D10 vs LF5XT one man's opinion. What's yours?

[yaesumofo]

Hi guys. I now have both of these lights and am able to make some direct comparisons.
On the whole the construction of the nitecore D10 has the edge over all. I am impressed with the use of 7075 aluminum high quality O-rings and very good knurling but not that impressed with the quality of the threads.
The liteflux on the other hand has better threads, worse knurling, and lousy O-rings.
The heart of the matter is the beam and I have to give the better beam to the LiteFlux. Not only because it is brighter but because they have used the deeper reflector and eliminated the ringy beam which so many cree based flashlights suffer from.
UI I am slowly becoming familial with the "UI" of the Liteflux. I can't say that I like it. there is WAY too much delay between a button press and the light coming ON.
IMHO there is just way too much going on and a steep learning curve. What I will end up doing is learning the UI, setting up the light in a way which works best for me and forgetting the UI programming method.
The D10 with it's almost KISS method of use is a better way to go for me. this is purely subjective and you may feel different than I.
The liteflux has a major factory defect. if the light is ON and it takes a hit to the rear of the light (the amount of force varies from light to light) will turn it off. There is a fix available but to be frank this is the kind of problem that shouldn't have made it into production flashlights. If a CPF'er had not found it it may have taken longer for liteflux to discover it and fix it. The pressure form US made it happen which is a good thing except for the fact that it shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. Maybe next time they will send a few lights to us to look at before they go into production.
I have another issue with the Liteflux. Actually I have always had this issue. the light is way over engineered. There are way too many parts. I am of the opinion that where nitecore went to McGizmo and discussed the use of a PD in their light Liteflux chose to use the PD element but did not discuss it with don. Choosing instead to "re-engineer" the design (for the worse as evidenced by the major defect) IMHO this is a clear case of flashlight plagiarism. Since the concept is NOT patented .... The reality is that designs and concepts have been modified and exchanged from the very beginning. I feel that Liteflux would have benefited greatly from bringing Don into the picture instead of just taking the design outright.

IN the end I feel that the D10 is a light which will be more reliable and robust in EDC use. The LF5XT requires work in order to set up. The D10 doesn't. I also like the 7075 as a material choice. If I had my way all single cell flashlights should be made from 7075.
I wish that the nitecore had the beam of the liteflux. There is no doubt that NiteCore needs work in this area.
It would be great to see the next generation D10 made with a deep reflector with more "focus" given to the quality of the beam.
OK there you have it the Yaesumofo point of view of these too lights.
Yaesumofo

 

[SilentK]

thanks for posting this. it has affected me wanting a liteflux a bit. can you say how much lower the liteflux goes than the D10? the lightflux still may still have a use.

 

[yaesumofo]

To be frank I have not been able to work out how to make the light go BELOW the 2% output level which is available in mode 3.
The 2% output level in mode 3 on the liteflux is quite a bit brighter than the D10 lowest level.
Generally I have found the D10's LOW to be about as low as any light I have, it really is very low. I have not measured it since this data is available elsewhere.

While I do appreciate the availability of a low level like that on the LF5XT, the ease of access to a minimum level as is available on the D10 is a better way to go FOR ME.
Yaesumofo

thanks for posting this. it has affected me wanting a liteflux a bit. can you say how much lower the liteflux goes than the D10? the light flux still may still have a use.

 

[cave dave]

... Liteflux chose to use the PD element but did not discuss it with don. Choosing instead to "re-engineer" the design (for the worse as evidenced by the major defect) IMHO this is a clear case of flashlight plagiarism. ...
Yaesumofo

The LF5XT does not use a PD design. The inner tube doesn't act as a switch or move as part of the workings. It is a second contact path and instead works like the spring in the HDS series lights. If there was any "evolution" involved than the design is a descendant of the HDS not the PD.

 

[clintb]

The liteflux has a major factory defect. if the light is ON and it takes a hit to the rear of the light (the amount of force varies from light to light) will turn it off. There is a fix available but to be frank this is the kind of problem that shouldn't have made it into production flashlights. If a CPF'er had not found it it may have taken longer for liteflux to discover it and fix it. The pressure form US made it happen which is a good thing except for the fact that it shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. Maybe next time they will send a few lights to us to look at before they go into production.

A "major" factory defect? How about the defective user that drops the light? Maybe he, or she, should be sent back to the factory for a defective hand. I'm sorry Yaesumofo, but you have consistently blown this glitch way out of proportion. If you ponder it a bit, I'm sure you'd find the majority of rear clicky lights would behave the same way when dropped onto their tail. At least LiteFlux has stepped up, admitted there is an undesirable glitch, and will be reprogramming the MCU for those who can't live with it.

How about the "major" factory defect of the EX10 fogging when it's supposedly IPX-8 rated? That's pretty darned bad, in my opinion.

I have another issue with the Liteflux. Actually I have always had this issue. the light is way over engineered. There are way too many parts. I am of the opinion that where nitecore went to McGizmo and discussed the use of a PD in their light Liteflux chose to use the PD element but did not discuss it with don. Choosing instead to "re-engineer" the design (for the worse as evidenced by the major defect) IMHO this is a clear case of flashlight plagiarism. Since the concept is NOT patented .... The reality is that designs and concepts have been modified and exchanged from the very beginning. I feel that Liteflux would have benefited greatly from bringing Don into the picture instead of just taking the design outright.

Proof, it's a word that I have yet to see you conjure up when accusing LiteFlux of this "plaigarism" (not even the correct usage of the word). Just because the design is somewhat similar does not mean it has been ripped off.

Piston Drive = mechanical and electrical.
LiteFlux method = purely electrical.

Number of parts != decreasing reliability. If that were the case, automobiles would be dead after coming off the dealer's lot. You've already beaten this dead horse; the LF5XT only has a few extra parts over the PD series. Really, stop it.

I'm not here to defend LiteFlux; I own both the PD's and two LF5XT's. I am here to call into question this irrational thought process.

 

[WadeF]

The Liteflux is a cool light, but my EX10 / D10 rank higher in my EDC line up. Liteflux has a ncie looking beam, but while you don't have the cree ring you end up with a tighter beam. The EX10 and D10 have a wider beam (more spill).

 

[cave dave]

I have both and so far I like both, they each have their pros and cons.

I don't recommend owning both, between these two and a HDS I can't keep all the clicks and presses straight.
A click push might get me high, strobe, or momentary high depending on which light I am using. The HDS requires slower clicks while the D10 requires faster clicks.
:hairpull:

 

[orcinus]

I wrote and reiterated ad nauseam everything i had to say on the matter in the LiteFlux thread. To summarize:

- PD => LF5XT's battery tube has nothing to do with piston drive... you still don't understand what it is and what it does, even though it's been explained to you quite a few times, and you're basing your comments solely on misconceptions
- design simplicity => is not a guarantee of quality nor reliability, just as complexity isn't a guarantee of the opposite
- number of parts => LF5XT has an insignificantly greater number of (vital) parts compared to the SmartPD series and about the same as other programmable, multi-mode lights

That said, i more or less agree completely with all your other comments. And would like to add one more thing - i found the machining of LF5XT an order of magnitude finer and nicer than of my D10, from threads, through anodizing, down to details like engraving (YMMV, though).

I like both lights, though, each for its own merits and specifics, and plan on EDC-ing both from now on (either simultaneously or on a rota).

 

[gadgetnerd]

Thanks for the opinions Y. I don't necessarily agree with them, but at least you own both of the lights concerned, which is more than I can say for some of the LF5XT bashers on CPF.

I think they're both fantastic lights in their different ways, and don't plan to stop using either of them.

 

[orcinus]

One more thing... Beam quality.

LF5XT has a definite advantage here and i actually find its beam more useful in everyday use than D10's seems to be. The reason for that being that, even though it's a narrower beam, its spill is much much brighter and transition to hotspot less pronounced (the beam profile is more uniform).

D10 has a sharper, throwier hotspot and a comparably weak spill, making things a bit eyejarring at short distances.

 

[clintb]

I wrote and reiterated ad nauseam everything i had to say on the matter in the LiteFlux thread. To summarize:

- PD => LF5XT's battery tube has nothing to do with piston drive... you still don't understand what it is and what it does, even though it's been explained to you quite a few times, and you're basing your comments solely on misconceptions
- design simplicity => is not a guarantee of quality nor reliability, just as complexity isn't a guarantee of the opposite
- number of parts => LF5XT has an insignificantly greater number of (vital) parts compared to the SmartPD series and about the same as other programmable, multi-mode lights

That said, i more or less agree completely with all your other comments. And would like to add one more thing - i found the machining of LF5XT an order of magnitude finer and nicer than of my D10, from threads, through anodizing, down to details like engraving (YMMV, though).

I like both lights, though, each for its own merits and specifics, and plan on EDC-ing both from now on (either simultaneously or on a rota).

All hail, master of the LiteFlux programming diagram. :bow:

Seriously though, I agree with you 100%, orcinus.

 

[yaesumofo]

I do not agree. There is certainly a piston. There is no doubt that the piston is used to send current to the circuit. There are differences in the mechanics of the system I agree. Take the Piston out of the LF5XT and it will not work. If that brass piston like tube is not a piston in the liteflux than how would you describe it?

I suspect we will have to agree to disagree. Both lights have pistons. This is a fact that can not be denied.
Yaesumofo

The LF5XT does not use a PD design. The inner tube doesn't act as a switch or move as part of the workings. It is a second contact path and instead works like the spring in the HDS series lights. If there was any "evolution" involved than the design is a descendant of the HDS not the PD.

 

[orcinus]

By its very definition, a piston moves!
How would i describe it? As a battery tube, which is what it really is

It doesn't move (unless you drop your LF5XT, that is ), it doesn't switch, it doesn't signal, it doesn't protrude from the body. All it does is contain the battery and connect its negative terminal to the head.

Following your logic, any "normal" flashlight case could be called a piston as well. It contains the battery, is tubular and it conducts current.


Anyway, to stop beating a dead horse, a slight digression. I wholeheartedly agree on you w/regards to the lowest setting. That's probably what i like about the D10 the most. Perfect for changing a memory card, swapping lens or checking the level on a tripod in the dark, without losing night sight!

 

[yaesumofo]

Dupe Sort of

 

[BabyDoc]

I would agree with those that say that the brass tube in the LiteFlux is not a piston. A piston, by definition, is a moving cylinder;it is mechanical. The LiteFlux tube is stationary and is strictly electrical.

If anything is similar it is the LiteFlux brass tube and the Novatac body tube spring which are both conductive and surround the battery.

Edit: sorry, I see this has been said before.

 

[yaesumofo]

Well if the light were so reliable then what to you call the factory defect?
It is way more than a glitch.
I will give you an example.
Lets say you are in the dark. really dark.
you might be walking or climbing or crawling. it might be a dark space under the ground hell it could be anywhere. the key is that it is DARK and you are using this light to illuminate your path. OK now lets say that something happens like you trip on a vine or a person who is behind you bumps into you or you step in a nail which you did not see and it penetrates your shoe, the point is that something happens to you in the dark that causes you to DROP the light, in the dark. and it lands on it's tail end, (I would like to think that you are reasonable enough to believe that this scenario is totally possible). OK So the light lands on it's tail and whoops it goes OUT in the dark and it is BLACK and you can't see especially since your eyes are not used to the dark. Lets say that the light takes a bounces and falls five foot to the left and down.
Now what?
It it were me I would be wishing that the light did not have the defect.
OWN a LOT of flashlights. The LF5XT is the only commercial grade flashlight that I own that has this problem. I say again this is not a minor glitch IMHO. Clearly it was serious enough for the company to research a fix rather quickly. The point is that the unit I have has the problem. and until it is fixed I would not even begin to consider this light as suitable for EDC duty.
This "issue" is not common to all clickies since most of the available clickies are not computer driven when they are in an ON position if the light falls and the battery looses momentary contact with the driver the light may flash or flicker but unless the switch itself is 'clicked" the light will come back on immediately allowing itself to be found. Unlike the LF5XT.

None of my fenix lights do this, none of my surefire's do this and none of my HDS's do it and neither do my novatac's do it.
Out of curiosity which lights of the VAST Majority of Clickies have this same glitch? Just wondering.


I EDC a Lunasol and that is not going to change any time soon.
I do not feel the need to Provide anything to you or anybody. Like the title of the thread says these are my opinions. It really doesn't matter weather or not you agree with them or weather or not I agree with yours.

We are talking about flashlights here, Both lights have their good points and bad points.
When it comes down to the way I use flashlights and the reliability I need in a flashlight, I prefer the D10 to the LF5XT. When it comes to materials, knurling, anodizing, and overall build quality I prefer the Nature. When it comes to Beam quality and quality of the threads I definitely prefer the LF5XT,.
Ultimately I would like to see a NITECORE which uses acme threads, and the deep reflector as used by LiteFlux, I am sure that some of you would ad the Liteflux UI to this combination. Not me, but that is just me.
Yaesumofo

A "major" factory defect? How about the defective user that drops the light? Maybe he, or she, should be sent back to the factory for a defective hand. I'm sorry Yaesumofo, but you have consistently blown this glitch way out of proportion. If you ponder it a bit, I'm sure you'd find the majority of rear clicky lights would behave the same way when dropped onto their tail. At least LiteFlux has stepped up, admitted there is an undesirable glitch, and will be reprogramming the MCU for those who can't live with it.

How about the "major" factory defect of the EX10 fogging when it's supposedly IPX-8 rated? That's pretty darned bad, in my opinion.


Proof, it's a word that I have yet to see you conjure up when accusing LiteFlux of this "plagiarism" (not even the correct usage of the word). Just because the design is somewhat similar does not mean it has been ripped off.

Piston Drive = mechanical and electrical.
LiteFlux method = purely electrical.

Number of parts != decreasing reliability. If that were the case, automobiles would be dead after coming off the dealer's lot. You've already beaten this dead horse; the LF5XT only has a few extra parts over the PD series. Really, stop it.

I'm not here to defend LiteFlux; I own both the Pd's and two LF5XT's. I am here to call into question this irrational thought process.

 

[orcinus]

Well if the light were so reliable then what to you call the factory defect?
It is way more than a glitch.

It is a glitch. Someone at LiteFlux forgot to write some code, that's all there is to it.

My D10 does the same thing if you hit it on the tail, except it comes back on right away (it just "blinks"). The difference here is, someone at NiteFlux knew better and made their light save the on/off state in flash and retrieve it after the MCU loses (and regains) power.

LiteFlux thought of doing that only after the "user intervention".

So, obviously, it's not a physical defect typical of LF5XT or it being "over-engineered" as you've stated, but a matter of rushed software development. That has been fixed. I'd call that a glitch, or a bug, don't know about you.

 

[Zenster]

One more thing... Beam quality.

LF5XT has a definite advantage here and i actually find its beam more useful in everyday use than D10's seems to be. The reason for that being that, even though it's a narrower beam, its spill is much much brighter and transition to hotspot less pronounced (the beam profile is more uniform).

D10 has a sharper, throwier hotspot and a comparably weak spill, making things a bit eyejarring at short distances.

You and yaesumofo keep crossing swords about there being a piston or not in the LF5XT, but even though there is a piston in the LF5XT, I agree with your take more because what I think is important is the concept of what the piston does. And what it does is to eliminate a physical, moving part "switch". The LF5XT does seem to have a switch in the tail while the D10 doesn't which depends solely upon the piston to activate the programming in the head.

But I have to disagree with your comments about the beams as quoted above which shows that personal perception plays a large part in evaluating the two lights.
To the point, I disagree 180 degrees with your take on the beams, and I find (for me) that it's the D10's beam that is more useful in everyday use than the very noticeably narrower beam of the LF5XT.
What I do love about my LF5XT, though, is that it's one of the early R2's that was hand-picked by Khoo for a warm white color, and it is beautiful.

Overall, however, the smaller size, wonderfully simplistic UI, broader beam, and lower low of the D10 are the reasons that I find that I grab the D10 more often than the LF5XT.

 

[orcinus]

To the point, I disagree 180 degrees with your take on the beams, and I find (for me) that it's the D10's beam that is more useful in everyday use than the very noticeably narrower beam of the LF5XT.

Different strokes et cetera

Some people just hate "tunnel vision" so much that beam angle/width takes priority over everything else. I don't particularly mind it (using just rods for the peripheral vision is fine by me ) and prefer having a non-distracting, uniform beam pattern at the center of my FoV, as tight as that beam is (up to a point, of course).

It's a purely subjective thing. I've found walking around at night with an LF5XT makes my eyes feel a bit more comfortable than walking around with a D10. Maybe i've just gotten used to it and will change my opinion after using it for a while. :shrug:

 

[LED-holic]

While the LF5XT is a great light, for me personally it was hard for me to adapt to it. I could quickly and easily use the D10, but I could never get the hang of using the LF5XT.

Maybe future versions of LF5XT will be easier for me to use, making this comparison much harder. But right now I clearly prefer my D10 to the LF5XT.

Bottom line it's great that there are a couple lights out that give people choices. The more lights out the more choices people have. Hopefully we can really savor our fortune at having a variety of lights we can buy and enjoy.