dereelight help

[hubbytuby]

Im new to all this and im haveing trouble reading what the lumens are on the dereelight. All they say is the % and i dont get it. Could someone please explan this. How would you compare dereelights with other companies like sureefire and fenix. Because im looking for a light like the T1, but there are somany choices out there and im just doing alot of research. Thanks Again.

 

[WadeF]

Pretty much any of the lights driving a Cree Q5 at around 1A (Dereelight claims 1.2A) you will be getting basiacally the same amount of lumens. A Dereelight DBS, CL1H, Fenix T1, with Q5's are pretty much comparable in output. The differences are the type of beams they can produce, the design of the flashlight, the way they function, etc.

Surefire has yet to push their LED's as hard as Dereelight and Fenix, so their LED's are more in the 65-100 lumen range, where Dereelight and Fenix are more in the 180-200 lumen range. The difference is night and day when you fire up a Surefire L1 rated at 65 lumens, and a Dereelight CL1H with a Q5 and an estimated ~200 lumens.

Dereelight's % figures are the % of max output, 100% being full output (say 200 lumens), and 50% would be 100 lumens, 5% 10 lumens, etc.

The Dereelight CL1H V3 with a Q5 and textured reflector will be about the same as the Fenix T1 with a textured reflector. If you want more throw you can easily install a smooth reflector into the Dereelight CL1H. If you can open your Fenix T1 you maybe able to swap reflectors as well, if they sell them seperately. I know Fenix T1's can come with either textured or smooth,but I'm not sure how easily they can be changed.

The Dereelight DBS is designed for throw, so it is in a different class, and isn't as useful for everyday tasks, unless spotting things at 300+ feet is all you ever want to do with your flashlight.

Dereelight's lights are very modular, and if a new emitter comes out, or a new pill (light engine / circuit), it's cheap and easy to upgrade your light. Generally $25-35 for the new pill.

Update: Took some quick beam shots with my CL1H with a R2 DI pil and textured reflector, and a shot with my new Surefire L1 Cree. Both shots taken at ISO 100, f2.8, 1 sec., daylight WB:

Surefire L1 Cree on high, rated at 65 lumens by Surefire:


Dereelight CL1H DI R2 WH MAX textured reflector, 200 lumens? You be the judge:



Of course this isn't a fair contest, but this is more just to compare how Surefire's 65 lumens compare with a Dereelight CL1H. The SF L1 is using a Surefire CR123A so it performs to Surefire's specifications, the Dereelight is also running on a single cell, but a AW 18650.

Another thing to keep in mind with brands like Dereelight they are upfront with the tint bin used. With Fenix and Surefire it's usually luck of the draw as they don't tell us what tint bin they use, so your SF or Fenix LED light may have a green tint, blue, purple, or be nice and white.

 

[Patsplace]

Great Post!!!

Pretty much any of the lights driving a Cree Q5 at around 1A (Dereelight claims 1.2A) you will be getting basiacally the same amount of lumens. A Dereelight DBS, CL1H, Fenix T1, with Q5's are pretty much comparable in output. The differences are the type of beams they can produce, the design of the flashlight, the way they function, etc.

Surefire has yet to push their LED's as hard as Dereelight and Fenix, so their LED's are more in the 65-100 lumen range, where Dereelight and Fenix are more in the 180-200 lumen range. The difference is night and day when you fire up a Surefire L1 rated at 65 lumens, and a Dereelight CL1H with a Q5 and an estimated ~200 lumens.

Dereelight's % figured are the % of max output, 100% being full output (say 200 lumens), and 50% would be 100 lumens, 5% 10 lumens, etc.

The Dereelight CL1H V3 with a Q5 and textured reflector will be about the same as the Fenix T1 with a textured reflector. If you want more throw you can easily install a smooth reflector into the Dereelight CL1H. If you can open your Fenix T1 you maybe able to swap reflectors as well, if they sell them seperately. I know Fenix T1's can come with either textured or smooth,but I'm not sure how easily they can be changed.

The Dereelight DBS is designed for throw, so it is in a different class, and isn't as useful for everyday tasks, unless spotting things at 300+ feet is all you ever want to do with your flashlight.

Dereelight's lights are very modular, and if a new emitter comes out, or a new pill (light engine / circuit), it's cheap and easy to upgrade your light. Generally $25-35 for the new pill.

Update: Took some quick beam shots with my CL1H with a R2 DI pil and textured reflector, and a shot with my new Surefire L1 Cree. Both shots taken at ISO 100, f2.8, 1 sec., daylight WB:

Surefire L1 Cree on high, rated at 65 lumens by Surefire:


Dereelight CL1H DI R2 WH MAX textured reflector, 200 lumens? You be the judge:



Of course this isn't a fair contest, but this is more just to compare how Surefire's 65 lumens compare with a Dereelight CL1H. The SF L1 is using a Surefire CR123A so it performs to Surefire's specifications, the Dereelight is also running on a single cell, but a AW 18650.

Another thing to keep in mind with brands like Dereelight they are upfront with the tint bin used. With Fenix and Surefire it's usually luck of the draw as they don't tell us what tint bin they use, so your SF or Fenix LED light may have a green tint, blue, purple, or be nice and white.

 

[Patsplace]

Howdy Wade,
I was doing the usual Flashaholic stuff and reading posts when I reread the SF L1 and Dereelight Cl1H post and I wondered, what would the results have been if the Dereelight had of had the Smooth reflector in place instead of the OP reflector?

Would the power difference between the two lights have been extremely different? The test (sort of) that you did showed major power in the spill on the Dereelight but not enormous throw. I wonder what the same picture would have been with apples to apples, as it were.

Everyone says that the Dereelight has great throw with the smooth reflector and the L1 comes with a smooth reflector so we had one set up to throw (L1) and the other set up to diffuse. I wonder what they would have been like with both set up to throw.

Regards,
Pat

 

[adamlau]

Steve L has mentioned that a Dereelight assembly at 1A is outputting 200-225 lumens. A number of Dereelight assemblies are drawing 1.2A, which can be extrapolated as 240-270 lumens.

 

[CandleFranky]

The difference is night and day when you fire up a Surefire L1 rated at 65 lumens, and a Dereelight CL1H with a Q5 and an estimated ~200 lumens. [..]

Another thing to keep in mind with brands like Dereelight they are upfront with the tint bin used. With Fenix and Surefire it's usually luck of the draw as they don't tell us what tint bin they use, so your SF or Fenix LED light may have a green tint, blue, purple, or be nice and white.

a) If Surefires are mostly rated with low lumens, why is there such an almost religious hype around this high priced brand? :thinking:

b) I am taking from your posting, that Dereelight is only using bins with high quality and neutral tint (WC = white). While expensive brands like Fenix and Surefire are also using bins with other (cheaper) tints, which depends on availability? :naughty:

 

[Patsplace]

I can't comment on SF from the point of being an owner but I can certainly relate to an almost religious support for the product if it had saved my life or the lives of those around me. Just looking at what they offer in their catalogue put me in awe of their product line and the more I look the more I want. (Pardon the drool)

 

[WadeF]

a) If Surefires are mostly rated with low lumens, why is there such an almost religious hype around this high priced brand? :thinking:

b) I am taking from your posting, that Dereelight is only using bins with high quality and neutral tint (WC = white). While expensive brands like Fenix and Surefire are also using bins with other (cheaper) tints, which depends on availability? :naughty:

A) Not all Surefires are low lumens, and 65 lumens isn't really low at all. Years ago 65 lumens was a lot of light, enough for tactical use. More isn't always better, depends on how you want to use the light, etc. Surefire lights also have amazing build quality, design, reliability, etc. If your life is on the line, would you rather have a light that is really bright, or bright enough, but is tested and proven to work when needed?

B) Companies like Dereelight, and others, specify exactly what LED they are using, down to the tint bin. Dereelight has offered Cree Q5 WF's, Q5 WC's, and R2 WH's recently. If you are familiar with the Cree tint bins, you know what to expect. EdgeTac uses Cree Q5 WC's in their Nitecore and Spear, Tiablo has offered A9's and A8's with Q5 WC's. I haven't seen a Q5 WC that wasn't what I expected it to be, cool white.

With Fenix they at least state what emitter is being used, Cree Q5, Rebel 100, Rebel 80, Cree Q4, Q2, P4, etc. They just don't tell us what tint bin is being used, most likely because they wouldn't be able to purchase enough of a single bin, say Q5 WC, to cover all the lights they make. So rather than having the Fenix P3D Q5 WC, Fenix P3D Q5 WG, Fenix P3D Q5 WF, etc, and people only want the Fenix P3D Q5 WC, leaving dealers sitting on less popular bins, they just don't tell us what tint bin is being used, so it is a bit of a lottery, and if someone is really unhappy the dealer will usually make good and exchange it.

Surefire doesn't talk much about what emitter is being used, but most have figured it out, but we don't know if they are say Cree P4's, Cree Q2's, Cree Q5's, etc. I don't know if SF tries to keep them all Q5's, or if they sell the same light, some with Q4's, some with Q5's, some with Q2's? On top of that we don't know what tint bin is being used, so some get SF's with a nice white beam, other's get green, not sure if anyone is getting purple tints?

We don't know what tint bins SF finds acceptable, maybe they only use WC's, and WG's, as the WG's can be a bit on the greenish side, so can WF. See the Cree tint bin color chart here:

http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=binningcreexreyz4.jpg

It would be nice if SF offered premium versions where they state "Cree Q5 WC" etc, but it's probably too much trouble for the small % of their customers that are picky enough to want a certain tint.

Dereelight isn't always using the most popular tint bins, WF's, WH's, for example, but they are upfront about what they are. I personally wanted to try WH tint, since it's warmer, and I have been thrilled with the WH tint bin from what I've seen.

 

[Patsplace]

"Dereelight isn't always using the most popular tint bins, WF's, WH's, for example, but they are upfront about what they are. I personally wanted to try WH tint, since it's warmer, and I have been thrilled with the WH tint bin from what I've seen."

Hi Wade,
You mention that you're thrilled with the WH tint. What does it do? Am I just hoping that it produces a more incan type of light or is that the way it seems?

Any chance that you could take the same photo of the SF L1 / Dereelight with the smooth reflector in the Dereelight? Looking at the spill, I'm really wondering what kind of throw that amount of power would produce with the smooth in place.

 

[CandleFranky]

If your life is on the line, would you rather have a light that is really bright, or bright enough, but is tested and proven to work when needed?

WadeF, thank you for your answer. Lots of interesting informations. :thumbsup:

:duh2::shakehead Okay, you have convinced me, give me the most proven SF, green or red or blue tint - all without meaning, but please PROVEN. :thumbsup:

B) Companies like Dereelight, and others, specify exactly what LED they are using, down to the tint bin. [..] (Fenix) just don't tell us what tint bin is being used, most likely because they wouldn't be able to purchase enough of a single bin, say Q5 WC, to cover all the lights they make.

I have two Fenix Q5 heads for P2D/L1D/L2D which produces a perfectly white light. This is, what I would expect from an expensive brand flashlight. Good to know that this time I was lucky. I would not (NEVER) accept a green oder purple tint, unless it's from Dealextreme, where EVERYTHING is possible.

But a little bit more yellow (WH) wouldn't be a problem, I think.

 

[WadeF]

Any chance that you could take the same photo of the SF L1 / Dereelight with the smooth reflector in the Dereelight? Looking at the spill, I'm really wondering what kind of throw that amount of power would produce with the smooth in place.

I'll try and snap a picture tonight, if the winds calm down. Right now me, the DBS, SF L1, and my camera, would get blow away. Well, at least my camera could tip over.

The R2 WH is warmer, not as warm as an incan, but warmer than what I'm used to with LED's, such as Cree WC, WG, WF tint bins.

I have two Fenix Q5 heads for P2D/L1D/L2D which produces a perfectly white light.

I'm happy with the quality of light from my Fenix's. Compared to the WH tint it makes some of them look kinda blueish tint, or purplish tint, but when I use any of the lights on their own they look white.

So either some people are actually getting some really off tints that are really green or purple looking, or they are comparing them along side another light and make a big stink about what they see.

I'm sure Fenix does their best to keep things as white as possible, but when you compare multiple lights side by side you will always notice differences in the tints.

 

[Patsplace]

It would be great to include the DBS to the original CL1H and L1 mix.

Dropping your smooth reflector in the CL1H would give a very relative perspective to the difference between the various lights and all of them having smooth reflectors would be a true "apples to apples" visual. (Plus, I get to see an easy to relate to, DBS/CL1H W/smooth reflector demo.)

Do not get blown away or have the tripod tip over and wreck your camera, I don't know you well enough to take the blame. I can see it now. That @#%%$&@ Pat, this was his @$#@& idea. lol

Looking forward to it when ever it happens.

Regards,
Pat

 

[WadeF]

Do not get blown away or have the tripod tip over and wreck your camera, I don't know you well enough to take the blame. I can see it now. That @#%%$&@ Pat, this was his @$#@& idea. lol

Haha, if I go out I'll make sure to have the tripod real stable, and I need to replace my little digital camera anyway. Seems to be getting dust in the lens and it's showing up in some of my shots with a white background. I need to take the plunge and get a Digital SLR. Did I mention it's supposed to go down to 11F tonight? Although that's probably warm for some CPF'ers up North, but that's cold for my neck of the woods.

 

[orbital]

Haha, if I go out I'll make sure to have the tripod real stable, and I need to replace my little digital camera anyway. Seems to be getting dust in the lens and it's showing up in some of my shots with a white background. I need to take the plunge and get a Digital SLR. Did I mention it's supposed to go down to 11F tonight? Although that's probably warm for some CPF'ers up North, but that's cold for my neck of the woods.

+

Hey Wade, the wind chill in my neck of the woods was nearly -40F first light this morning.

Even I would say thats COLD!!..

 

[Patsplace]

40 below with wind chill, haven't experienced that since I lived in the Yukon. Got to experience 67 below zero in a little place called Liard Bridge, near Watson Lake. Was one degree from being the coldest place on the planet that night.

Turned my flashlight on that night and the pencil beam from the 3C Mag Lite shot out about 80', almost reached the trees, wavered in the air and then the whole beam cracked off at the lens and fell on the snow, with a light and brittle sound, glowed for a while and then went out. Next day when it warmed up there was a bright spot on the snow. Flashlight was never the same after that.

That was the night that I made the decision to never drink moonshine again.

 

[Patsplace]

Wade,
On a more serious note, I was just putting together a barge condition and detail survey and I noticed at the time I was doing it that it was like there was a dusty interior. Turned out it was the flash, bouncing off my breath in the air. Made a point of avoiding the exhale in the direction that I was taking the picture.

I'd seen it before in quite a few pictures but hadn't figured it out until late Dec. when I did this survey.

 

[WadeF]

Wade,
On a more serious note, I was just putting together a barge condition and detail survey and I noticed at the time I was doing it that it was like there was a dusty interior. Turned out it was the flash, bouncing off my breath in the air. Made a point of avoiding the exhale in the direction that I was taking the picture.

I'd seen it before in quite a few pictures but hadn't figured it out until late Dec. when I did this survey.

You know, some people would look at your foggy breath pictures and think the fog is a ghost! I gotta laugh at these "ghost" pictures. It's usually people's breath, rain drops or snow flakes glowing out of focus from the flash, a camera strap being hit by the flash (and they like to make a point of stating it isn't a camera flash, even though you can usually see the texture of the strap's material).

 

[da.gee]

A ghost or maybe the Virgin Mary.

 

[Patsplace]

Wade,
On the bottom of your posts you have a light in operation. What is it anyway?

Pat

 

[Steve L]

Wade,
On the bottom of your posts you have a light in operation. What is it anyway?

Pat

It's a Dereelight CL1H.