Cold weather rechargables?

LEDBE
Buck91

Buck91

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
1,761
Location
USA
Well, now that winter is all but upon us, I figure its a good time to decide which rechargable chemistry will work best in cold to very cold conditions.

We all know that lithium primaries are the best, but I'm not made of money and would like to figure out which light will be the most economical to operate as both an EDC as well as a bike headlamp for commuting (its looking like the later will see approx. 2hrs of use per week).

The three choices are Li-ion rechargables, NiMH and LSD NiMH. Which one tends to work best in low temps (0-30 degrees F), given the cells are decent and in good condition? My experience has been that the NiMH are fairly robust, and even with a sagging voltage tend to work alright still. The Li-ion (protected) tend to sag under load and get cut off by the PCB too quick. Which would you guys recommend? And FWIW, has anybody found a better source of low cost, high quality CR123a batts than batterystation.com (50 made-in-usa cells for $60 shipped)?
 
Buck91 said:
Well, now that winter is all but upon us, I figure its a good time to decide which rechargable chemistry will work best in cold to very cold conditions.

We all know that lithium primaries are the best, but I'm not made of money and would like to figure out which light will be the most economical to operate as both an EDC as well as a bike headlamp for commuting (its looking like the later will see approx. 2hrs of use per week).

The three choices are Li-ion rechargables, NiMH and LSD NiMH. Which one tends to work best in low temps (0-30 degrees F), given the cells are decent and in good condition? My experience has been that the NiMH are fairly robust, and even with a sagging voltage tend to work alright still. The Li-ion (protected) tend to sag under load and get cut off by the PCB too quick. Which would you guys recommend? And FWIW, has anybody found a better source of low cost, high quality CR123a batts than batterystation.com (50 made-in-usa cells for $60 shipped)?
Click to expand...

Hmm, Since you indicate that price is a factor, maybe a bit more information is useful. For example, you must have some LED flashlights already, yes? Do you desire any battery compatibility between your existing flashlights and any proposed EDC and bike riding light? The common bike riding light does not EDC very well. A suggestion is to purchase a mount for one of your existing flashlights and save the cost of any new light. Several web stores have bike mounts. Both Lighthound and 4Sevens Fenix-Store have bike mounts.

As for CR123 cells, a search in CPF for CR123 cells would reference quite a few brands along with comments. Primarily (pun!) I would use Silverfox's CR123 shootout in the sticky at the top of the forum to understand the tradeoff between runtime and price.

As for cell type, I use CR123, RCR123, RCR18650, normal AA NiMH and low self discharge NiMH cells. Unless you need the top brightness in the smallest package, I would suggest the LSD form of AA NiMH cells. AA NiMH cell chemistry is the simplest in operation, widely available (eg:www.thomasdistributing.com) and discharge gracefully - meaning you are not left in the dark (protected) or damage a cell (unprotected) when caught with inadequate charge for the ride.
 
All other aspects are covered. Currently using a AA powered L1Tv2q2 on my helmet for around-town (adding my modded cat eye for off road fun).

I also have a Ultrafire C1 that I just got from DX which I think would be phenominal as a helmet light, but it runs on 2xCR123's/1x18650/2xrcr123 as well as a little one cell AA light which I modded with a Q5 and higher output driver which will runn on either li-ion or NiMH (much brighter on li-ion).

I have all my bases covered, including redundant light sources as well as extra cells and light mounting hardware; just haven't seen any good info on which rechargable chemistry handles low temps the best.
 
li-poly , and li-ion for recharge, untill they get hydrogen fuel cells or nuclear going :)
But then i live in california, what is cold anyways :)
 
So, I guess nobody really has a good suggestion. I think I'm just gonna pick up a pair of AW RCR123's and spacers for my 139 and see how it works out.
 
You've got to be kidding.

Not only is the energy density of lead acid rediculous but its well over 100 year old technology. Come on. These have got to be some of the weakest replies I've ever had! Sorry, not trying to be an *** but its true :(
 
There is another cold weather thread in this forum that basically said that lithium-ion rechargeables were not good for sub-zero (celcius) because the electrolyte freezes.

Here it is...created a couple of weeks ago.
 
No, I'm not kidding. Lead Acid is the best rechargeable for cold weather. The only type I know of that will work down to -40C (-40F) and frequently do so in vehicles and all other types of equipment in the frozen north.

And you my friend are quite rude and inconsiderate. You're one of those types that just expects answers on a plate. As stated there have been other threads, 2 at least recently talking about the same thing, you obviously never tried to search.

But I thought I'd save you some time and just give you a quick answer anyway.. and then you scoff at it in disbelief and call my reply "weak".

Not exactly the best attitude to have when asking for help.
 
I'm rude; ok, I'll buy that :)

But I certainly don't expect a quick answer on plate. I've been digging around (I did miss that cold weather thread) these forums, as well as other web sites and simply have not found a good answer. Further frustrations mounted when I got VidPro's non-sensical answer. Unfortunately, you were next in line with a less than useful reply as well. I was hoping to get a good discussion going, but it seems that possibily was buried early on. Too bad :(
 
I have put a li-ion 16650 Lg cell, and a microlight using a coin cell lithium into the deep freezer, which measures about -13*F , not extreeme when it comes to deep freezers, but that was as cold as i could simulate.
turned both of them ON, and put them in the freezer for longer than 1 hour, when i opened it up, i checked the temp with a thermal probe to see if it had aquired the freezer temps, and it had, both units were working as if nothing really changed.
ALTHOUGH
i have felt that even during a very cold walk at night at >32*F that they seemed a bit weakened, and that the flashlight wasnt putting out enough.

if your electrolyte is freezing which isnt consistant with the solvent like electrolyte in the sony and lg modles, mabey try a different cell type?

the specs for that stuff say about 20* below zero Celcius i believe, but i bet it would be having troubles before that even.
in those kinds of temps, you also have issues of condensation when changing to inside too, so that can also be a concideration, then you really will have a "wet Cell" :) Lead Acid will work, Well below freezing indeed, when it CHARGED, its important to keep it that way, which works good in autos and all that the battery stays charged, once discharged it can freeze.
 
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Well, from what I've seen and read, li-ion (protected) can have issues in cold weather due to voltage sag under load and the PCB kicking in. Couple this with potential for charging while hte cell is still cold and you can get lithium plating on the electrodes. Very dangerous.

I know NiMH works just fine when its cold, albeit with slightly shorter run times. I've going to experiement with Li-ion this year and see how a pair of AW rcr123's function in my Ultrafire C1 (helmet light; too spotty for bars). If it works out, great. Otherwise I'll switch back to my L1Tv2 with duracell pre-charged.

... I wonder if Nite Rider has any operating temp ranges for their MiNewt series...
 
Buck91 said:
I'm rude; ok, I'll buy that :)

But I certainly don't expect a quick answer on plate. I've been digging around (I did miss that cold weather thread) these forums, as well as other web sites and simply have not found a good answer. Further frustrations mounted when I got VidPro's non-sensical answer. Unfortunately, you were next in line with a less than useful reply as well. I was hoping to get a good discussion going, but it seems that possibily was buried early on. Too bad :(
Click to expand...

To get a good discussion going, the participants need to be able to handle answers that they do not particularly care for. Also, when the answer is no, it does little good to flog the bearer of bad news.
 
Hei buck9! - a low weight thing to add to the battery packs is to make a little pouch out of several layers of space blanket. Alternate space blanket material with plastic sandwich bags. wrap the battery inside to keep the wind out. Keeping the battery warm is a time tested strategy used with great success by NASA.
-j hopkins
 
Hmm... interesting idea. I wonder if that was part of the consideration by Cat Eye for the neoprene bag for my Triple Shot battery pack :confused:
 
Anyone likely to be working for prolonged periods in extreme cold conditions should consider a light with an umbilical power supply, where the battery pack can be kept warm beneath a layer or two of clothing.

It is also worth noting that some electrical leads/cables can become very stiff and even brittle in extreme temperatures, and can crack or even snap. Leads with silicon rubber insulation are less prone to these problems.
 
Watched that show 'Ice Road Truckers' a few times. These guys and the folks
who maintain the road are the ones who could give us some tips on cold weather battery hacks.
 
I have no experience with these, but I have seen Low Temperature NiMH a few places, such as batteryspace.com. They are typically lower in capacity. The AA is listed as 1500 mAh.

Along the same line, I know I have come across NiMH that claim to be better for high temperatures. Again, I have no experience with those either.
 
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