CR123's and 18500's Compatible?

Portland Jon

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
21
Location
Portland, UK (The Original One)
I have just bought a Lumens factory D26 EO-9 lamp assembly and plan on using it in a home made lamp fixed onto my rifle for hunting at night. I haven't made it yet but plan on using it with a 9.6V 2700mA/h NiCd battery pack.

I am also thinking of getting a Surefire 9P or clone and using the lamp in it, I have the 380 lumen model. Please can someone tell me if I can use 18500's in these flashlights or are the batteries a different size to the 123's?

Thanks

Jon
www.silencers4u.co.uk
 
Unfortunately 18500s wont fit in a standard surefire body, you need to have it bored out to a little over 18mm.

Another option is to go to Lighthound and put 'leef' into the search box, you will find a whole range of 18XXX SF compatible bodies.
 
Welcome to CPF, Portland Jon!

I suggest you look at the Wolf Eyes Raider 9AX or 9HX. These have the same body, but the HX might be useful for you as it has a cable pressure switch which you can attach to your rifle's foregrip. You can then switch the light on and off just by squeezing the pad, without moving your hand. The AX version has a standard "clickie" tailcap switch (you can order a separate clickie tailcap if you want both options). Do NOT get the 9DX turbo head model as there are no Lumens Factory LAs which will fit in it.

You can order Wolf Eyes gear from PTS in the USA here:
http://www.pts-flashlights.com
Mike at PTS is very helpful. USA prices are much better and CPF members get a discount, but you will have to pay for shipping and (probably) UK Customs charges too. Still well worth it IMO.

Alternatively, as you are UK based, you could order from Wolf Armouries in London:
http://www.wolfarmouries.co.uk
However their website is completely useless and it is better to order from them by telephone.

Battery sizes: A good reason in favour of the WE 9AX is that it will take 2 x 18500 rechargeable Li-Ions or 3 x CR123A primary cells without needing to change the LA. Battery designations can be confusing, but the "18500" means it is 18mm in diameter and 50mm long (the last "0" means it is cylindrical). CR123A cells are 16mm in dia and 34mm long, so you can see 3 x 123s are the same length as 2 x 18500s. Sizes vary slightly from one manufacturer to another.

Battery capacities: 18500 cells will fit in WE bodies, but they will not fit in Surefires. If you particularly want a Surefire, you will have to settle for the slimmer 17500s or have the body bored out, which will weaken it. 18500 Li-Ions are ~1500mAh, and 17500s are ~1100mAh, so there is quite a difference in capacity.

Battery types: Lithium primaries are 3 volt cells. Lithium-Ions are rechargeables and are 3.7 volts. These are nominal voltages (as are most bulb voltages). Under a load like a EO-9 LA, which will pull a hefty 2 amps, CR123A primaries will sag from 3v to about 2.5v, giving ~7.5v for 3 of them. Fully-charged 18500s are in fact 4.2v each, not 3.7v. These will sag too, giving an average voltage of ~3.7v over their discharge period until they need recharging. Lo and behold, 2 x 3.7v = 7.4v, so the voltage from 2 beefy 18500 Li-Ion rechargeables is the same, on average, as from 3 smaller CR123A primaries. And the "9v" bulb is designed to take a 9v surge, but to operate most of the time on about…. yes, 7.5v! Clever, huh?

Protection: Make sure you get protected cells. Li-Ion chemistry is potentially dangerous (Lithium primaries have to be treated with care too, but that's another story). If you charge a Li-Ion above 4.2v, unpleasant chemical reactions start to occur in the cell. Above about 4.4v these reactions start to get really nasty and the cell can start venting violently, with flames and toxic materials coming out of it. At the other end of the scale, if you let the cell discharge to below 3v, it will be damaged. Below 2.5v it will usually be irrecoverable. If you have a good cell and a bad one in series, the good one will try to pump power into the bad one and this can result in a overheating incident. The solution to all these potential horrors is the protected cell. It has inbuilt circuitry which prevents overcharging, over-discharging, and large current drains. The circuit stops the cell going above 4.2v or below 3.0v, or from having more than ~4 amps pulled from it.

WE make their own protected 18500s (which they confusingly call 150a size). AW's cells are also excellent, and he has a sales thread on CPF here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=140362
You will be able to read about other popular battery sizes and their specifications in that thread.

Good luck and good hunting!
 
DM51 seems to have covered all the important bases here....

one more thing...

I haven't made it yet but plan on using it with a 9.6V 2700mA/h NiCd battery pack.

the 9.6V pack will more than likely blow the EO-9. NICD comes fresh off the charger as high as 1.6V per cell in some cases, and NICD can deliver very high current without much voltage sag...

a 6 cell NIMH (7.2V) fresh off the charger would be more than likely safe for the EO-9. (fresh off the charger that pack would be about 8.7V, settling down to around 8.3V after a day or so....).. A 7 cell pack might work if you let it sit for a few days before use...

for the reasons DM51 already described... these lamps are not truely 9V lamps, they have very short lives at exactly 9V, 7.5V is closer to their design voltage.., a 9.6V NICD pack(8 cell) would be over 12V FRESH off a charger, POP!
 
Wow, thanks for the in depth replies everyone. I will remove two cells from the 9.6v pack and use it as a 6 cell. I am still pretty green when it comes to all this but am reading the CPF avidly and hopefully taking some of it in.

Thanks again.

Jon
 
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