CQ AR Light

[wwwprof]

Thinking about a SF X400 for my AR to be used in CQ. Do you guys who have a CQ setup use a light/laser combo or do you just prefer the light? Are there any other I should consider. I'd probably like to stay under $500. Thanks.

 

[dss_777]

X400 has bad switchology for a rifle.

 

[scsmith]

The Surefire X300/X400/X300 Ultra are great on a long gun in stock form if they're mounted in the right place. You can also get remote pressure switches for them if you need to mount it somewhere that you can't easily access the stock switch. I prefer light only, but that's just me. For CQ use you might also want to look into a Millennium Universal weapon light so you use a floodier P60 or D36 drop-in (depending on the head).

 

[wwwprof]

It seems to me that the laser would make sense for the application. Meaning that if it's low light, the laser would probably be the easiest/quickest to come on to the target.

 

[dss_777]

I'd think that fighting in low light first demands enough white light to ID target and beyond. Sure, laser is nice to have, and very effective, but comes at a cost. The x400 is 170lm, a third the output of the newer P2X single output at 500lm, and at three times the cost. Not sure it's worth dealing with that switch and giving up a lot of white light just for the laser...

Ultimately, training's more important than gear here, IMO, and will show you the limitations/utility of what you've chosen.

 

[wwwprof]

The switch may be cumbersome, but if you want to run a light and laser then you have to deal with two mechanisms. I certainly agree on the training aspect. Probably will have to run different configs and see which is the most efficient.

 

[dss_777]

Not trying to argue, just stimulate some thinking about this.

By "efficient" you mean what, exactly? Here's my thinking:

To see things clearly? Lots of white light is my answer.

To get that light on under the stress of deadly force encounters? Light placed where you can reach it without contortion and/or shifting grip on rifle. Support hand thumb activated, and a simple clicky switch. Light goes on, target ID'ed and processed, follow threat to the ground, be aware of what else/who else is around. Constant on and bright light assists the need to evaluate situation and effect of your intervention.

While a laser is awesome for low light work, if you have to give up the laser to get the kind of light needed for what I described above, it's probably a reasonable trade-off. The X400 currently has a very low white light output compared to recent offerings in reliable weapons lights.

Also, keep in mind, the Surefire X400 laser is a civvie legal version, and therefore lower powered than is available to mil/LE. I don't know this personally, but from what I've heard that's a limiter.

 

[wwwprof]

I appreciate the questions as it helps me to refine my thinking.

I am considering this in terms of activation, evaluation (of the situation), and acquisition (of the target). For activation, I am thinking of support hand button as I am not a fan of wires. With the use of a light and separate laser, however, I don't know how practical it would be to have to turn two separate units on, especially is a stressful situation. For evaluation, I have read (don't remember where) that too bright of a light can have a negative impact in small rooms. I don't recall the exact figures discussed, but I think they were saying that over 400lm could negatively impact sight in tight areas. I have a Fenix PD32 and at least I don't find it troublesome but maybe it would be different using it with a rifle in a different application. In regards to acquisition, I like the idea of just having to put a dot on the target without having to try to line anything up in terms of sights. I have a laser on my nightstand pistol (with a handheld light available in close proximity) which seems to work pretty well for me.

 

[Grizzman]

Trying Tapatalk on the new phone, and it sure is different than the old one.

I'd say that under most circumstances, for most users, both a laser and a light on a defensive rifle is not a good idea. A better solution is a light positioned with switch at support thumb position and a red dot sight.

If you want to know how many lumens is too much in your environment, you'll need to do testing yourself. set your alarm for 3 am on a weekend (if you have them off), get out of bed and walk your house with the light. The first time you turn it on you'll know if it's too bright.

Grizz

 

[dss_777]

I'd that's a reasonable test if we were discussing a hand-held "bump in the night" light. However, this is a rifle-mounted light, so better to do the run through the house with it. It helps me to keep in mind that in this scenario, you've had the time to get a weapon in hand, make it ready, and go to work. Not too many people are still going to be sleepy and/or groggy at that point. Maybe it's just me getting older, but more is better these days for really seeing what I'm looking at.

I'd think the best test would be to get to a low-light course and see how that works in that setting. It's gotta be interesting to see what happens after a shot or two. Ideally, we could all attend a low-light shoot-house course, but I realize that's asking alot.

 

[Grizzman]

I did mean to say test with the light attached to the rifle, and make the search as realistic as possible. If it is expected to also be taken outdoors to check property, then that should be tested also.

grizz

 

[dss_777]

Got it. I just think the "too bright indoors" arguement is over-stated. I don't know about you, but if I have a loaded weapon in hand, I am wide awake :eek: no matter what the hour. And, I'd hope, fully prepared for the intensity of my WML, as well as any bright flashes of light that may follow.

Fortunately, I don't have to do this for a living. As such, I'm satisfied with a Malkoff M61 on the AR. But if starting over, the single output Fury would be hard to turn down.

Of the guys that do this professionally, some clearly prefer the 500 lumen X300 Ultra and/or Fury based on real-world and shoothouse experience, and no one complains about having too much light. If you haven't already, check out the lightfighter.net Training AAR's section. Enlightening reports! ;)

 

[wwwprof]

I checked out Haley's youtube video on the Inforce WML. That seems like another to consider. I suppose it will come down to trying a couple of these to see what works best (for me). Thanks for the replies.

 

[Novan3]

X400 has bad switchology for a rifle.

That's where the XT07 tape switch comes in.

The X400 makes a great AR light, I have one on the 6 o'clock and happy with this current setup.