cell phone stalkers?
- Thread starter raggie33
- Start date
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
TedTheLed
Flashlight Enthusiast
a quick google search skimming the articles tells me if it's true it is extremely rare, and that it is probably not true, and that it is probably a hoax with the 'victim' family in on it.. we'll see..
BIGIRON
Flashlight Enthusiast
But their tinfoil helmets protect them from real harm.
light_emitting_dude
Flashlight Enthusiast
Heard that story on the radio on the way to work. It just dosen't sound quite right how much control this "stalker" has over their cell phones. I suspect they are after publicity or money and I smell HOAX!
greenlight
Flashlight Enthusiast
I bet they pick up mostly just TV chatter.
Manzerick
Flashlight Enthusiast
I believe there are too many variable but, believe it may be possible.
There are ways to remotly power on and off a customer unit but, is the camera able to be controled remotly? and if so, will it do so without the user knowing?
Plausable but not probably in my opinion!
There are ways to remotly power on and off a customer unit but, is the camera able to be controled remotly? and if so, will it do so without the user knowing?
Plausable but not probably in my opinion!
Ken_McE
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 1,689
You may want to remember that the newspaper reports were somewhat vague and fuzzy. There may be something going on here, but it may or may not be what we have been told. If some rotten kid is able to spy on them through their phones you'd think he'd go down to the local financial district and start looking for tips on what stocks to buy, make himself a millionaire instead of farking around and yukking at the neighbors.
Coop
Flashlight Enthusiast
Definately not true, unless the 'victims' installed specialty software on their phones to allow remote access, it cannot be done. Also, not that many phones are capable of videostreaming, and the network has to support it too. Also, watching a cellphone camera wouldn't do much good, as most phones are in a pocket or bag most of the time, and if not, how about putting the phone cam down on a table?
Datasaurusrex
Enlightened
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2003
- Messages
- 665
Well, if true this sure didn't take long:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/23/t...gin&adxnnlx=1185163853-uijVv8ireQKlC5JdCL/v6g
"IPhone Flaw Lets Hackers Take Over, Security Firm Says"
By JOHN SCHWARTZ
Published: July 23, 2007
"A team of computer security consultants say they have found a flaw in Apple's wildly popular iPhone that allows them to take control of the device...
Dr. Miller, a former employee of the National Security Agency who has a doctorate in computer science, demonstrated the hack to a reporter by using his iPhone's Web browser to visit a Web site of his own design.
Once he was there, the site injected a bit of code into the iPhone that then took over the phone. The phone promptly followed instructions to transmit a set of files to the attacking computer that included recent text messages — including one that had been sent to the reporter's cellphone moments before — as well as telephone contacts and e-mail addresses.
'We can get any file we want,' he said. Potentially, he added, the attack could be used to program the phone to make calls, running up large bills or even turning it into a portable bugging device."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/23/t...gin&adxnnlx=1185163853-uijVv8ireQKlC5JdCL/v6g
"IPhone Flaw Lets Hackers Take Over, Security Firm Says"
By JOHN SCHWARTZ
Published: July 23, 2007
"A team of computer security consultants say they have found a flaw in Apple's wildly popular iPhone that allows them to take control of the device...
Dr. Miller, a former employee of the National Security Agency who has a doctorate in computer science, demonstrated the hack to a reporter by using his iPhone's Web browser to visit a Web site of his own design.
Once he was there, the site injected a bit of code into the iPhone that then took over the phone. The phone promptly followed instructions to transmit a set of files to the attacking computer that included recent text messages — including one that had been sent to the reporter's cellphone moments before — as well as telephone contacts and e-mail addresses.
'We can get any file we want,' he said. Potentially, he added, the attack could be used to program the phone to make calls, running up large bills or even turning it into a portable bugging device."
TedTheLed
Flashlight Enthusiast
yeah but, 1. you have to go to a certain malicious website to get infested, or be tricked into going there 2. no one, according to apple, has been affected by the flaw 3. they say they have a patch to fix it already...so, new?
Datasaurusrex
Enlightened
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2003
- Messages
- 665
1) there's a trick that hackers use at public wifi spots that can get people to visit any 'certain page' they want them to. They mention part of the trick on the video that explains the iphone hack, but they don't go into detail about how the initial trick is done (it's easy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M26sur1YAL4&eurl=http://www.securityevaluators.com/iphone/
Use of public WIFI = risk of being diverted to an unfriendly website of a hackers choosing.
2) Umm, they just found it. It exists, give it time and someone will exploit it, just as when folks discover a vulnerability with Windows. Find... lagtime... capitalize. Regardless, the potential is there for such things as: running up phone bill, turning on camera, turning on real time tracking, etc.
3) Yeah... sure... first thing Monday morning.
From what the article said Apple does not have a patch, but Charles A. Miller (a security analyst for a separate company, not Apple) has "recommended a software patch that could solve the problem."
Apple's response was by Lynn Fox who said ""We're looking into the report submitted by I.S.E. and always welcome feedback on how to improve our security."
So, no patch is currently available for download afaik. A solution has been suggested to Apple, but not implemented.
btw, I'm not implying that this kind of problem is solely an Iphone issue. As the article said, pretty much any cell phone that approaches the features of a real computer will potentially suffer from the same sort of issues.
I'm also not saying "they sky is falling, Iphones suck." I'm just pointing out that cell phone are becoming more and more a liability, in regards to personal privacy and information security. It is indeed possible to use them for bugging and tracking people, without their knowledge.
TedTheLed
Flashlight Enthusiast
interesting, thanks.
I agree. However, there are a few simple things one can do, like getting a cellphone without an operating system that may be vulnerable to outside interference, or at least switching off bluetooth and WLan when you don't need it. Not that different from using a computer actually, just stick to a few precautions and always assume they're out there trying to get you ...
Another thing I do is to use two cellphones - one that I only use for my family and some close friends, and one with a prepaid card that I use for everyone else. Makes life a lot easier, especially when you're occasionally dealing with people you don't really trust all that much.
Hans
Datasaurusrex
Enlightened
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2003
- Messages
- 665
I agree. However, there are a few simple things one can do, like getting a cellphone without an operating system that may be vulnerable to outside interference, or at least switching off bluetooth and WLan when you don't need it. Not that different from using a computer actually, just stick to a few precautions and always assume they're out there trying to get you ...
I agree, but we live in a world where most people don't take basic precautions such as 1) using "strong" passwords 2) changing passwords regularly.
Another Iphone vularability has come to light, potentially affecting those who use the iphone to access yahoo mail.
http://blog.dave.cridland.net/?p=32
Not exactly true. Most modern phones have the built in capacity to act as an electronic bug. They can be remotely activated, without adding any additional software -- the phone only has to be turned on.
Activation of the bug feature can be via a text message, or a phone call.
The bug features will remain on even if the phone is powered off (it can continue to transmit voice and location).
The Federal government has used these phone features several times already to pursue suspected criminals. To be fair, I have not heard of a case where the features were enabled by a private citizen (black hat / hacker).
I also think the incident that Raggie mentiones is a hoax. Probably connected with the juveniles living in the home. It'll be interesting to hear how this plays out, if we ever get the real story.
hank
Flashlight Enthusiast
Datasaurusrex
Enlightened
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2003
- Messages
- 665
http://www.politechbot.com/docs/fbi.ardito.roving.bug.opinion.120106.txt
UNITED STATES of America, v. John TOMERO, et al., Defendants.
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-6140191.html
"The FBI appears to have begun using a novel form of electronic surveillance in criminal investigations: remotely activating a mobile phone's microphone and using it to eavesdrop on nearby conversations."
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/4239e29e-02f2-11da-84e5-00000e2511c8.html
"If ordered to do so, mobile telephone operators can also tap any calls, but more significantly they can also remotely install a piece of software on to any handset, without the owner's knowledge, which will activate the microphone even when its owner is not making a call, giving security services the perfect bugging device. "We have inadvertently started carrying our own trackable ID card in the form of the mobile phone," said Sandra Bell, head of the homeland security department at the Royal United Services Institute." *(it's my understanding, based on other articles, that some features can be activated via text message, no need to load additional software)
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061203-8343.html
"Cell phones are capable of providing more information about us and our whereabouts... now the FBI has begun using them for eavesdropping—even when they are turned off... We have known for some time that anyone carrying a powered-on cell phone can have their physical location easily tracked." (*some new phones can be tracked when powered off from what I hear, it takes removal of battery to disable tracking)
No tin foil needed, but I do guess that there always more abilities than are stated in news articles. I figure just add about 40-60% of tech capacity/ability to whatever gets reported.
Funny how Iphone gets all the press, when this phone seems much more revolutionary: www.openmoko.com
Pretty cool, tons of potential... Open source Linux
(left openmoko... right Iphone)
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/first-look-the-antiiphone-openmokos-neo1973-236841.php
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartpho...d-they-have-a-time-machine-or-what-229243.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgUZSwOWMEM
It's a little big for my tastes: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/sizemodo-iphone-vs-openmoko-neo1073-229294.php
But these guys are totally on the right track. It'll be real interesting to see what comes down the pike in fall when it's commercially available. I'm guessing it'll end up with easy ways to do things like disable E911 tracking and such.
UNITED STATES of America, v. John TOMERO, et al., Defendants.
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-6140191.html
"The FBI appears to have begun using a novel form of electronic surveillance in criminal investigations: remotely activating a mobile phone's microphone and using it to eavesdrop on nearby conversations."
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/4239e29e-02f2-11da-84e5-00000e2511c8.html
"If ordered to do so, mobile telephone operators can also tap any calls, but more significantly they can also remotely install a piece of software on to any handset, without the owner's knowledge, which will activate the microphone even when its owner is not making a call, giving security services the perfect bugging device. "We have inadvertently started carrying our own trackable ID card in the form of the mobile phone," said Sandra Bell, head of the homeland security department at the Royal United Services Institute." *(it's my understanding, based on other articles, that some features can be activated via text message, no need to load additional software)
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061203-8343.html
"Cell phones are capable of providing more information about us and our whereabouts... now the FBI has begun using them for eavesdropping—even when they are turned off... We have known for some time that anyone carrying a powered-on cell phone can have their physical location easily tracked." (*some new phones can be tracked when powered off from what I hear, it takes removal of battery to disable tracking)
No tin foil needed, but I do guess that there always more abilities than are stated in news articles. I figure just add about 40-60% of tech capacity/ability to whatever gets reported.
Funny how Iphone gets all the press, when this phone seems much more revolutionary: www.openmoko.com
Pretty cool, tons of potential... Open source Linux
(left openmoko... right Iphone)
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/first-look-the-antiiphone-openmokos-neo1973-236841.php
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartpho...d-they-have-a-time-machine-or-what-229243.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgUZSwOWMEM
It's a little big for my tastes: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/sizemodo-iphone-vs-openmoko-neo1073-229294.php
But these guys are totally on the right track. It'll be real interesting to see what comes down the pike in fall when it's commercially available. I'm guessing it'll end up with easy ways to do things like disable E911 tracking and such.
