Does a Turnigy Accucel (6 or 8) test cell capacity?

[Moddoo]

I am ready to try a hobby charger.

I have read a bunch of stuff on here about various chargers.

I have many laptop salvaged 18650s, and would like to find out the remaining capacity of them.

I also will be building some multi cell packs soon, and need to have a balancing charger for them.


Please let me know if these cheap chargers will test my cells, and packs for capacity.

If not, please recommend something that will work for me.

Thanks

 

[rmteo]

Both of them (and most, if not all hobby chargers) can test the discharge capacity of your cell/pack. With the Accucel 6, maximum discharge is 5W - not sure about the 8 but I'm guessing it will be about 15W.

 

[KiwiMark]

Both of them (and most, if not all hobby chargers) can test the discharge capacity of your cell/pack. With the Accucel 6, maximum discharge is 5W - not sure about the 8 but I'm guessing it will be about 15W.

The Accucel 8 has a maximum discharge of 25W or 5A whichever comes first. This was the main reason I bought a 8 when I already had the 6.

I can not only discharge a cell and see the capacity, but I can graph it on my laptop as well.

 

[Moddoo]

thanks a lot guys.

I'm probably going for the accucell 8 then.

...unless I get sidetracked to something nicer.

 

[rmteo]

For situations where high discharge rates are needed (up to 10A, 150W), I use one of these http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXPYT8&P=ML

 

[kneighbour]

thanks a lot guys.

I'm probably going for the accucell 8 then.

...unless I get sidetracked to something nicer.

I have noticed that some Accucell 8 units do not have the USB port (at all), or have a non working one. Some Accucell 6 units do not have the power socket - some do. So if you do buy one - I suggest it would be a good idea to confirm with the seller what you are getting.
I have ordered an Accucell 6 - but for my next unit I think I will go for a better brand. Perhaps the iCharger...

 

[KiwiMark]

I have ordered an Accucell 6 - but for my next unit I think I will go for a better brand. Perhaps the iCharger...

I have bought:
Accucell 6
Accucell 8150
iCharger 106B+
iCharger 208B

The iChargers are definitely and noticeably better with many superior features, better UI and better performance.
The Accucell 6 is plenty capable - it will out do the Pila IBC charger that many on this forum are big fans of. There is no problem charging your cells with this well priced hobby charger.
But the iCharger is a cut above, they are dearer but they are also definitely better. The 208B can be powered by anything with enough amps and a voltage between 4.5V & 32V - that is some fantastic flexibility! With up to 20A and up to 350W and up to 8 Li-ion cells with balancing - there isn't much that it can't handle. You just need to be willing to pay well over $100 to buy it.
The 106B+ is excellent and costs $80 + shipping, it is still a LOT better in many ways than the Turnigy chargers.

The ability of being able to customise the terminal voltages for Li-ion charging is enough to make the iCharger way ahead of the Turnigy chargers. With the Turnigy chargers and most similar priced brands you charge the LiFe to 3.6V, LiIo to 4.1V and LiPo to 4.2V. With the iCharger the defaults are the same but you can alter any of those within a range, i.e. you can charge LiPo to anything from 4.0V to 4.3V - this allows you to choose a more gentle treatment of your cells for longer life or you can use the 4.3V charging on those newer cells that are designed to charge to a higher voltage like the Samsung 18650 3000mAh cells.

 

[45/70]

......With the iCharger the defaults are the same but you can alter any of those within a range, i.e. you can charge LiPo to anything from 4.0V to 4.3V - this allows you to choose a more gentle treatment of your cells for longer life or you can use the 4.3V charging on those newer cells that are designed to charge to a higher voltage like the Samsung 18650 3000mAh cells.

Sorry for going OT Moddoo, but I wish you could go 4.35 Volt, as that is the recommended CV for the Samsung 30A cells. The 28A (2800mAh) are CV 4.30 Volt, but not the 30A.

I've been looking for a hack to do this with my 106B+, haven't found one yet. It may be possible to set the charger's voltage 0.05 Volt higher and go about it that way, but then everything else will be 0.05 Volt off as well. I'm reluctant to go that route. I'm not sure if it would work anyway and thus haven't bought any of the 30A cells. Of course I could charge them at 4.30 Volt with the iCharger and then finish them with a bench supply, but that just seems like too much trouble.

Dave

 

[KiwiMark]

Sorry for going OT Moddoo, but I wish you could go 4.35 Volt, as that is the recommended CV for the Samsung 30A cells. The 28A (2800mAh) are CV 4.30 Volt, but not the 30A.

What's the difference, in terms of capacity put into the cell, between 4.30 & 4.35? I wouldn't have thought that there would really have been much to worry about there.

There are firmware updates that can be put onto the iChargers - is it possible for a future firmware update to expand the range of voltages that you can set? Maybe this needs to be asked of someone that is more technically knowledgeable about writing firmware updates?

None of this is a big deal to me because I don't currently have any 4.35V Li-ion cells and even if I bought some I don't know that I'd mind just charging to 4.30V - that would offer much better capacity than with the chargers that can't go past 4.20V.

 

[Stephen Wallace]

I have noticed that some Accucell 8 units do not have the USB port (at all), or have a non working one. Some Accucell 6 units do not have the power socket - some do. So if you do buy one - I suggest it would be a good idea to confirm with the seller what you are getting.
I have ordered an Accucell 6 - but for my next unit I think I will go for a better brand. Perhaps the iCharger...

I have bought:
Accucell 6
Accucell 8150
iCharger 106B+
iCharger 208B

The iChargers are definitely and noticeably better with many superior features, better UI and better performance.
The Accucell 6 is plenty capable - it will out do the Pila IBC charger that many on this forum are big fans of. There is no problem charging your cells with this well priced hobby charger.
But the iCharger is a cut above, they are dearer but they are also definitely better. The 208B can be powered by anything with enough amps and a voltage between 4.5V & 32V - that is some fantastic flexibility! With up to 20A and up to 350W and up to 8 Li-ion cells with balancing - there isn't much that it can't handle. You just need to be willing to pay well over $100 to buy it.
The 106B+ is excellent and costs $80 + shipping, it is still a LOT better in many ways than the Turnigy chargers.

The ability of being able to customise the terminal voltages for Li-ion charging is enough to make the iCharger way ahead of the Turnigy chargers. With the Turnigy chargers and most similar priced brands you charge the LiFe to 3.6V, LiIo to 4.1V and LiPo to 4.2V. With the iCharger the defaults are the same but you can alter any of those within a range, i.e. you can charge LiPo to anything from 4.0V to 4.3V - this allows you to choose a more gentle treatment of your cells for longer life or you can use the 4.3V charging on those newer cells that are designed to charge to a higher voltage like the Samsung 18650 3000mAh cells.

I agree with both of the above comments.

I myself purchased an Accucel-8150 recently, to surplant an earlier hobby charger that I had been using. That one got the job done perfectly well, but I was after a slightly wider feature set, and specifically wanted a charger that I could connect to my PC. My original charger should have had that feature, but I had no luck getting it to work.

So, I did some research, found that the Accucel was available in the UK, that it had the USB port, software was supplied, along with a cable, that there was a decent selection of charging adapters included, along with a temperature sensor. Having power cables with banana plugs already attached, along with battery clips that the banana plugs plugged in to was also a bonus.

When the charger actually arrived there were only two charging adapters, no CD ROM, no USB cable, no temperature sensor, and the power cables had small crocodile clips hard wired to them - no banana plugs, and the clips provided were not the large type that attach to a 12v car battery. To add insult to injury, while there is a USB socket, as kneighbour stated, it doesn't actually seem to work on my unit. I've tried different cables, different drivers, different logging software, and I cannot seem to get any communication between the charger and PC. My research had turned up information about the original spec of the charger, not the current spec.

Not what I had planned to do - I don't need three hobby chargers! - but I then paid a bit more and got an iCharger 106B+ (would have held out for something that could charge eight Li cells, but that was a fair chunk more expensive), and was able to link to my PC with no issues whatsoever. Not to mention that the feature set was even wider than that of the Accucel. Cable, software and temperature sensor were all included as standard, as well as having banana plug power cables (AND a socket for a laptop type powerpack) and the large plug in clips to attack a 12 volt battery. It didn't come with a selection of charging cables, but then, it didn't claim to.

The Accucel is a bigger, more impressive looking charger, with a large LCD, and sounds like a great deal, with a good selection of accessories included. However, with newer versions not having all the accessories that the older ones had, it just isn't as good a deal anymore, and in my case, doesn't do what I wanted it to do. The iCharger is definitely the better charger of the two.

 

[KiwiMark]

The Accucel is a bigger, more impressive looking charger, with a large LCD, and sounds like a great deal, with a good selection of accessories included. However, with newer versions not having all the accessories that the older ones had, it just isn't as good a deal any more, and in my case, doesn't do what I wanted it to do. The iCharger is definitely the better charger of the two.

When I bought my Accucel 8150 it did come with the temperature sensor and PC connection (I have used it successfully to graph some charges and discharges). I got a bunch of connections (that I never used) as well as the big clamps for connecting it to a car battery. Overall it was pretty good, but it cost ~$70. Now they sell for about $40 and have the same specs, but they seem to have ditched the USB port & temperature sensor - you get less, but you pay less.
A lot of people will buy the new revised 8150 because it is a really good price for the specs & performance. The iCharger is definitely better, but many people wont pay more for a charger that does exactly the same job.
My view is that you pay the price for a good quality product once and then use it for years - after using the 106B+ for a while I became dissatisfied with my Accucel 8150 despite it doing the job just fine, I got used to the nicer UI on the iCharger. So now I've replaced the 8150 with an iCharger 208B which I really like - sure it cost a bit, but I think I can get a few good years of use out of it so the value per dollar spent is actually quite good.

Now I'll end up selling the Accucel 8150 for less than half what I paid, but that isn't all that big a dollar loss and I'll just have to live with that cost.

Would I recommend the cheaper chargers now? Well, if I was to start again I'd definitely just go straight to the iCharger 208B - but for someone that doesn't want to spend too much and wants to be able to charge & discharge up to 8 Li-ion cells then yes, I'd recommend the Accucel 8150 as a worthwhile option. As long as the buyer realises that they wont get the computer interface or temperature sensor and that the charger is not going to be as good as one that costs 3 times as much. The Pila IBC costs more than the Accucel 8150 and it has the tiniest fraction of the 8150's features and specs, the Accucel is WAY better value for money!
If the Pila is worth $50 then the iCharger 106B+ is an absolute bargain at $80 and the iCharger 208B is very reasonably priced too!
Even the humble Accucel-6 can discharge cells and give a capacity reading, charge cells at a wide range of current (0.1A to 6.0A) and handle LiFePO4, LiCo, NiCd, NiMH & PB chemistry batteries - how many cradle chargers can do that?

For the tech savvy tinkerers on this forum I'd definitely recommend getting a hobby charger rather than a cradle charger for the far superior level of information from the read-out as well as the colossal step-up in flexibility that you get. Which one I'd recommend depends on several factors including the spending limit - if you are OK with spending a bit more to get a better model then any of the iCharger brand are worth their extra cost. No one ever regretted buying quality!

 

[Stephen Wallace]

Suffice to say that it cost more than $40 in the UK.....

 

[45/70]

What's the difference, in terms of capacity put into the cell, between 4.30 & 4.35? I wouldn't have thought that there would really have been much to worry about there.

Hi Mark. I would guess that the difference is 150-200mAh. Actually, it could very well be that the Samsung 30A cells are actually the same as the 28A cells, but for some reason or another are capable of being charged to 4.35 Volts rather than 4.30 Volts. If you look at HKJ's graphs of the 30A cell charged to 4.20 Volts vs. 4.35 Volts, you can get some idea of the difference the CV voltage has on this cell's capacity and voltage properties under load.

My biggest interest in the higher voltage cells isn't the increased capacity so much as the increased ability to hold higher voltage under load. I have a particular light where this is critical and these cells have peaked my interest in them. In fact, I may go ahead and get a couple and hope that Junsi does in fact provide an upgrade to the iChargers so these cells can be charged to spec. Here's hoping.

Dave

 

[KiwiMark]

In fact, I may go ahead and get a couple and hope that Junsi does in fact provide an upgrade to the iChargers so these cells can be charged to spec.

Maybe it would be worth sending an E-Mail to Junsi to enquire about that possibility? It's possible that a few enquiries about expanding the CC to CV change-over voltage to a maximum of 4.35V may prompt them to make a change on the next firmware version they put out.

 

[TSellers]

Is it possible to 'cheat' with the chargers like the Accucel for example to get the higher voltage capacity for the new 3400mah 18650B cells by using the LiPo setting for example?

 

[tatasal]

Is it possible to 'cheat' with the chargers like the Accucel for example to get the higher voltage capacity for the new 3400mah 18650B cells by using the LiPo setting for example?

Do you mean to use the LIPO mode ( which terminates at 4.2V) for your Li-Ions? You can do that, but like in my iCharger, you don't have to 'cheat' since you can adjust the termination voltage for Li-Ions from 3.90V to 4.20V (4.10V default) and for Lipos, 4.00V to 4.30V (4.20V default), all at 0.01V increments. If the Accucell does not have this feature, then use the LIPO mode if you want the termination voltage at 4.20V.

 

[TSellers]

Thanks for that. I think I'll also go for an iCharger. With that unit it would appear there is some hope they will adjust the firmware so you can get a Panasonic NCR18650B up to 4.35v termination voltage. I was also curious if you could charge the LiFePO4 AA cells in it (I think they have a termination voltage of 3.6 - 3.8 don't they)?

 

[tatasal]

Thanks for that. I think I'll also go for an iCharger. With that unit it would appear there is some hope they will adjust the firmware so you can get a Panasonic NCR18650B up to 4.35v termination voltage. I was also curious if you could charge the LiFePO4 AA cells in it (I think they have a termination voltage of 3.6 - 3.8 don't they)?

Taking at look at the link below, it does say the max charge voltage of the NCRs are at 4.20V only:

http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf2/ACA4000/ACA4000CE240.pdf

 

[TSellers]

Thanks for that. I recall reading a discussion here about folks working with the unprotected Sanyo 2600mAh UR18650FM and how the iCharger just goes to 4.3v and it would need a firmware adjustment to get the full 4.35v that it was rated at. As I tried to find it again I also found this one which also discusses the topic. Regarding the Panasonic cell, there are specs for the unprotected one here (I also see they have the weight at 65grams, not sure if that is correct because the Protected Panasonic that was tested by HKJ is listed at 47grams so I guess there is either an error on someone's site, or packing all that chemistry in there has a price to pay in weight as well). And I also just noted that some had posted a link to a cheaper charger that has a 4.35v cutoff here. But I see there are more of low end ones starting to pop up here and there.

 

[HKJ]

Thanks for that. I recall reading a discussion here about folks working with the unprotected Sanyo 2600mAh UR18650FM and how the iCharger just goes to 4.3v and it would need a firmware adjustment to get the full 4.35v that it was rated at. As I tried to find it again I also found this one which also discusses the topic. Regarding the Panasonic cell, there are specs for the unprotected one here (I also see they have the weight at 65grams, not sure if that is correct because the Protected Panasonic that was tested by HKJ is listed at 47grams so I guess there is either an error on someone's site, or packing all that chemistry in there has a price to pay in weight as well). And I also just noted that some had posted a link to a cheaper charger that has a 4.35v cutoff here. But I see there are more of low end ones starting to pop up here and there.

I insist that a protected 3400mAh Panasonic is about 47 to 49 gram depending on construction, not anywhere near 65 gram. The Panasonic is also 4.20 volt, do not try 4.35 volt on it!
Cottonpicker has a 4.35 volt charger, he can be found on cpfmarketplace and I have done a review of his 4.35 volt charger.

Generally I do not recommend the very cheap chargers, they do often have some problems.