DB, voltage regulation, and a LIII question.

[Owen]

Help me out here.
I'd like to try putting an Ecan and a LIII or possibly a 5w LS in a standard E head, with maybe a Fraen LP if it'll fit, and run it off 3 123s (w/an extension) with a DB1000.
I have yet to buy the LED, or DB.

I understand that the DB1000 is going to limit current to 1A, which is what I want for a LIII, but...

copy/paste from the DB700 at the Shoppe:
Will operate in DD mode when Vin is less than Vout (Vf).

Am I understanding this correctly---it "senses" the Vf of the emitter, and won't let that V be exceeded?
I need some peace of mind before I start hooking stuff up, and hopefully not frying expensive LEDs.

Another semi-related question:
TVOK LIII at the Shoppe. 67.2-87.4 lumens, 3.51-3.75Vf
If the converter board is taking care of the Vf (since I'm going to run off 9v), should I be looking for a higher lumen rating like a V, W, or X? If so, where, and how much do they cost?
I'm about to get a Pila charger and a couple of 168S batteries. I could get a pair of 150S for 9V in a 3 cell configuration, so runtime wouldn't be a huge concern, especially since use will be intermittent (hey, it's just something to play with), so I might as well go for as much output as possible.

I'd appreciate any answers, or suggestions. My only mod so far is replacing the LS in a SL 3AA Task Light, and removing the resistor so it's DD. This is still new to me. I don't mind spending some money, but don't want to just waste it by screwing up, or "making" something that isn't practical, or that I could buy the equivalent of for half the price.
Thanks.

 

[tylerdurden]

The converter doesn't exactly "sense" the Vf of the emitter. The Vf is just an estimate of what voltage is required for the emitter to draw the specified current from the batteries. With the Lux-III, that spec current is either 700 or 1000ma, not sure which. In any case, the downboy circuit will drop the input voltage down as far as it needs to until the current drawn by the emitter is 700ma (or whatever the downboy is rated at). If the output voltage of the batteries falls below this, the downboy won't need to lower it any further, and since it isn't capable of boosting the voltage, it will go into (nearly) direct drive mode. I say nearly because the circuit is still consuming a little bit of power, though it isn't very much at all.

Second question, I haven't seen any Lux-III emitters with a higher flux bin than "T" so far.

 

[Chop]

Owen,
I would seriously rethink putting all of that into an E head. Running an amp in that head will get you alot of heat as it is and will be a short run light. If you punch the head out to accomodate an optic, you'll be getting rid of almost all of the mass of the head on a head that really has no surface area to dissiapate heat. If you run a 3W or 5W at 1A in that setup, you'll be able to cook on it. It would be a very short run light. You'd be much better off putting all of that hardware into a McLux PR or a modded KL4. Even a KL1 will do. The KL1 has a buck/boost circuit in it and can be biased up to 1A and allow you to run it on 1X123 up to 3X123. The KL1 also accomodates optics.

Personally, I wouldn't put a 5W in anything mentioned above except the McLux PR.

 

[Owen]

Thanks guys. That's just what I needed, an explanation and a reality check.
I wasn't sure if heat was going to be a big deal, thinking the Ecan transferred heat to the whole head and body. Maybe I should put this in a 2C Mag instead (original plan, anyway). Hmmm.
I'm definitely not screwing around with my KL4, but the KL1...maybe.
What/where is a McLux PR?

 

[Reima]

Chop,
How do you change the bias of the KL1 to 700mA?
RC

 

[AilSnail]

Mclux pr is an e-series/mclux head that accomodates a pelican M6 modified reflector. It has an internal bulkhead to spread heat out from the led and fins to convect the heat to the surrounding air. The reflector tosses very well, much more than the lumiled NX05 optic, though it is bigger. With a 5w it is a very fine general purpose work light. I use it with a badboy 750 on 2x123's. Some people say an 1w or 3w can toss even further with the pr, but that is not my impression after some limited testing with a 3w at upwards of 1.4A. however my 5w is an exceptional one so that might be a different story. The Mclux parts and converter boards etc can be bought at www.theledguy.com in the shoppe section whenever they are in stock.

 

[kj]

I got about 1300 lux at 1m from McLux PR/BB750/Luxeon V X3T and 3500 lux from McLux PR/DB1000/Luxeon III TWAK. Based on this result, I would say Luxeon III throws further than V. Of course, the lux reading should have a certain amount of error and these are results from my very limited testing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[AilSnail]

wow. I need to retest /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif mine is a bb750/X3T and the other were DD 2x123 SVOL.

I still can't determine which has a better throw. I need to rig them side by side to be sure.

I have long wondered how accurate a lux reading reflects throw. Could you make a reading of those two lights at 2 or 3 meters too?

 

[kj]

Owen,

Sorry for OT. Anyway, if you want III + DB1000, I think McLux PR is the way to go.


AilSnail,

I've currently lent my lux meter to my friend so I cannot do it right now, but will do in near future.

Anyway, if I understand correctly, there are two theories relating to this.

- The lux reading is inversely proportional to the distance.
- To see the brightness difference clearly, the lux needs to be doubled.

If these are correct, to state "this light throws double" without the lux meter, we need 8 times as much. Let me know how you think.

BTW, as I wrote in another thread, my experimental DD 2x123 TV1L was dim. I got only 2500 lux or so. I don't know if this happens on your mod, though.

 

[Owen]

Thanks for the details on the McLux. Looks great. I didn't realize those were for use with the E series SFs, and never even bothered to look at them.
Mmmm. More stuff to buy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif

 

[kj]

Yeah, it works great and looks really great.

 

[Owen]

Thanks again, guys. This McLux stuff has me kind of excited. My whole reason for wanting to do mods is to either build something I can't get (or better to my mind than anything I can get), or make a stock light better. The more I look at these heads, and the different converter boards, the more possibilities become apparent, even for someone whose knowlege about this stuff is limited to basics-like me for instance.
I'd like to get two heads, with one getting a DB1000, and LIII, and the other a 400mA Wizard, 1w, and McFlood or NX05, but will probably just go for one with a LIII. After I get done Christmas shopping, anyway. A 1w/NX05/Wizard seems like it would be redundant, since I have a KL1, but for some reason I keep picturing that 3x123 power pack with a E2C and SRTH on it, too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
This is going to be fun.

 

[Owen]

btw, I was looking at that 400mA Wizard listed on the Shoppe, and couldn't help but wonder...
Why not a 1000mA Wizard?

 

[AilSnail]

Owen, one thing to note about the wizard, along with all other buck/boost converters I have heard of, is that they are quite a bit less efficient than those converters that can only buck or boost. I don't know how much current it can provide, though.

Kj, My DD SVOL don't seem very bright either. Certainly not worth the extra current that goes through it compared to a 5w with BB750.

The thing about lux at different distances relates to some vague ideas I have about reflector and source size.
If there was a 1sqm reflector, and a tiny lux sensor at one meter, that would read rather little.
The smaller, say pr reflector, might get most of it emitted light within the sensor's area, and get a high lux reading.

But, after fifty meters, the mclux would have spread its light much more than the 1sqm reflector, which would still have a beam of approximately 1sqm. So now the bigger reflector would have a bigger percentage of its light within the sensor area and thus give a higher lux reading.

Often in beamshots from the side there is an almost parallell part of the beam, and then there is a part that [it]crosses[it] the center beam, i.e. goes from the left side of the reflector rim to the right.

Somewhere both the crossing beam and the straight beam will meet, and there the lux reading (corrected for distance) would be higher than at other distances.

It looks like the lux sensors come in many different sizes, this might effect things too.

That is why I was curious about testing two different lights at different distances, to see if the relative lux at one meter correlated with the readings at two meters.

Hopefully someone can throw in some theory and data about this. Maybe it is not even worthwhile to consider when comparing similar type lights.

 

[Owen]

Thank you. I'm pretty much locked in on LIII/DB1000, now, but am still curious. I guess less efficiency would equal more heat, along with a shorter run. Sounds like it kind of defeats the purpose of trying to get more useable runtime. In addition, I wonder if the "discharge protection circuit" in a Pila rechargeable would have a negative effect in conjunction with a boost circuit, but don't know how it works, or how low it allows the battery's voltage to get before kicking in.
Interesting, frustrating, confusing, and so much fun to mess around with.
I love it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif

 

[AilSnail]

If you are going to use one 123 or two AA's (in a 3x123 body for instance) you need a badboy (667 or 750ma?) or a madmax + (600-800ma?). Theese boost the voltage up to the led.

If you want to use 2 or more 123's, or one or more li-ions, you need a downboy, which is a buck converter, lowering the voltage from the battery to the led.

If you want all of the above options in the same head, you need to use the wizard, at the cost of efficiency (runtime) and maybe also brightness, depending on how many milliamps it can be set to provide.

I noticed you mentioned a turbohead too. You might want to consider boring the battery tube to 18-18.5 mm (?), then you can use pila 150a and 168a, with two of either of those (or two 168s) you apparently can run the n62 turbohead lamp.

 

[Owen]

It's going to use 3x123 or 2 Pila 150S, hence the DB1000. I think it will get a dedicated body, too (McLux 3x123 Power Pack).
The turbo is a SRTH, but I went ahead and bought a Z3 to put it on. I read about boring the tube out to handle the 150A, but already have a pair of 150S, and am trying them out right now. I don't think I'm going to use the light enough to know the difference-L4 gets the majority of my use. It, and my Stinger or UltraStinger are the tools. The rest are just toys, I suppose /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Thanks for the ideas and suggestions.

 

[Chop]

Owen,
If you're planning on running a 3W with a Downboy on a single Pila, it will run in Direct Drive as Vin will likely be less than Vf from the get go. I MAY regulate for a short while, but not for long. The 2X150S is the way to go for a downboy.

 

[AilSnail]

whoops, you might be right on that, chop. i don't know the discharge voltage curves on the li-ions and the voltage drop of the db's...

 

[Owen]

[ QUOTE ]
Owen said:
It's going to use 3x123 or 2 Pila 150S, hence the DB1000. I think it will get a dedicated body, too (McLux 3x123 Power Pack).

[/ QUOTE ]
Never said anything about a single Pila /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif