Eneloop - Performance Details for Experts

[Turbo DV8]

Panasonic (and Matsushita in general) is known for quality, durability, long product life.

Yeah. I bought an $1800 Panasonic plasma TV. It crapped out one month out of manufacturer warranty. Panasonic deemed it irrepairable, basically said it hoped I enjoyed my $1800 TV for the 13 months it lasted. For the rest of my life, I wouldn't buy so much as a Panasonic toothpick...

 

[NiOOH]

Although a great source of info, I could never stop myself from asking-how accurate are these data?
Let's have a look at all this from a marketing perspectieve. Eneloop is a major Sanyo brand and a major investment. Aggresive marketing is a must, especially when the LSD technology is not limited to Sanyo. I don't say the data presentesd in these articles are faked, but still there are many ways to present some data and pick samples for comparison.

 

[Kaamos]

Yeah. I bought an $1800 Panasonic plasma TV. It crapped out one month out of manufacturer warranty. Panasonic deemed it irrepairable, basically said it hoped I enjoyed my $1800 TV for the 13 months it lasted. For the rest of my life, I wouldn't buy so much as a Panasonic toothpick...

I have to admit that I also try to avoid Panasonic products, not because of apparent lack of quality, but because of the very disappointing customer care of the country organization here in Finland regarding a faulty product (headphones). There are few things that can be produced without a faulty one here and there, but I think the real difference between manufacturers is in how they handle that fact. A global company should keep an eye on the country representatives to avoid bad image. The country organizations are largely the "face" of the company.

But I guess bashing Panasonic is not the key point here. Are there similar comparisons between different LSD batteries? I mean the fast charge/fast discharge cycle test? I tried the search, found comparisons of capacities and self discharge rates but not durability figures.

 

[shelm]

About the Eneloop Performance Details for Experts, i still wouldnt know what the critical voltage of the Eneloops is before it becomes unhealthy and damaging for the cell. In reviews and runtime tests for low current flashlights (e.g. HKJ's review of Klarux Mi X6) the voltage of the 1.2V NiMH cell goes down to 0.42 Volt ( I=50mA ) before the light drops out of regulation and gets dimmer:

Klarus MIX6 Low : ( ..graph.. ) Low will stabilize down to 0.42 volt.

This voltage is clearly below the official Klarus MiX6 operating voltage of "0.8V-1.8V" so i am wondering how we determine when we should recharge the Eneloop in our high performance Cree LED flashlights.

So is there any official critical Eneloop voltage? --- Or when do you exchange the cells? In particular, i would be interested in doing some Eneloop runtime tests in my little flashlights.

 

[Mr Happy]

So is there any official critical Eneloop voltage? --- Or when do you exchange the cells? In particular, i would be interested in doing some Eneloop runtime tests in my little flashlights.

If it's a single eneloop in a single cell application, then the critical voltage is 0 V. However the light will stop working before that point is reached.

If there are two or more eneloops in series, then the critical voltage is quite high, maybe 1.1 V, depending on the current draw. You must under all circumstances avoid reverse biasing a cell and forcing it into electrolysis mode. The best advice is to stop and recharge as soon as the light shows any sign of dimming, or if it loses the high or turbo modes. Never run a two cell light to exhaustion.

 

[shelm]

If it's a single eneloop in a single cell application, then the critical voltage is 0 V. However the light will stop working before that point is reached.
...
Never run a two cell light to exhaustion.

My light(s) are single-cell flashlights. So you're saying that it is safe and (more or less) harmless to run the 1x Eneloop in the flashlight as long as the light produces light (even beyond the point of dimming and until the light stops producing *any* light)?

In the Klarus example, which is a 1x AAA light, there's nothing bad/harmful about ending up with a 0.42V charged Eneloop AAA cell? :)

Thanks for your answer!

 

[Mr Happy]

My light(s) are single-cell flashlights. So you're saying that it is safe and (more or less) harmless to run the 1x Eneloop in the flashlight as long as the light produces light (even beyond the point of dimming and until the light stops producing *any* light)?

In the Klarus example, which is a 1x AAA light, there's nothing bad/harmful about ending up with a 0.42V charged Eneloop AAA cell? :)

There is no theory or evidence that this would be harmful to an eneloop. I have not tested that myself, and most people are cautious about doing it since it was harmful to older designs of NiMH cell. But if you do it once or twice by accident or necessity you should not be concerned.

 

[AnAppleSnail]

Sacrifice an eneloop to test this. One CPF member wrapped a few in foil for a week or two and recharged them to see what would happen when his children's toys ran them flat. No apparent harm, but he didn't have a CBA to run them on, either.

 

[shelm]

Sacrifice an eneloop to test this. One CPF member wrapped a few in foil for a week or two and recharged them to see what would happen when his children's toys ran them flat. No apparent harm, but he didn't have a CBA to run them on, either.

Okay, i will sacrifice an eneloop (both AA, and AAA) to test this. Will do repeated runtime tests just with them, i.e. until the light is *very apparently* dimmer than it should be for its mode (Hi - Med - Lo).

Erh, CBA? got no idea what that is :)

 

[AnAppleSnail]

Okay, i will sacrifice an eneloop (both AA, and AAA) to test this. Will do repeated runtime tests just with them, i.e. until the light is *very apparently* dimmer than it should be for its mode (Hi - Med - Lo).

Erh, CBA? got no idea what that is :)

Charger/battery analyzer, or something. One of the widgets that tells you "This battery too xxxx watts to charge and delivered yyyy mAh on discharge."

 

[Mr Happy]

The C9000 works fine enough for testing eneloops. No need for a CBA.