Concern over Surfire

[slmpd6454]

I have been a loyal Surefire customer for over 6 years, since my first day on the job in law enforcement.

I recently sent my two 9AN rechargeable flashlights in for service because of some minor problems with the charger not working properly. Secondly both lights would flicker when shaken. I was not the least bit upset because they have worked flawlessly for the last 6 years and I chalked it up to the normal abuse handed down by a city police officer.

I went out and purchased a new LED L5 Lumamax to hold me over until my old faithfuls arrived. Love it by the way; however the battery runtime is a little misleading.

About a month later I received the repaired lights and found something to my surprise... the lights and charger were not repaired. The charger would not even turn on and the both lights worked at a very dim levels with unfocused beams. I have used these lights for years and it was not because the cells were low, they ran at the above-described output for over an hour.

How did this happen? How can lights which were sent in for repair come back in worse condition as when they were sent in. How could a bench test prior to shipment not find the obvious malfunctions. I was very dissatisfied and concerned that Surefire is becoming to commercial and possibly loosing the quality standards which originally attracted me to their product.

In addition, they have proposed a variety of new lights and still have only seen one released as of this month... the Backup. And why they are still have not gone to Lithium Ion rechargeable cells is beyond me.

I may be just venting as I had some poor service in this last go around, and it is the first time this has happened. I just hope my concern is just an isolated incident and they are not loosing touch of what sets them apart.

Any thoughts from the community? Hopefully you all can prove my thoughts wrong.

 

[Monocrom]

Some swear by SF customer service. Others have been sadly disappointed. Ironically, there doesn't seem to be an in-between.

 

[LukeA]

Your experience seems a little uncharacteristic based on what I've read, but I don't own any Surefire lights or have experience with their CS.

I do, however, have first-hand experience with Pelican and the 7060 and a positive experience with CS on that light's battery. That light might be right up your alley. Cree LED, very bright, li-ion rechargeable battery, cradle charging with the battery in the light.

I'm not trying to sway you, I just have my own positive experiences with a competing product, i.e. I'm not Surefire-bashing. Hope it works out for you with SF. Most of the CS stories about Surefire are good.

 

[LSJones]

Have you called them? Also are bulbs and batteries the originals? I've carried Streamlights as my primary duty light for the past 25 years, but had a Surefire in my pocket since the early 90's. Surefire lights have always been my favorites.

 

[CRESCENDOPOWER]

LSJones has the right idea. You need to call them, and tell them what you told us. Give them a chance to make it right for you, and if they don't there is always the option of talking to someone higher up. After that if you're still not happy check out the Jeers forum.
Welcome to CPF LSJones! :welcome:

 

[SolarMan]

I dont think you're telling us the whole story. I say that because YOU said:

"I was very dissatisfied and concerned that Surefire is becoming to commercial and possibly loosing the quality standards which originally attracted me to their product."

so, if you were relaying the story as you pretend to, you would have naturally said "I am very dissatisfied"...

With a company as big as surefire mistakes will happen. It is true with Microsoft, IBM, Apple, Wal*Mart, Exxon, etc...

Even with small establishments mistakes happen. Sometimes even more often that with the biggies. Mom&Pop, Mr. Mikes Pastry's, Davio's Ristorante, Backwater state police...

The question is Who Makes it Right better than SureFire?

(I think you already called them and know the answer.........)

:candle:

 

[dig-it]

I dont think you're telling us the whole story. I say that because YOU said:

"I was very dissatisfied and concerned that Surefire is becoming to commercial and possibly loosing the quality standards which originally attracted me to their product."

so, if you were relaying the story as you pretend to, you would have naturally said "I am very dissatisfied"...

With a company as big as surefire mistakes will happen. It is true with Microsoft, IBM, Apple, Wal*Mart, Exxon, etc...

Even with small establishments mistakes happen. Sometimes even more often that with the biggies. Mom&Pop, Mr. Mikes Pastry's, Davio's Ristorante, Backwater state police...

The question is Who Makes it Right better than SureFire?

(I think you already called them and know the answer.........)

:candle:

Geeeez, lighten up Francis.

 

[Monocrom]

(I think you already called them and know the answer.........)

Let's give the OP the benefit of the doubt. One (possible) mistake in vocabulary is not enough to show disingenuousness.

 

[Yucca Patrol]

Surefire has a fantastic reputation and makes fantastic metal cases for aftermarket drop in LED's from Hong Kong.

Sadly, they are not very fast to adopt new technology, so all of their stuff is typically several generations behind other manufacturers. If they would use current generation LED's and offer lights that could use AA and other common batteries, I probably wouldn't buy a flashlight from anyone else.

But they don't, so I enjoy their flashlights on occasion when I am willing to burn up a CR123 or two, but I go to my other flashlights for every other situation.

 

[kramer5150]

Did you try calling their CS department to make it right? That would be more productive than posting a thread here.

Surefire is a supplier to US military agencies (Berry Amendment compliant). Their designs are going to (largely) center around:
A) whatever batteries those agencies make commonly available to their servicemen.
B) whatever parts and sub-components they can source from USA suppliers.
So, if US military agencies do not make available RCR123 cells, there is no use designing for that.

I have no problems with PK taking his time, perfecting his designs. I don't think any of us know nearly enough about this industry, and doing business with the US government to question the new product introduction cycle.

As a manufacturer, You can easily wire transfer cash over to some fabrication house in China. They can easily silk screen your logo on the side, dress it up as a "tactical" product, and package it fancy too look like a rugged, life-saving tactical illumination tool. Many flashlights fall into this category. Theres nothing wrong with that IMHO, and thats why you see so many new lights every other month coming from overseas.

However you need to realize that is not Surefires business model. They are an equipment supplier to US soldiers around the world, and that requires added R&D, prototyping, field testing, and re-designs during the development cycle for a new product. They are designing products that the US government will be using to protect its soldiers in the line of fire.

Heck, I own a SuperFire "tactical" flashlight and IMHO its a good light for the $$$. It gets every bit as much use as my 6P. However, the R&D in products like this is very minimal at most, and they don't undergo nearly the amount of durability and MTBF testing that Surefire puts into each of its designs.

Pretty simple really... no need to be concerned. I bought a 6P confidently knowing it will last 2-3 decades... at least.

 

[Monocrom]

Surefire has a fantastic reputation and makes fantastic metal cases for aftermarket drop in LED's from Hong Kong.

Sadly, they are not very fast to adopt new technology, so all of their stuff is typically several generations behind other manufacturers. If they would use current generation LED's and offer lights that could use AA and other common batteries, I probably wouldn't buy a flashlight from anyone else.

But they don't, so I enjoy their flashlights on occasion when I am willing to burn up a CR123 or two, but I go to my other flashlights for every other situation.

Every single negative point you've brought up has been discussed too many times to count. But just to recap....

If Surefire wasn't so good at making lights, no company from China would bother making LED drop-ins for Surefire lights.

Surefire's main customer base is the Military, followed by Law Enforcement. Two groups that don't give a damn about the Latest & Greatest technology that comes down the pipe. They care about proven technology that works under the worst conditions. Technology with a track record. (Something you never get when it comes to new technology, or the Latest & Greatest).

I doubt all of their technology is behind the times. The L1 Cree is one example. Cree-based lights are still current technology. Even some of Surefire's older models are still King of the Hill. Inova's recent upgrade of their T1 model is considered to be a Poorman's L4. And all it does is compete with that model; not surpass it. The "old technology" L4 is still King of the Hill when it comes to a compact light that puts out a wall of light. To get better performance, you either have to spend more money, or go to a bigger form-factor.

Surefire knows how to get the best performance from CR123 cells. Those cells are actually very common among their largest customer base.... The Military. Why spend R&D money and time to make a light that uses AA cells, when your biggest customer base isn't demanding such a light? From a business standpoint, it makes no sense to waste funds on such a project.

 

[Yoda4561]

And yes, to reiterate what others have said above, CALL, do not email, customer service and tell them what's up. Their email system seems agonizingly slow at times but when you call you'll get a person on the phone and hopefully get things sorted out.

 

[aussiebuddha]

Surefire has a fantastic reputation and makes fantastic metal cases for aftermarket drop in LED's from Hong Kong.

Sadly, they are not very fast to adopt new technology, so all of their stuff is typically several generations behind other manufacturers. If they would use current generation LED's and offer lights that could use AA and other common batteries, I probably wouldn't buy a flashlight from anyone else.

But they don't, so I enjoy their flashlights on occasion when I am willing to burn up a CR123 or two, but I go to my other flashlights for every other situation.

+1 mate, +1

 

[SureAddicted]

Sadly, they are not very fast to adopt new technology, so all of their stuff is typically several generations behind other manufacturers.

I'm just curious on how you came to this conclusion? Several generations behind? Please explain.

Steve

 

[joshwang]

Surefire has a fantastic reputation and makes fantastic metal cases for aftermarket drop in LED's from Hong Kong.

Sadly, they are not very fast to adopt new technology, so all of their stuff is typically several generations behind other manufacturers. If they would use current generation LED's and offer lights that could use AA and other common batteries, I probably wouldn't buy a flashlight from anyone else.

But they don't, so I enjoy their flashlights on occasion when I am willing to burn up a CR123 or two, but I go to my other flashlights for every other situation.

If you want the latest and newest technology, a Surefire is not for you. However, if you what you want is a reliable tool, you won't regret it. P.S. This may change with the new U2A and U2B...

 

[Kabible]

I'm as dissapointed as slmpd6454. My beloved L4 work light, has flickered off/on for about 2 years. I've sent it in twice with well written discriptions of the symptom and how to duplicate it, also explaining that if the KL4 head is placed on my E2e body/tail/battery unit, the symptom persists.
Twice, I received the light back with new batteries (much appreciated) and a new TAIL CAP/SWITCH. The latest switch is a much improved new design.
However, the KL4 HEAD still flickers because the problem is in the -HEAD-.
I did call SF before the 2nd repair attempt in order to dialog with a live person and addresed the package (with enclosed letter) to that person.
Upon receiving the light back the 2nd time, turning it on, tapping the -HEAD- with my finger and watching it flicker, I again called SF to praise the new switch and complain about the problem being in the KL4-HEAD- and not in the switch. Finally, the nice gentleman offered to send me a new KL4 -HEAD- but exlained that it might take 2 weeks as they were backordered.
After more than a month, I called SF and spoke to a nice woman who said that they don't send out KL4 heads because they are too expensive (?). She would look into the matter and call me back the same day (yesterday). No call back.
OK. Yesterday afternoon, I ordered a D-Mini Q2 to replace the piece of Surefire L4. I Plan to install the wonderful new SF switch into the D-Mini's tail cap. I'll probably sell the L4 body and take the KL4 -HEAD to the range and put a .20 caliber hole through it.

NO MORE SUREFIRE PRODUCTS FOR ME!

 

[DM51]

This may or may not have started as a bashing thread, but it has been taken that way and others have joined in with irrelevant interventions to the point where it no longer has any particular direction.

It is going nowhere sensible, so I'm closing it now.