulsing.

 

[pjandyho]

Thanks pjandyho! So for a layman like myself, my inspection should include an overall condition inspection of the outside with emphasis on the lens and reflector to check for cracking and scratches. Unscrew everything I can and visually inspect contacts, o rings, spring(s) and other internal parts and ensure they too are in clean working order. Turn on the light and make sure it functions according to spec, and that's basically it?

The thing about light painting is that it doesn't take very much light to alter a photograph. We’re talking about much less light than would be perceptible by eye. The camera shutter can open for as long as necessary letting light in the whole time. The trick, just as in painting, is to provide an even amount of light on all areas. I threw out a mile just as a matter of convenience, but the distance is really irrelevant. Obviously, every light will have a point where it will not perceptibly reach the target, and what ever flashlights I amass over time will have to be tested for range and effectiveness.

Yes that is basically all you need to check for. From what you have described, it does sound like you are able to physically inspect the unit as opposed to buying online? If that's the case just make sure the threads are ok and not damaged.

I am not sure what medium you are using for your shoots. With film you have the luxury of doing super long exposures by the hours. On digital, noise would start popping up after about 10 minutes of exposure. If you are, let's say for example, photographing a mountain against a star trail, you may need to combine multiple 10 to 15 minutes exposure to complete the star trail. In such a case you may want the most powerful light possible to light up the mountain in the first take.

 

[carrot]

How do I tell if a light has this capability or not?

Turn the light on and flail your arms around like a crazy person. You will be able to see a trail of dots if there's PWM. Unfortunately my X10 is at home and I cannot check it for you but I'm certain the high mode doesn't have it for sure. Selfbuilt's reviews usually mention if a light has PWM as well.

 

[Photogr]

Yes that is basically all you need to check for. From what you have described, it does sound like you are able to physically inspect the unit as opposed to buying online? If that's the case just make sure the threads are ok and not damaged.

Great, thanks again!

I am not sure what medium you are using for your shoots. With film you have the luxury of doing super long exposures by the hours. On digital, noise would start popping up after about 10 minutes of exposure. If you are, let's say for example, photographing a mountain against a star trail, you may need to combine multiple 10 to 15 minutes exposure to complete the star trail. In such a case you may want the most powerful light possible to light up the mountain in the first take.

Exactly!

 

[pjandyho]

I assume you're not talking about a strobe which the blinking is seen by eye like on bike lights, but that a very rapid pulse which is not seen by eye. I was not aware of this, so this is great information. How do I tell if a light has this capability or not? pjandyho is probably right that it's not normally an issue in that the process to light paint is usually slow and the overlap large. However, it is definitely good to know so as not to get unexpected results. Sometimes if the subject is close and the light too powerful a very quick sweep is necessary. That would give unexpected results if it were pulsing.

LED lights uses two types of regulation to ensure a flatter output out of the duration of the battery's life. Constant regulation as the name suggest, is constant, and is what you should preferably have. The other regulation method is Pulse Width Modulation, and PWM uses fast strobing to regulate power. Some lights with PWM pulses so fast it is hard to detect and some so slow it is annoying. Maelstrom X10 uses constant regulation and you should have no worries here.

If you are buying another model, there are various ways you could check if the light is using PWM. You could check by turning on the live preview on the cam. If there is pulse width modulation, you will see a long dotted or perforated strip of highlight running across the vertical axis of the LED light source. Alternatively, do a few seconds exposure on camera and shake the light vigorously with the LED pointing at the camera. A light on PWM will produce a picture with dotted streaks instead of a complete line of light.