Companies forcing consumers to upgrade

[Carabidae]

I just have a rant. It's annoying how companies come up with something "new" and it's not any better than the old, or may not be necessary, just to milk as much money out of the consumers as possible. Of course there are a million different examples of this, and simply due to a capitalist system. It just bugs me how companies like Microsoft force consumers to upgrade by making software only compatible with their newer operating system. For example, Halo 2, it can only played on vista, and I'd rather not upgrade to vista, not only is it "too" user friendly and annoying to use, it offers very little in the way of actually being worth the upgrade other than nice looks and "overfunctionality". Halo 2 could definitely run in XP otherwise. It's the same thing with the newest office program, and no doubt others will follow after being strong armed by Microsoft. I'm sure some remember the whole windows millennium fiasco. The other thing is college books, the publishing companies simply rearrange some pictures, add a few paragraphs, call it a new edition and charge outrageous prices. Call it ironic that many colleges no longer have independent bookstores but are now owned by big book companies like barnes and noble. Now I can understand some things are constantly evolving like the science field where the new information is essential in books, but how much does the field of history change to warrant a new edition every year. Unfortunately the bookstore also doesn't buy back books if a new edition is out, even if the professor is not using them or planning to use them. The bookstore then only gives the professor the option to order the new edition since that is all they supply. Of course for some people, the change is good although it sucks for those of us that are happy with the current state of the products. It just doesn't keep those in charge from pursuing more of all mighty dollar.

 

[jtr1962]

Yep, it seems that the old philosophy of "build it well so it lasts a lifetime" has been replaced with planned obsolescence and/or requiring accessories. Look at inkjets. The cartridges ensure a steady income stream. Now that inkjet is starting to die out, printer makers are using the same business model with laser printers via chipped and/or small toner cartridges. It's one thing if new really is better, but in many cases new is just needed because of planned obsolescence. Many things aren't even easily repairable like they used to be.

The only way to change things are to change buying habits. Don't run out to get the "latest and greatest" the second it comes out. Stay away from cheaply made products with planned obsolescence in mind, or products designed to ensure the seller a steady income stream (i.e. why can't a TiVo work just like a VCR instead of requiring a monthly payment), or overpriced gimmick items (i.e. prepackaged one-serving foods). In fact, as a general rule, don't buy new at all unless new is definitely better. We'll have more money/less unnecessary landfill if more people adhered to this philosophy.

Consumers are only milked if they let themselves be milked.

I'll also add that one reason these marketing strategies are used more nowadays is because most people already have more than enough material things. To get them to buy things otherwise might require a totally new product which does something they need to do in a new way. It's much harder to do that then to just repackage the same old crap along with clever advertising. It seems even the movie industry has gone that route with so many remakes lately.

 

[RA40]

"Durables" aren't what they used to be. I'm still using a HP 5P laser printer and my older computers were well built machines...keep them going for 5+ years wasn't a sweat. Now, I replace a floppy drive (A near useless device these days) every 8-10 months. Hardrives, I replace about every 1.3 years simply from the capacity factor. CD/DVD drives almost annually. Save for the case, everything else just dies or is too slow or small.

 

[Carabidae]

Both your comments remind me of another issue, lifetime warranties. When you hear that, you're pretty much thinking forever, or as long as you have your whatever. Lifetime warranties only apply to the lifetime that the product is manufactured. When considering computer poducts, such as memory, you're dealing in terms of months and after that, well your 160 dollar stick of memory is a paperweight, but I guess that's the way it goes.

 

[knot]

a capitalist system. ]

"Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other political and economic system in the history of man"

Falling Leaf Systems has announced that they will be providing compatibility software that will allow Halo 2, an exclusive Vista title, to run on Windows XP - http://nikon.bungie.org/news.html?item=18626

DirectX 10 for XP: http://www.nukescripts.net/modules.php?name=News&op=NEArticle&sid=3885


A Midwestern Perspective on Politics and Economics

DEMOCRATIC

You have two cows.
Your neighbor has none.
You feel guilty...............

Edit: Copyrighted material replaced by link in order to comply with copyright laws and CPF rules

Admin note to Knot: Please read the rules fully. Also, please reconsider the injection of politics into nearly all Cafe threads in which you participate. The Underground is the acceptable place for political discussion.

 

[Carabidae]

"Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other political and economic system in the history of man"

That's true, there's no dissagreement there, but the money comes from somewhere, that's the consumer, and sometimes as consumers, we have to put up with this stuff.

I like your funny analogies there.

 

[jtr1962]

I'll also add that many "capitalist" companies which had the build it to last a lifetime philosophy did very well indeed. Planned obsolescence is a relatively recent phenomenom. Planning with income streams in mind has only become prevalent the last ten or so years. I think the reason for both is companies weren't satisfied with simply making a reasonable dollar for a fair day's work so they got increasing greedy. Or perhaps just ran out of ideas (given the copy-cat mentality in the market place plus the poor education system producing uncreative employees that seems likely as well).

 

[Kiessling]

Either way, it is sad.
And unfortunately can't be avoided in most cases. Think Windows Vista. We will be using it since all new hardware will require it and old software wojn't be supported any longer.
THis means, after our current computers dies their planned deaths at young age ... it will be Vista.
I hate it.

bk

 

[Carabidae]

I think the reason for both is companies weren't satisfied with simply making a reasonable dollar for a fair day's work so they got increasing greedy.

They definately have gotten greedy, it's rare that companies take a hit to their profit margin (or even a slight decrease) rather than fire 2000 people. (Or like circuit city, firing long time employees and offering thier jobs back for minimum wage). I think the big part of it is that companies aren't considered viable by other companies, shareholders, etc., if they arent growing, and in the past growth was easier. Now, growth that occured in the past is just not possible yet they try to make it that way. Unfortunetly this affects many things from people losing thier jobs to scrounging whats left of resources. A lot of this comes from the base of many companies, shareholders which of course are only in it to make money, so I guess it is greed.

Or perhaps just ran out of ideas (given the copy-cat mentality in the market place plus the poor education system producing uncreative employees that seems likely as well).

Good point, I think this and the fact that you can't step out the door or sing a song without infringing on somone's copyright or patent, even for ideas that arent even put to use. I think the planned obsolescence allows companies to shift responsibilites to others, for example, your inkjet cartridges, they want you to send them back so they can reuse them, but do they offer postage? It's all about making more money.

 

[knot]

Without capitalist's competitive incentive, we could all be running something like windows ME for the rest of our lives. :huh:

 

[Carabidae]

Without capitalist's competitive incentive, we could all be running something like windows ME for the rest of our lives. :huh:

No doubt, it drives innovation, but it's a mystery why something like ME would even come out at all.

 

[jtr1962]

No doubt, it drives innovation, but it's a mystery why something like ME would even come out at all.

That's actually one of my beefs about capitalism-the plethora of "junk" products which exist solely to make money. Just look at all the impulse buy crap near the checkout counters. None of this stuff is really made to last long. It's just designed to extract yet more money from consumers while they're paying for whatever else they bought. Soon after it's purchased, it usually ends up as landfill.

As for ME, that's another good example. It didn't improve upon Windows 98. MS just wanted to get income before it had XP ready by making people think it was an upgrade. It is a perfect example of another product which never should have been.

 

[mrichelo]

give up gaming and switch to Linux. It is free.

 

[Empath]

Knot, please review the changes that have been made to your posting.

 

[knot]

Edit: Copyrighted material replaced by link in order to comply with copyright laws and CPF rules

Admin note to Knot: Please read the rules fully. Also, please reconsider the injection of politics into nearly all Cafe threads in which you participate. The Underground is the acceptable place for political discussion.

Knot, please review the changes that have been made to your posting.

More likely Fair Use. I have seen it posted in many places and copied it in notepad without thinking of saving place of origin since the place I got it never said who authored it.

Capitalism isn't about politics. It's about economics.

"Nearly all threads" lol. I think knot. Count them. Perhaps two or so. If even that. I'm not trying to start arguments but capitalism was brought up by the OP. Isn't it ok to comment on that without being accused of "injecting"?

Threads are like any conversations. They ebb and flow on topic and off. It's human.

The underground? 3 people online does not make that an acceptable place to have any dialog - in a timely frame.

I will pay closer attention to my posting habits.

 

[Carabidae]

give up gaming and switch to Linux. It is free.

Thats what my girlfriend tells me too! I will when I'm old, however, it's not the cost, it's the principle. Vista is available to me at no cost anyway, but I still like XP, I'm opposed to forcing the public to use vista just becuase they want to use another product.

 

[cave dave]

The bicycle industry is pretty bad too. The replacement parts they sell aren't for parts that have worn out like those 6 speed chains and freewheels for old reliable, oh no those are hard to find. The replacement parts available at bike shops are for upgrades. Its easy to find 10 sp replacemnet cogs though even though they just came out. Next year everything will be 11spd. The new stuff is thinner and less durable but thats OK just buy a new disposable carbon fiber bike. Fine enough for racers but a good bicycle should be able to last a lifetime.

 

[270winchester]

the Windows systems are notorious of compatibility issues.

The cost of upgrading a particular software to a new version of Windows is often prohibitive to all but the biggest of software companies with armies of CS interns. My GF's Dad's company is dying because his company does not have the sheer capital to upgrade the software for the machinery to the next new Windows platform.

I've never been a big fan of MS, and this is not helping.

 

[ringzero]

Yep, it seems that the old philosophy of "build it well so it lasts a lifetime" has been replaced with planned obsolescence and/or requiring accessories. Look at inkjets....The only way to change things are to change buying habits...Consumers are only milked if they let themselves be milked.

Gillette is often credited with developing, or at least refining, the "refill" business model. Don't know if it's really true or not. Supposedly he came up with the idea of selling his safety razor at a loss, knowing that customers would provide a steady income stream for each safety razor he sold. In other words, he realized he could make a stable income by selling the refill blades, not the safety razor itself.

Of course we could avoid this trap by using straight razors and strops to touch them up when necessary. My Grandfather still shaved with a straight razor into the 1990s.

.

 

[mrichelo]

Microsoft in my opinion is the least cooperative company I can think of. I personally feel, that if they are the largest software company in the world, maybe they should do more for the common good. I think they can afford.

I guess what bothers me the most, besides my feeling that their software is inferior to other solutions out there, is that they don't work with standards, when other entities/groups create standards Microsoft makes their own version... defeating the whole purpose of creating a standard in the first place. Any web designers out there? You know what I'm talking about.

For the record I use Apple products, and while they are not perfect (almost lol) I just think they work better. OS X Tiger will still run on a G4 made in 1999, try that with XP of Vista.

My apologies for the rant if I'm OT.

Mark