Do you know what is holding up the P61L?

[divine]

You know what I just thought of?

A spring won't draw enough heat away from a high powered LED module. We know this...

If Surefire releases the P61L tomorrow with a spring as its heat sink, it isn't going to work.

If Surefire releases the P61L tomorrow with body contact as its heat sink, it is going to work.

If Gene's Patent for using body contact as a heat sink the following day... Surefire is going to owe Gene a LOT of money!

I think Gene owns the P61L with his patent! I don't see how Surefire can make it happen with that patent in place.

I would be surprised if Surefire hasn't offered Gene money to be able to use his (pending) patent.

Did you notice how Surefire has been selling all their LED upgrades as complete heads? I think this is part of the reason why.


Tell me your thoughts.

 

[Yoda4561]

Surefire wants to use their standard P60 design, it guarantees 100% compatibility with all their P60 lights. If they were willing to do a full on heatsink module, they would have done so a long time ago, and malkoffs wouldn't be nearly as popular as they are. I doubt we'll see a P61l for another 2 years, when led efficiencies get to the point where they can do 200 lumens with the same heat as their current P60l.

 

[kramer5150]

x2... theres no way to physically sink heat away from the light engine without as much body contact as possible. So the current P60L spring-design won't work at the targeted 200L (at least not with any kind of reliability). In order to get ~200L out the front of a cree R2, the DC circuit will have to draw ~650 mah from the 2x16340 sized cells, and deliver a good dose of power to the emitter.

 

[KDOG3]

Well I had a crazy idea. Why not take some ribbon-strips about 3/8" wide attatch it with a little epoxy to the "neck" of the P60/P61L modules and have coil around and outward till it makes contact with the body by trying to "uncoil" itself. That way heat will transfer out to the copper strip and work its way out to the body of the light that its in. This would make use of that "cavity" thats there between the base of the module and the body of the lights. Just a thought. I also thought that the sticker/label they have on the P60L holds heat in as well. Maybe removing that would help too.

 

[kyhunter1]

I too would like to see what Surefire will to with the P61L. For now, in my opinion, the M60 cannot be beat. Hands down, the best drop in period.

You know what I just thought of?

A spring won't draw enough heat away from a high powered LED module. We know this...

If Surefire releases the P61L tomorrow with a spring as its heat sink, it isn't going to work.

If Surefire releases the P61L tomorrow with body contact as its heat sink, it is going to work.

If Gene's Patent for using body contact as a heat sink the following day... Surefire is going to owe Gene a LOT of money!

I think Gene owns the P61L with his patent! I don't see how Surefire can make it happen with that patent in place.

I would be surprised if Surefire hasn't offered Gene money to be able to use his (pending) patent.

Did you notice how Surefire has been selling all their LED upgrades as complete heads? I think this is part of the reason why.


Tell me your thoughts.

 

[Sgt. LED]

They keep cooking prototypes looking for a way to have the design of the unit the same as everything else. They can't bring themselves to make it look different so it doesn't have enough mass or body contact to deal with the heat.

It just isn't going to come to reality till the led's run cooler. I think I posted this same stuff in the last P61L thread.

They need to stop wasting money and cut a deal with Gene. Which they most likely are! Remember he recently started up the production line M60's...................
Why do you think he made that move?

 

[kramer5150]

theres also the tolerance stack up issue with the current 6P design... hence the large spring is NEEDED to auto-adjust for manufacturing variation.

 

[divine]

I'm sure Surefire wouldn't let someone else manufacture a product for them, for the sake that someone else would have control of (part of) their company image.

It would be worth whatever cost to be able to produce the product themselves. The problem with that is, it might not be worth producing at all depending on how much in royalties they have to pay. The profit might be too low after all is said and done.

We will probably see it stay as it is, with Gene making his own product and Surefire avoiding the P61L.


When Gene gets his patent, think of how it will change what we see here. Basically everyone who makes a P60 LED module with a similar design will have to stop or pay. That's where the production line comes in.

 

[Sgt. LED]

:thumbsup: True, true.

 

[Yoda4561]

I don't think the patent is just on the general shape of the heatsink. My guess on the main focus of the patent is the optical system he uses, in combination with the full sized heatsink and potted electronics.

 

[divine]

According to the website:

Malkoff Device's Dropins solve these problems with patent-pending heatsinks that allow use of high-output LEDs (up to 200+ lumens) while drawing the heat away from the LED and driver.

I guess I could be wrong.