Disappointed with new batch of Eneloops...

[RobSpook]

Am I right to be disappointed with my new batch of Eneloops? I just purchased 20 new AA's from T-D, the same place I purchased most of my original stash back in 2006 (I think...)

These cells were packaged in flat packs with foil backs instead of the incredibly over-packaged plastic cases from 2006.

The original batch which is basically batteries #1 through 68 all tested between approx. 1980 mah and 2100 mah on a refresh & analyize cycle fresh from the packaging.

(EDIT: My R&A Cycle is always using 1000 mah charge and 500 mah discharge)

Last night I ran an R&A cycle on the first pack of new ones and got the following results:

#69 - 1793 mah
#70 - 1788 mah
#71 - 1825 mah
#72 - 1800 mah

Now to be fair about my comparison, the charging environment has changed in these aspects:
1) The original batch was tested with an R&A cycle on a 1st generation MAHA C-9000 charger purchased on pre-order from T-D, and the new ones are tested on the same model, but replaced by T-D approx 6 months later and is known by CPFers to report lower capacities.
2) The charger was plugged into a 240v source since I was located in Germany with the original batch, and is now in the USA with a 120v source. This shouldn't affect charging or discharging since the charger should be getting the exact same DC voltage regardless of the input voltage and frequency.

Another fact: My maintenance routine for my batteries is to do an R&A cycle on the first charge of a calendar year. Last week I did an R&A cycle on a set of four original batch batteries and all four tested in the same range as the new ones. I can't compare these results to the original R&A because of the charger change, and this was only the 2nd R&A cycle for this batch since they were wasted by being used in my laptop mouse and keyboard and hadn't needed a recharge since I purchased them!

So... I have no intention of returning the batteries because I know regardless of their measured capacity they are the best for my uses, and they match what the original capacities are now.

I'm just looking for your opinion on this, and possibly if anyone else has measured the capacity of newer Eneloops on a C-9000 and get similar results?

Thanks,

RobSpook

PS - Eneloop + Fenix LD10 = :thumbsup:

 

[Black Rose]

What is the date code on your Eneloops?

 

[Hitthespot]

This is just a shot in the dark.... It could be your original Eneloops were bought and tested pretty close to their manufacturing date. The new ones you purchased may have been sitting for sometime and may require a few cycles to bring them upto peak performance.

On a more sour note, I hope Eneloop isn't cheapening their batteries. That would be a real bummer!

Bill

 

[Marduke]

I suspect a few cycles will liven them right up.

 

[jahxman]

I suspect a few cycles will liven them right up.

This has been my experience with eneloops - the first few cycles are under 2 Amp hours and then they come back up to around 2.13 to 2.16 Ah

 

[Black Rose]

I purchased 16 Duraloop AAAs last week and all of them were manufactured on September 26, 2008.

One thing I have noticed is that even though all of my cells are from the same batch, the 3 sets that received "discharge, charge, discharge, break-in" treatment are reporting higher capacities than the set that simply received "discharge, break-in" treatment.


Basically showing what Marduke said...a couple of cycles brings them around.

 

[Mr Happy]

I think your current results of ~1800 mAh on R&A are somewhat normal for eneloops, and your earlier results as high as 2100 mAh are entirely out of range.

Things to bear in mind about this are firstly that the C9000 R&A cycle tends to give low estimates for eneloops compared to the break-in cycle because the charge part of the R&A terminates on high voltage at 1.47 V. This will leave the cells slightly under charged and needing a top-off period to reach maximum charge. The R&A cycle does not give the cells time for that top-off charge to occur. For a good estimate of capacity, run a break-in cycle. I would use R&A mainly for the R and less for the A.

Secondly, the life-cycle capacity curve of eneloops starts out low and has an upward trend over the first few cycles before flattening out. It will take 5-10 cycles before the cells reach peak performance.

Your results are consistent with the results I have always obtained with both old and new eneloops. I get about 1800-1850 mAh on R&A and I get about 1950-2000 mAh on break-in. As others have said, I suspect your numbers will pick up a bit after a few cycles or after a break-in.

 

[RobSpook]

Your results are consistent with the results I have always obtained with both old and new eneloops. I get about 1800-1850 mAh on R&A and I get about 1950-2000 mAh on break-in. As others have said, I suspect your numbers will pick up a bit after a few cycles or after a break-in.

Ah, thanks much to everyone who responded!

Thanks Mr. Happy for your response especially... I was hoping either you or SilverFox would respond because I always considered you guys the CPF authority on Eneloops and batteries in general.

I feel better knowing R&A results and that they are consistent with mine.

Rob

 

[Turak]

How quickly people forget.....or fail to use the search functions....

Search for previous posts about Eneloops and break in cycles versus R/A cycles.


I did some testing on at least 24 - 2006 Eneloop cells during 2008 using 2 different MH-C9000's attempting to determine which worked better on bringing a new (i.e. 2006) Eneloop to maximum capacity; multiple R/A cycles or multiple Break-in cycles.

The testing I did on over 24 2006 Eneloops indicated that in every case, 2 or 3 Break-in cycles increased the overall capacity better than running multiple R/A cycles. There are at least a few ideas, theories, reasons on why this tends to work this way.

I HIGHLY recommend running 2 or 3 Break-in cycles, with a Discharge cycle in between each Break-In cycle on ANY NEW cells or any cells that have been sitting for more than a month before using them.

Keep in mind too...there have been many other posts about missing terminations on various cells.....

ALL new cells, yes even the beloved Eneloops are subject to missing the termination on the first few cycles (i.e. 1-5) when using chargers that use -deltaV for the primary termination method. Almost all low to mid-cost chargers use -deltaV for the primary termination method. Main reason, it is the cheapest and easiest to implement.

The MH-C9000 would likely not suffer from this problem, because of the way it actually terminates on maxV (which is 1.47V) almost all the time. Very few cells hit -deltaV on the MH-C9000, resulting in slightly undercharged cells.

Missed terminations can happen at ANY AND ALL charge rates on new cells, although the lower rates make it even more likely to occur.

 

[RobSpook]

What is the date code on your Eneloops?

09-06 and can't read the last two digits. All my new ones are the same.