Early Snowstorms Pound Europe

Silviron

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Re: Global Warming Pounds Europe

The thing that I find most interesting about people (Those that don't have a vested financial, political or philosophical interest in promoting it) who see 'global warming' as a some huge crisis and believe that humanity has enough control over conditions to make a SIGNIFICANT difference in it must have no faith in 'God OR Gaia'.

Do they ever stop to think that "Mother Nature" or "The Creator" or whatever, may have a PLAN?

And I am somewhat heartened that the Planet Mars is apparently going through some degree of climate change... Sure, it is Bush's / Haliburton's fault somehow... But at least they can't blame it on all the SUV's and coal fired generators on that planet.
 

Billson

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Re: Global Warming Pounds Europe

Unless I read your post wrong, are you sayng that it's ok to keep destroying our environment because God will fix it for us?:huh2:
 
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Silviron

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Re: Global Warming Pounds Europe

No, I didn't intend to imply that; Either you DID read it wrong or I'm a less compentent wordsmith that I thought I was.

What I was trying to get people to think about is:

That people who REALLY believe in this stuff seem to think that the force of government is more powerful and that THEY know better than God, Gaia (or whatever).

That MAYBE for some reason that is too inscrutable or too complex for normal people to understand that 'global warming' IF it is happening at all is SUPPOSED to happen.

But, I suppose I ought to just give it up, because so few people can actually grasp the science and statistics of the subject on a global (Macro) scale in the first place... Most people can barely understand the stuff on a local / regional (Micro) scale, and all too many can't even form their own opinions; They believe whatever the "talking heads" on TV or the agenda driven 'scientists' and 'journalists' tell them to believe. Me injecting another dimension to consider will just make their heads hurt.

As someone who has seen so many of the huge, lonely places of the world, I have a different opinion of the impact of Man on the Earth than most people (who tend to live in cities, and if they get out of the cities at all and venture into 'flyover country', they usually go to tourist places where the impact of man is still significant.)

From what I have seen of the world though, the entire works of man through all history add up to little more than a pimple on the @$$ of Mother Earth. And pimples heal, leaving unblemished skin.

Personally, I believe that even if we put ALL of our effort into destroying the Earth, wiping ourselves out in the process, that in a very short time (on a geological scale), it would take a huge archaelogical project to locate a trace of our previous existence.
 

ikendu

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Re: Global Warming Pounds Europe

Silviron said:
From what I have seen of the world though, the entire works of man through all history add up to little more than a pimple on the @$$ of Mother Earth. And pimples heal, leaving unblemished skin.

That is an interesting notion, and one that clearly has some real truth to it.

Look at the "lost" civilizations of the Maya. Whole thriving cities now covered over by thick, "inpenetrable" jungle; completely lost to the memories of even the descendents of the people that still live in the area. ...all "healed over".

Of course, the civilizations are gone and the people had to witness the collapse of their society. One theory is I've seen is that the Mayans deforested their local environment that lead to the collapse of their farming ecology. So, yes, the earth heals (in one form or another) but the humans may suffer along the way. The program the other night on the "Little Ice Age" talked about the human suffering (many people simply starved to death or succumbed to illness in a weakened state) as they were too slow to adapt their crops to the changing climate. I suppose that many of the leaders of that time might have said "no one understands for sure what is happening, so why should we change what has always worked fine for us!?!".

And that might be the ultimate truth for us. All too often we fail to understand what is happening (it is often complex) until it is simply too late. Even now, no one is sure why the "Little Ice Age" happened, so what chance did they have at the time to understand or do anything about it.
 

jayflash

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Re: Global Warming Pounds Europe

I can't speak for other countries but our industries, governments, and many of our citizens waste an absolutely staggering amount of energy, resources, food and money. Even if we aren't causing global warming, minimising the massive waste in every area of our lives may allow our nation to remain a world power with good living conditions for its citizens. I don't believe the USA can continue on its present path without bankrupting the average Joe. Some will argue that we are already there.

Manufacturing products which utilize free (solar, wind, biomass, bio diesel, geothermal, etc) energy will improve our economy, balance of trade, job security and national security. The USA can produce the machinery and engineering to harness free energy and sell it to the rest of the world. We can set the right environmental examples and have it work to our advantage.

While it still may not be provable beyond a reasonable doubt that mankind's actions are causing climatic change, we should change for our own economic salvation. The vibe I get here is deep denial; that it doesn't even pay to change and that we have the right to go on consuming a disproportionate amount of the world's resources.
 

JonSidneyB

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Re: Global Warming Pounds Europe

What you say can be true but the first business to take this on will have to have a positive NPV or face distruction.

It it common that the company that it willing to take on a task first is the one that dies while the one that follows just picks up the knowledge of the former and survives.
 

jayflash

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Re: Global Warming Pounds Europe

Our nation overcame numerous obstacals, and threats, with good leadership. There are countless examples, ie. landing on the moon. Economic greed and maintaining the power of those who have it is, too often, the intent of our leaders.

Giving billions of our tax dollars to the oil industry is the exact opposite of what will promote energy independence. If these tax breaks were targeted to green manufacturing there'd be less risk of failure for those who choose to inovate.

Still, we waste so much at every level. It may be expedient doing so in the short term, but we are running an environmental and economic deficit for that convenience.
 

JonSidneyB

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Re: Global Warming Pounds Europe

? I need to do more reading.

Conoco, was a money looser. Sinclair, bankrupt. Gibble, bankrupt. Getty, bankrupt. At one time there were 100+ oil companies. Some were aquired but most were not stock buy outs, they failed.

When I worked in the Oil industry in an oil town, there was not any special government money flowing in. Times may have changed since then.

Then I was able to see the industry first hand, the only one we thought was evil was Kerr
 

NewBie

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Re: Global Warming Pounds Europe

jayflash said:
Manufacturing products which utilize free (solar, wind, biomass, bio diesel, geothermal, etc) energy will improve our economy, balance of trade, job security and national security. The USA can produce the machinery and engineering to harness free energy and sell it to the rest of the world. We can set the right environmental examples and have it work to our advantage.

While it still may not be provable beyond a reasonable doubt that mankind's actions are causing climatic change, we should change for our own economic salvation. The vibe I get here is deep denial; that it doesn't even pay to change and that we have the right to go on consuming a disproportionate amount of the world's resources.

Since you brought it up, one point here, is that though the USA consumes a disproportionate amount of the worlds resources, it also produces a tremendous amount of the worlds products. Through Clinton pushing and lecturing businesses to go overseas, the American know how has taught folks all over the world. Because of this, China is becomming more and more of a threat. Plus there are alot of secrets we shared with the Chinese, under contract during previous president. That and China has a great spy network, who is shaking us down for secrets, and there are plenty of stories in the press of folks that got caught. It is estimated that there are a multitude of folks that haven't been caught. All this has allowed them to leapfrog by decades, and jumpstart their economy. Meanwhile, we send an awful lot of dollars overseas, while industries die here.

The USA produces 32.9% of the Gross National product with 4.65% of the world's citizens, with countries like Germany 6.0% GNP, Britain 4.6% GNP,
France 4.2% GDP, China 3.7% GDP. This would mean it would make alot of sense for us to consume alot more of the worlds raw materials, and we do.

The average American also can purchase more for his money than anyone in the world. The purchasing power parity shakes out at 37,600.00 per person. The next closest is Canada 29,400, followed by Japan 28,000, Australia 27,000, Netherlands 26,900, then follow the rest of European countries who are strapped down by the heavy taxes and social welfare, which cripple their countries with a heavy burden
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/gnp.html


Economies that burden their citizens with heavy taxes and social welfare programs really show up in this list:
Long-term unemployment
Italy (63%)
Greece (52%)
Belgium (52%)
Germany (52%)
Spain (43%)
Portugal (38%)
France (37%)
Switzerland (30%)
Britain (28%)
Japan (27%)
Finland (27%)
Austria (23%)
Sweden (22%)
Denmark (21%)
Australia (21%)
Canada (10%)
USA (6%)
Norway (5%) <- The exception, but they have a tremendous injection of surplus oil revenues into their economy, which is somewhat unique.

And the US workers are the hardest workers in the industrial world,
"Workers in the United States are putting in more hours than anyone else in the industrialized world.

In hard numbers, what Johnson is saying is that his ILO statistics show that last year the average American worked 1,978 hours -- up from 1,942 hours in 1990. That represents an increase of almost a week of work. And it registers Americans as working longer hours than Canadians, Germans, Japanese and other workers."
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/CAREER/trends/08/30/ilo.study/

The Germans even work 500 hours less per year than Americans, which works out to 12 and a half weeks less.

Adding in developing nations, the only Czech Republic and South Korea put in more hours.



Anyhow, since we by and far produce the most product in the world (33% of it), it truely does make since that we'd also consume the most worlds raw goods, such as oil, especially since Americans are the hardest workers in the industrialized world, putting in more hours than anyone in the industrialized nations.

So, we are second in the world for oil production (Millions of barrels per day).
1 Saudi Arabia: 8.528
2 United States: 8.091
3 Russia: 7.014
4 Iran: 3.775

And we are first for consumption (Millions of barrels per day).
1 United States: 19.993
2 Japan: 5.423
3 China: 4.854
4 Germany: 2.814

But, since we both consume and produce, 19.993-8.528 = 11.465 Millions of barrels per day. This brings things much more into perspective, when you consider we produce 33% of the worlds goods.

Lets take Germany that produces 6% GNP, and the USA which produces 33%.
33/6= 5.5 times. So we take Germanies oil consumption, 2.814, and multiply it by 5.5, which equals 15.477 Millions of barrels per day. The USA is not at all far from this target, or is much better, depending on which side of the fence you look from.

Anyhow, I responded to your comment since you brought it up. Could we please get back to how Global Warming is Pounding Europe right now, and get more pictures?
 

JonSidneyB

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Re: Global Warming Pounds Europe

I was going to ask what percent of the world American agriculture feeds? I honestly don't know the answer, but I did think it might justify greater consumption of resources to produce the food if we can do it more efficiently than other nations.
 

NewBie

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Re: Global Warming Pounds Europe

Jon,

In 2002, the number of farms was estimated to be 2.16 million, and the average U.S. farmer produced enough food each year to feed more than 100 people. In addition to providing an abundant food supply for domestic markets, crops from nearly one-third of U.S. farm acreage are exported to overseas customers.

Americans enjoy some of the lowest costs for food around the world. When compared to income:
U.S. 6.4 percent (in 1923 it was 25.3%)
United Kingdom 10.2%
Canada 10.4%
Netherlands 10.5%
New Zealand 10.9%
Mexico 24.0%
India 48.4%
Philippines 52.9%

According to the USDA
- labor accounted for almost 40 percent of the value of resources used in farming in 1950
- by 1993 it had declined to 9.5 percent.

Since 1810, output per farm worker has increased by 2400%, with the gains since 1950 increasing by 600%.

The United States produces more food than any other nation in the world and is the world's largest exporter of agricultural products.

In addition to providing an abundant food supply for domestic markets, crops from nearly one-third of U.S. farm acreage are exported to overseas customers.

American agriculture can also be celebrated for its efforts in environmental conservation. Farmers and ranchers provide food and habitat for approximately 75 percent of this nation's wildlife. The current farm bill has provisions for farmers to create environmental habitats that will ensure protection of the land and water resources of this country.

American Farmers are extremely environmentally concious, and they use computer and satellite technology to map their fields for production inputs. This increases yields and reduces crop inputs like fertilizer and crop protection chemicals. This helps our environment tremendously.

Additionally, 25 percent of the farms, which are small family farms, account for 88 percent of US production.


Anyhow, seems alot of folks are getting all political over this thread. I've tried several times to remind folks of the topic, to no avail. I'm sorry if I hurt folks feelings or anything, I was just trying to see if anyone had any photos of the big and early snow storms over in Europe that have been on the news. It seems some want to spin this whole thing into a political nightmare, which does not belong on cpf, and should be discussed in the underground if folks want to drag politics into the whole deal.


*Please* stay on the topic, the snow storm that hit Europe.

.
 
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NewBie

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Anyhow, the snow picture above is nice, and thanks for posting it. I noticed our second very early snow in the hills when I looked out the window.

I went out yesterday, driving in the hills near home, and we were lucky to have a second uncharacteristic very early snowstorm hit the hills. The snow level tonight time was expected to get down to 500ft, nearly down to my house, but we didn't actually get any snow here. Normally we don't see this sort of thing until January. I was lucky enough to catch some clearing of the weather for a few pictures:

Down by the house:
snownow.jpg


Up the road:
tablsnow.jpg


snowhill.jpg


mountsn.jpg


whitsnow.jpg


I hopefully everyone enjoys the photos as much as I enjoyed our second very early snow.


Christmas Time is around the corner!

.
 
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geepondy

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Wow, Newbie those are great pics! So much of the US I haven't seen but want to including the great northwest. Here is a picture taken on Thanksgiving day in Vermont where snow is not unusual but rather expected this time of year.

original.jpg
 

tvodrd

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I was born in Ohio, was moved to Michigan for a couple years, and was drug left in 1955. I am very appreciative of the fact I don't own a snowshovel! :green: (I do have to visit RI next month and again in Jan- do rental cars come with chains?)

Larry
 

cratz2

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Wow NewBie... that last pic you posted is exceptionally nice. Well composed and metered. If the sun was just a tad to the left so that it wasn't being partially blocked by the tree, it would border on perfect!
 

geepondy

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Chances are better then even that you'll be ok in RI, especially in Dec. What I have found in southern NE where I live now vs. northern NE where I grew up is that it could rain as well as snow during the winter, particularly near the coast but on the other hand we have had some whopper storms of up to three feet of snow or more as it will drag the moisture off the ocean. But if such a storm occurs you won't have to worry because you won't be able to fly in (or fly out of course).

tvodrd said:
I was born in Ohio, was moved to Michigan for a couple years, and was drug left in 1955. I am very appreciative of the fact I don't own a snowshovel! :green: (I do have to visit RI next month and again in Jan- do rental cars come with chains?)

Larry
 
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