Defective? Nitecore EX10 R2 Edition? Starting to look like battery problem instead.

[Marduke]

Protection circuits don't work so well at low currents.

Also, UF can print whatever they want on the box, that doesn't mean it is actually true.

 

[Grumpy]

Also I thought that since the cells were protected cells that I could not have over discharged them as this is the purpose of having protected cells in the fist place.

I don't think that everybody that has a flashlight is going to take a stopwatch with them and try and use it to determine how long they have run their light for. This is why I purchase only protected batteries in the first place. I use a light often and do not just shine it on a wall every now and then and immediately put the battery back on charge.

Also if a light does not run as long as it is advertised to do then people will not know when to stop using their light short of the battery protection kicking in.

I think that I will try to purchase only lights that have protection built in to them also from now on.

If a light has protection built in will it still hurt the batteries if you run the light till it shuts itself down?


I have now learned that I should not rely on the protection circuit of the battery itself as if it fails I could get a vent with flames etc. That is why I will start buying lights with protection built in to them also.

 

[Grumpy]

Protection circuits don't work so well at low currents.

Also, UF can print whatever they want on the box, that doesn't mean it is actually true.

Yes I definitely agree but I did not know and I am sure that others would also think that it was a good charger that would shut off when it is supposed to.

 

[Grumpy]

AFAIK my charger has never charged above 4.2 however I will keep a closer watch on it until I get a Pila chager.

 

[Grumpy]

I just checked the current draw again on my EX10 with a 18500 battery out of my DragonHeart. This battery has had very little use and was charged to 4.2 volts. I placed the head of the EX10 in a glass bowl with cool water and the starting current draw was 1050ma.

Is this more than it should be?

I only ran it for less than two minutes it stayed pretty close to this reading the whole time.

 

[dilbert]

Re: Defective Nitecore EX10 R2 Edition

I had three D10's that were acting the same way. Very short runtime and they would completely drain the batteries sitting un-used for 3-4 days. I sent them back to 4Sevens, and they are being replaced (when they get them in stock). There is a known problem with the EX10's & D10's. It's a faulty part used in manufacturing. The announcement is on 4Ssevens home page. Appearantly, quite a few of these got out before the problem was found...

Like JHanko said, if you bought it recently I'd contact the seller to make sure they aren't affected by this announcement:

"All D10/EX10 Q5&R2 are on hold until we check them due to a faulty part used in manufacturing. We are checking each one, and until they are all checked, all orders will be on hold "

 

[Marduke]

The simpliest solution is to simply be smarter than the light. Recharge BEFORE the protection circuit kicks in. This is better for the cells.

Also try a charger that costs more than $12...

 

[Grumpy]

I just checked the current draw of my DragonHeart and it was approx. 850ma.

I am thinking that the EX10 is drawing more than it should?

 

[Marduke]

It's difficult to know without a cell of known condition, which you don't have.

 

[Dan FO]

Buy a primary CR123 and see how that works.

 

[Grumpy]

It's difficult to know without a cell of known condition, which you don't have.

Very true.

I will be ordering a better charger soon. Probably the Pila.

I will also be ordering some more batteries.

I also will buy some primaries (surefire) to try.

If the light draws 1050ma with the new cells charged on a new (better quality charger) is this more than it should be?

I really don't know if that is too high of a reading or not but think that it is. That is why I am asking.

Thanks again for putting up with me and answering my questions.

 

[Marduke]

No, it's not horribly high.

 

[Grumpy]

No, it's not horribly high.

Thanks again for answering my question.
I appreciate you taking time to help.

 

[KiwiMark]

I just checked the current draw again on my EX10 with a 18500 battery out of my DragonHeart. This battery has had very little use and was charged to 4.2 volts. I placed the head of the EX10 in a glass bowl with cool water and the starting current draw was 1050ma.

Is this more than it should be?

It's probably more than it would be with 2 x 3V or 2 x 4.2V because you only had 1 x 4.2V. Generally you will get around (not exactly, depends on the efficiency of the buck driver) the same wattage with each. 1.05A x 4.2V = 4.41W so therefore 2 x 4.2 cells could have as little as 0.53A drain (I would expect more like 0.6 to 0.7A because the buck driver wont be anything like 100% efficient). 0.7A would not be overly high IMO.

 

[Vikas Sontakke]

I be to differ. A best quality RCR123 will have no more than 650mAh. At 1100mA, you will be lucky to get 30 minutes out of it. If the manufacturer of the light claims that it can run for 80 minutes on single RCR123, he has defied laws of physics.

If the light has current controlled circuit, it will last even less because as the voltage of the cell drops, battery current has to go up to maintain constant current at the LED.

I believe you have ascertained that the problem is with the light and NOT with your three cells.

- Vikas

 

[Marduke]

I be to differ. A best quality RCR123 will have no more than 650mAh. At 1100mA, you will be lucky to get 30 minutes out of it. If the manufacturer of the light claims that it can run for 80 minutes on single RCR123, he has defied laws of physics.

If the light has current controlled circuit, it will last even less because as the voltage of the cell drops, battery current has to go up to maintain constant current at the LED.

I believe you have ascertained that the problem is with the light and NOT with your three cells.

- Vikas

You seem to not fully understand how the EX10 works. The EX10 is boost only voltage regulated, so for a short time the light is essentially in direct drive and draws much more power than specified. The higher the voltage above the Vf, the higher the current draw. Not until the cell voltage drops below the Vf does the input power go through an inflection and it again increases with decreased voltage.

Depending on the particular Vf of the emitter in each light, 1050mA is perfectly acceptable on fully charged 16340's.

 

[wapkil]

Grumpy, if I were you I'd wait for your new Quark 123 before drawing final conclusions. I could have missed some information in this thread but it's still not clear for me what is the exact situation.

Marduke wrote that the EX10 uses boost only circuit. If I understand correctly, it means that the light behavior depends on the LED Vf, over which Nitecore has completely no control, and on the battery voltage under the load which obviously is also different for different batteries.

If you happen to have a light with a low Vf LED and use a good battery with a low voltage sag under load, I think the light can easily run 15 minutes in direct drive. During that time, the light would run bright and, if not cooled, hot. I mean really hot - I tested an AA direct driven light some time ago and without cooling in the room temperature the light body after 15 minutes reached 66 degrees Celsius. In that temperature you couldn't hold it even for a few seconds. After these 15 minutes there will be only half of the initial battery capacity available for the regulated runtime.

You may also have a light with a higher Vf or a battery with a faster voltage drop which would make your light run only a few minutes in direct drive before going into the regulation. This one would run longer. You may also have something in between.

I'd say that this design, if I understand it correctly, is rather surprising for a light that is supposedly designed for Li-Ion rechargeables.

It is also possible that you abused your batteries. The WF-139 isn't a good charger but since you already have it, you may want to check which version it is. Here is the post describing how to determine it. The third revision will trickle charge the batteries and can overcharge them if left inside. If you have one of the remaining two, you'd have to search on CPF which one does what. I think the second one doesn't overcharge, I'm not sure about the first one. I don't know if you were systematically overcharging your batteries but if you are sure that they were 4.20V immediately out of the charger, then it seems unlikely to me.

When you have the Quark you should be able to compare runtimes with your batteries and other people results. Note that such runtimes for RCR123s weren't posted yet (I think) and the runtimes in the specification are for CR123s not RCR123s.

You could continue testing your EX10 by measuring both the current and the voltage, checking when it goes into the regulation, etc. but I think that comparing to the Quark should be easier.

 

[wapkil]

Grumpy, if I were you I'd wait for your new Quark 123 before drawing final conclusions. I could have missed some information in this thread but it's still not clear for me what is the exact situation.

I just noticed that I indeed missed the post where you wrote that you measured 850mA initially which rose to 1100mA after 3 or 4 minutes. In the direct drive the current will lower, not raise, with lowering voltage. In the regulation the light shouldn't draw 1.1A from a Li-Ion if it puts out only 130 lumens (and wants to do it for 80 minutes). It's another confusing information and thus, I think, another good reason to wait for the Quark.

 

[Marduke]

I just noticed that I indeed missed the post where you wrote that you measured 850mA initially which rose to 1100mA after 3 or 4 minutes. In the direct drive the current will lower, not raise, with lowering voltage. In the regulation the light shouldn't draw 1.1A from a Li-Ion if it puts out only 130 lumens (and wants to do it for 80 minutes). It's another confusing information and thus, I think, another good reason to wait for the Quark.

Check the thread linked above...

 

[wapkil]

Check the thread linked above...

You mean the post hidden under the dot in your post?

It shows 1.1A for 2.2V-2.3V - well below cutoff voltage for protected cells and impossible to reach for unprotected if the light works for some time afterwards :shrug: