Disaster in the Making

[Roger Sully]

I have worked in security on both the supervisory and no-supervisory sides of the fence.While I understand Maglites not being allowed

I think it is irresponsible for them to tell you no flashlights are permitted.
You are responsible for the safety and well being of a number of people including yourself. Should a medical emergency arise inside of a haunted house setting, not being able to assess the situation could turn out to be more of a liability.
I'm assuming that the haunted house staff will be trying to scare people? Someone trpping or twisting an ankle etc is a very real possibility.

Dude Im scared for you!!! :eeksign:

 

[NonSenCe]

1. take couple flashlights with you anyways.
2. bring dozen fauxtons to hand off to other security guys that came without any light.

 

[gsxrac]

My opinion. Trip! Trip, fall, hurt yourself. Then, forward your lawyer that email. This way you wont need the job anymore and will have plenty of extra cash to buy new flashlights. Ohh and it will also make the security company not only require but provide flashlights for their personel.

Or call OSHA. They can probably fix the problem for you. Working in the dark and not being allowed to carry a flashlight constitutes an occupational safety hazard to me?

 

[ghostguy6]

I had a meeting with some of my guys about this and the general consensus is without flashlights we will not be working. It is just to dangerous for us, especially those in the parking lot. Im ok with limiting the size of the lights to nothing larger than 2 D cells since everyone already has energizer work lights with traffic wands that were donated by a local supplier.

I should clarify that this is a charity fund raising event so we are volunteering our time.

I'll just have to wait until I get a reply to my email to see what happens. I really would hate to bail on a charitable event.

 

[Greta]

well... if everything is black, and your in that environment for a prolonged period...I can see where someone can become disoriented if a bright light was suddenly turned on in their face and fall into a well, off the roof, drive into a ditch, etc.

This would be my concern more than anything else. And perhaps it is the concern of the company too? Maybe? On the other hand, if the company is handing out strobes, perhaps they should be more concerned with sending people into seizures?!?!?

 

[Patriot]

While I cringingly appreciate some of compromised views on this subject with regards to flashlight size, possibly because they think it accomplishes something noble, I still have to object to the principle of it. It's important to understand what's at the heart of the matter here since assaulting someone by means of a flashlight is already an illegal activity. This being the reality, I suspect it's an issue of perceived image in which case, is this really a valid reason to implement any restriction? I certainly don't think so.

If some are going to be that effected by the mere appearance of something to the point of getting "their way," what then is the logical reasoning for defending the use of a shorter light, say a 2D or a 2C, because eventually someone will be offended by that as well. Pretty soon it's not even a matter of physical size and suddenly a small percentage of people will become offended about the photon output itself. The "you assaulted me with your bright light" mentality will prevail and we'll have a new breed of case specialized lawers scampering around handling laser and flashlight "attacks."

Someone will always object to anything and it's up to a few to stand our ground with sound reasoning. When a law is broken then it's at that time we deal with it. It's not logical or practical to restrict the tools of LEOs, security, or the citizen on the grounds that they could intimidate someone looking in the direction of the inanimate object. Those who are living with such a fragile perception of the world they live in are just going to have to deal with it for the sake of the greater good of individual freedoms. The same who object to the very existence of a black 3D mag probably don't give a second thought to the 3 ton SUV blasting by them at 60mph as they walk down the sidewalk. I would say that people like this have a perception handicap and need to be helped.

 

[Dances with Flashlight]

While I cringingly appreciate some of compromised views on this subject with regards to flashlight size, possibly because they think it accomplishes something noble, I still have to object to the principle of it. It's important to understand what's at the heart of the matter here since assaulting someone by means of a flashlight is already an illegal activity. This being the reality, I suspect it's an issue of perceived image in which case, is this really a valid reason to implement any restriction? I certainly don't think so.

If some are going to be that effected by the mere appearance of something to the point of getting "their way," what then is the logical reasoning for defending the use of a shorter light, say a 2D or a 2C, because eventually someone will be offended by that as well. Pretty soon it's not even a matter of physical size and suddenly a small percentage of people will become offended about the photon output itself. The "you assaulted me with your bright light" mentality will prevail and we'll have a new breed of case specialized lawers scampering around handling laser and flashlight "attacks."

Someone will always object to anything and it's up to a few to stand our ground with sound reasoning. When a law is broken then it's at that time we deal with it. It's not logical or practical to restrict the tools of LEOs, security, or the citizen on the grounds that they could intimidate someone looking in the direction of the inanimate object. Those who are living with such a fragile perception of the world they live in are just going to have to deal with it for the sake of the greater good of individual freedoms. The same who object to the very existence of a black 3D mag probably don't give a second thought to the 3 ton SUV blasting by them at 60mph as they walk down the sidewalk. I would say that people like this have a perception handicap and need to be helped.

+ 1 on everything!

 

[Nitroz]

I want to punch people who think like this right in the throat

Next they'll be saying no silverware at dinner and everyone has to eat with their hands.:thumbsdow

I want NOTHING to do with people with this type of mindset.:scowl:

Let them fend for themselves when the SHTF.

I almost (not really) wish something bad would happen so they get sued due to the fact the staff was ill-prepared for an emergency.
Just about anything can be used as a weapon....stomping on someones head with work boots would do far more damage....Show up naked so you can avoid any problems..:sigh:...oh wait, you might poke someones eye out with you p*n*s:duh2:


Ok, I'm done ranting...FOOLS!

OMG! That had me rotfl.

I know that the world is desensitized by the news and the government and businesses want us to be a bunch of sheeples!

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

If this is a charity event, then they really can't afford any lawsuits from people being beaten or from someone getting hurt from not having a light. I think they want to avoid lawsuits but aren't getting the whole picture. Explain the whole situation to them. They are dealing with all volunteers for help. Get together with your coworkers and stand united in telling them that you won't work without flashlights. I agree that going without them is an occupational hazard and could get them fined by OSHA. There is the liability of the workers getting hurt and the liability of others getting hurt if you don't have flashlights. Explain that the big maglites aren't the only lights made and show some smaller less threatening ones to them that will prevent liability issues either way. If they don't see reason at this point, quit in force. You don't want to get sued during a job you aren't making any money on because of the boss's ignorance and from trouble that you saw coming. I commend you for doing volunteer work for your community. Not enough people volunteer their time for something other than for themselves. The world would be a much better place if they did. However, at some point, you have to cover your butt and think about protecting yourself and your family. Nothing will ruin a streak of volunteer service like losing a lawsuit for something stupid and having to work like a dog the rest of your life to pay the winning party. If they refuse to let you have flashlights, but you still want to do the work, take the flashlights anyway. If you use lights that are too small to be a weapon, and they catch you, the worst they can do is fire you from a nonpaying job. Last time I checked, few if any places have laws against having a flashlight. They have no power over you, and you're helping them out. Do what you want and take some flashlights.

 

[Dr Jekell]

Let see:

Event being held at Night - Check
Staff Members dressed in black - Check
Presence of moving vehicles - Check
Reduced Lighting inside the venue - Check
Possibility of children/infirm persons attending - Check
No Flashlights allowed - Check

From above I will bet that if something happens the following will occur:

1) Blame throwing by the organizers
2) Insurance will not pay out
3) A very high possibly that criminal charges will be laid
4) Lawyers getting involved
5) Media coverage most likely front page material

If I was the OP I would either

A) Refuse to attend the event & pass along my concerns to the relevant authorities.

Or

B) Prepare to attend the event carrying several small flashlights & encouraging my workmates to do the same, Print out & keep all correspondence with the organiser including the referenced email, your replies, anything send/received by you or your workmates by yourself or the organisers. Then get together with your workmates & anyone else affected & make a written complaint about the "ruling" to the organiser then have it delivered by courier to the organisers and be sure to ask that they reply to these concerns by at least 2-3 days before the event.

Then keep any & all paperwork relating to the event together, make several copies of it & leave a copy with your lawyer, a friend, several of your work mates etc.

Use the three C's - CYA (Cover your ***), CSM (Cover it some more), CEM (Cover it even more)

The paperwork will help to save you big $$$$$$ if anything goes down.

 

[Cahl]

I could see that they might not want people running around with 6-cell maglites and the niton xmas:

But banning ALL flashlights? Thats just .. wow .. (BTW, fists are weapons too, leave those at home)

 

[Monocrom]

Not surprised. I once worked for Guardsmark. They passed a policy of "no cellphones while on-duty."

Everyone ignored it. Even the Security Supervisors at the site.

Carry your lights. The worst thing they'll do is fire you. Oooo... So you go out and get another security job from another security company. The pay will be about the same, and they likely won't have such a retarded policy in place.

I work security for a living. Unless you're part of that rare minority of security guards who are paid more than $20-$25 thousand a year, then it's not going to matter if they fire you.

 

[Vinniec5]

Want 1 good reason for flashlights that night that cant be shot down? The Six Flags Great Adventure fire in 1984 in the Haunted House. Eight People died because they couldn't see to get out before they suffocated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haunted_Castle_(Six_Flags_Great_Adventure) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haunted_Castle_(Six_Flags_Great_Adventure) I posted it again but it worked for me on my message and on yours. Let me know if it still doesnt work thx Illum

 

[Illum]

Want 1 good reason for flashlights that night that cant be shot down? The Six Flags Great Adventure fire in 1984 in the Haunted House. Eight People died because they couldn't see to get out before they suffocated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haunted_Castle_(Six_Flags_Great_Adventure)

that link of yours is inclusive of the parenthesis ")" giving you an error when you click it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haunted_Castle_at_Six_Flags_Great_Adventure

 

[ghostguy6]

Well I do have some good news to share. I had a very long and heated meeting with the oraganizers and we will be allowed to carry small flashlights. I think the only reason we got away with being allowed to carry small lights is because no one else is available to work security for the event. Without security the event is a no go so they are stuck with us. One thing I do know for sure is I will never do any work for this charity again.

We were also given a walk though of the haunted house where I had to use my E2DL to light the way. Even with the house lights on there are several dark spots.

 

[jp2515]

Well I do have some good news to share. I had a very long and heated meeting with the oraganizers and we will be allowed to carry small flashlights. I think the only reason we got away with being allowed to carry small lights is because no one else is available to work security for the event. Without security the event is a no go so they are stuck with us. One thing I do know for sure is I will never do any work for this charity again.

We were also given a walk though of the haunted house where I had to use my E2DL to light the way. Even with the house lights on there are several dark spots.

In your discussion with the organizers, did they give any valid reasons/arguments why security could not carry flashlights?

 

[smokelaw1]

In your discussion with the organizers, did they give any valid reasons/arguments why security could not carry flashlights?

I was wondering the same thing.
Now...what is "small?" The Malkoff WIdcat on a MD3 body is smaller than a 2C...and should be "sufficient," and even has a nice useful 40(ish) lumen low(er) beam.

 

[ghostguy6]

In your discussion with the organizers, did they give any valid reasons/arguments why security could not carry flashlights?

They said " Flashlights are being seen as weapons in the public eye, we dont want to run the risk of being associated with any weapons."

We are still limited to 2 D cells but only because we had some supplied for traffic control. They would prefer if the staff working inside carried the smaller tactical sized lights. I made sure I didnt refer to any lights as "tactical" lights in meeting.

 

[Owen]

They said " Flashlights are being seen as weapons in the public eye, we dont want to run the risk of being associated with any weapons."

LMAO, but they want you to dress like a SWAT team

 

[flasherByNight]

Is this a TSA event :nana: