Fenix L2D Q5 vs R100, R80, Q2, P4 Comparison Review: RUNTIMES+

selfbuilt

selfbuilt

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This thread is a quick comparison of the Turbo modes of various Fenix L2D lights (Cree P4, Q2, Q5 and Rebel R80 and R100) in various configurations (L2D, L1D, P2D). For more detailed runtimes of lower modes, please see my Fenix Rebel vs Cree: L1D/L1T/P2D OUTPUT, RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS! thread.

The contenders:

From left to right: Standard Cree P4, Rebel R100 Premium, Cree Q5 Premium (not shown is Q2 Special Edition, which looks like the P4 but with an OP reflector, and the LxTv2.0 Rebel R80, which looks like the R100 head). The P4, Q2, and R80 were bought from fenix-store.com, and the R100 and Q5 were bought from fenix-tactical.com.

Q5-2.jpg


Beamshots:

On Turbo, with 2x Duracell 2650 NimH in L2D body

Q5-4.jpg

Q5-3.jpg


Note that my camera seems to be accentuating the tint differences - it doesn't look quite so noticeable in real life. However, the P4 does have a cool blue-purple tint, the R100 has a warm yellow, and the Q5 is the whitest of the three. Although the overall output doesn't look all that different, this is probably just due to the cooler P4 tint looking brighter than it actually is, and the warmer R100 looking dimmer.

Method: All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, a la Quickbeam's FR.com method. My relative overall output numbers are typically similar to his, although generally a little lower. You can directly compare all my review graphs - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another.

Throw values are the square-root of lux measurements taken at 1m using a light meter.

Summary Chart for Turbo mode with 2650mAh NiMH in LxD, or AW Protected 3.7V RCR in P2D

Note that these are initial output values only - some lights decay faster than others before reaching a "steady-state" regulated value. See the runtime graphs below for more detailed information.

FenixSummary.gif


For comparison purposes, here are the results of a "ceiling-bounce" test in a small windowless room, with my light meter on the floor near the base of the light (which is shining upward in candle-mode), in a L2D body on NiMH:

Rebel R80: 5.6 lux
Rebel R100: 5.8 lux
Cree P4: 4.9 lux
Cree Q2: 5.5 lux
Cree Q5: 7.1 lux

As you can see the Q5 has a noticeable jump in output compared to the others - in L2D format. This effect is less pronounced in P2D or L1D format.

Runtimes:

All runtimes done in my lightbox under a cooling fan, with the identified batteries listed below.

Turbo mode in L2D format (2x NiMH Duracell 2650mAh)
Q5-2AAT.gif


Turbo mode in P2D format (1x AW RCR Protected 3.7V 750mAh)
Q5-CR123T.gif


Turbo mode in L1D format (1x NiMH Duracell 2650mAh)
Q5-1AAT.gif


For more detailed runtimes of the L1D in lower modes on alkaline for all heads, please see my Fenix Rebel vs Cree: L1D/L1T/P2D OUTPUT, RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS! thread.

Conclusion:
  • The new Cree Q5 is definitely the output winner in 2AA and 1CR123 formats, although the Rebel models typically have longer runtimes (especially in lower output modes).
  • On 1AA, the results aren't quite so clear cut, although the same general output/runtime relationship holds. The Q5 has the lowest runtime on 1AA (consistent with the presumably higher Vf of Q5 emitters).
  • The various heads show roughly equivalent maximum output in 2AA or 1RCR modes. In my sample runs, the Cree models tended to be just slightly brighter on 2AA, whereas and my Rebel R100 was slightly brighter on RCR. This could simply be natural variation in the runs, but it tends to accentuate the difference on the 2AA runtime graph compared to the RCR test.
  • The texture OP reflector on the Q2/Q5 Cree versions does help smooth out the rings in the beam, but this effect seems less agressive on my Q5 sample (either the OP is less agressive, or perhaps the emitter is not quite at the same height?).
  • The Rebel heads give a wider spillbeam than the Cree heads, with no evidence of rings.
  • Subjectively, the Rebel heads appear to produce better color rendition outdoors at night.
  • Frankly, I don't see how you'd go wrong with any of these lights! :)

To see detailed runtimes between the heads in low-med-hi modes (on 1AA only), please see my Fenix Rebel vs Cree: L1D/L1T/P2D OUTPUT, RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS! thread. Sorry, but I don't intend to recreate all those alkaline runs on L2D.

Cheers!
 
L

LED_Thrift

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Thank you again for your contributions to this community selfbuilt. Those graphs are GREAT.
 
gravityz

gravityz

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Yes selfbuilt

thanks for the updates

i think many of us which did not buy the L2DCE Q5 probably will after your results

if you are an 1x AA man than the rebel100 is the better choice
on 2x AA it is the Q5

i noticed that fenix-store does not list the rebel100 anymore so for those people who are still after a rebel100 they better start hunting for one.

for myself i am happy with my Q5 more light at the cost of runtime is not an issue for me as long as the trade off is not that big(like with the Q5)
 
rizky_p

rizky_p

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Nice indeed. A true comparison of the different generations of L2D with NUMBERs!! :D
 
selfbuilt

selfbuilt

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Thanks for support guys! :)

I must say, I was personally surprised to see how much better the Q5 Cree did on 2AA format. Been testing the 1AA format for so long, hadn't really kept a close eye on this format. ;)

i noticed that fenix-store does not list the rebel100 anymore so for those people who are still after a rebel100 they better start hunting for one.
From what I remember hearing, the relative scarcity of R100 premium emitters is one of the reasons why Fenix released the Q5 Cree. In support of that conclusion, you'll note this is the first Cree version to use the new Rebel exterior head styling. Personally, I rather like the Rebel beam profile and color rendition, but this Q5 is certainly no slouch!

One thing I didn't mention in the review - although David from fenix-store.com said Fenix engineer's have worked to minize the high output "flash" on low mode, my Q5 still has a very pronounced one. My Q5 was obtained from fenixtactical.com, but I would imagine they have a similar build level. Probably just luck of the draw for the time being.

Cheers!
 
gravityz

gravityz

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Thanks for support guys! :)

One thing I didn't mention in the review - although David from fenix-store.com said Fenix engineer's have worked to minize the high output "flash" on low mode, my Q5 still has a very pronounced one. My Q5 was obtained from fenixtactical.com, but I would imagine they have a similar build level. Probably just luck of the draw for the time being.

Cheers!

mine has the same thing
i have read some threads that this has been in there from day one so obviously they did not fix it.
 
NA8

NA8

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Looking at the 2xAA relative output of the rebel80, rebel100, and Q2; I wonder if you got one of the rumored rebel90s instead of a rebel80. There just doesn't seem to be the proportional output difference between the r80 and r100 compared to the chartbusting Q5. Any way you look at it, it seems you got an exceptional Q5 if Fenix's ratings are accurate at all.
 
Last edited:
gravityz

gravityz

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Looking at the 2xAA relative output of the rebel80, rebel100, and Q2; I wonder if you got one of the rumored rebel90s instead of a rebel80. There just doesn't seem to be the proportional output difference between the r80 and r100 compared to the chartbusting Q5. Any way you look at it, it seems you got an exceptional Q5 if Fenix's ratings are accurate at all.


my Q5 performs about the same(if i compare runtimes) so i do not think it is exeptional

as for specs
The Q5 is the only one which consumes more power than the fenix spec state

runtime on high accoording to fenix on high is 4 hours (real runtime is more than 4 hours 4:24)

runtime on turbo accoording to fenix 2.4 hours(real runtime is about 2 hours)

so on turbo this baby really performs but also consumes a bit more power that the previous Q2 and P4

i like the tradeoff, a lot more output and only minor loss of time
 
selfbuilt

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Looking at the 2xAA relative output of the rebel80, rebel100, and Q2; I wonder if you got one of the rumored rebel90s instead of a rebel80. There just doesn't seem to be the proportional output difference between the r80 and r100 compared to the chartbusting Q5. Any way you look at it, it seems you got an exceptional Q5 if Fenix's ratings are accurate at all.
I suspect you are right there NA8, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference between my Rebels in 2AA mode (it was more noticeable on 1AA). Could be a R90 instead of an R80 ... hard to know.

My Q5 does indeed seem to be a good one, as the output is a bit higher on 2AA than I would have expected. Of course, there's only so much you can tell from n=1 for each of the lights, but the relative relationships make sense (i.e. within flux bin range). Especially on the RCR graphs, where things fall out roughly where I would expect for a middle-of-the-range output based on identified flux bin.

mine has the same thing
i have read some threads that this has been in there from day one so obviously they did not fix it.
Yes, but it is variable. My R100 Premium is certainly less noticeable than the others. I don't doubt Fenix is working to fix the problem, but they certainly haven't yet on my Q5 sample.
 
S

StandardBattery

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Really nice summary Selfbuilt! :thumbsup:

I must have got one of the last L2D-RB100 from fenix-store, as I just got it last week, but I had bought it as a gift and I didn't have time to play with it very much before I packaged it up with some other lights. I think I'll get another to play with before they're all gone.

I like the Rebel LED. I wonder if some bigger company bought put in a huge order and that is why supplied dried up for the smaller guys. Maybe a flashlight company, or maybe because of the tint they are going into home lighting products.
 
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rizky_p

rizky_p

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@StandardBattery: no your RB100 is not the last :)

did not realized that RB100 is rare, i just got my L2D-RB 100 yesterday must be really lucky then.

I noticed from your result that rebel L2D has slightly better throw and runtime compared to Q5 probably because of the higher vF of Q5.

Really happy with my L2D-RB100 especially the warm colour of it.

thanks.
 
S

StandardBattery

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@StandardBattery: no your RB100 is not the last :)

did not realized that RB100 is rare, i just got my L2D-RB 100 yesterday must be really lucky then.

Did you get it from Fenix-store?? They are not listing it anymore, other dealers still have some available.

I also picked up one for myself, when it was clear that they may not be available much longer. I debated for a little while, since the next bin might be available soon and the RB100 will be old news. I have a feeling though that lumileds has got other applications for the leds, and they may not be so easy to find in flashlights from the larger manufacturers. Either way it's a great light, and I will try it with eneloops as I'm not using any other type of NiMh at the moment. Lithium/Lithium-Ion has just too many advantages. Of course I can always use regular Alkalines, just stay away from Turbo too often.
 
M

Mr Floppy

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Great review sir! I have all the L2D variations except the Q2 and the Q5. I think I'll skip the Q2 and just go for the Q5 based on these results.

Just a question about the ceiling bounce test, how high is your ceiling? Not that it matters since they all come from the same reference point but I'm just curious.
 
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jirik_cz

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Today I've made runtime test of L2D Q5 on turbo and I'm very surprised. I measured 2:25 on full brightness. So I've made a second test with another pair of batteries and the result is 2:20. Both tests done with sanyo 2700mAh.
It looks like not all Q5s have high Vf :-D

Unfortunately, this Fenix is not mine, it is only borrowed from our local Fenix dealer (kronium.cz).

beamshots from the second test:
l2dq5runtimegm2.jpg
 
gravityz

gravityz

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Today I've made runtime test of L2D Q5 on turbo and I'm very surprised. I measured 2:25 on full brightness. So I've made a second test with another pair of batteries and the result is 2:20. Both tests done with sanyo 2700mAh.
It looks like not all Q5s have high Vf :-D

Unfortunately, this Fenix is not mine, it is only borrowed from our local Fenix dealer (kronium.cz).

beamshots from the second test:
l2dq5runtimegm2.jpg

can you do the same with 1x AA

i tested this and got 1:50
current with 1xAA is 1.4 amps
2500/1400=1.8 hours is 1:48 minutes

current on turbo with 2x AA ia 1.9 amps
it should last 2500/1900*2=2.6 hours is 2 hours 36 minutes which is in line with the result you got.


i do not know if selfbuilt really tested it on 2x AA but i expect he did
 
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jirik_cz

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can you do the same with 1x AA

i tested this and got 1:50
current with 1xAA is 1.4 amps
2500/1400=1.8 hours is 1:48 minutes

current on turbo with 2x AA ia 1.9 amps
it should last 2500/1900*2=2.6 hours is 2 hours 36 minutes which is in line with the result you got.


i do not know if selfbuilt really tested it on 2x AA but i expect he did

I don't have L1D body now.

Your calculation is not correct, batteries in L2D are in series connection so only voltage is double but capacity remains the same.

I measured current on turbo and got 1,5A. But I think it is not valid number (also your 1,9A). Here on CPF I have read that you can't measure current on this kind of electronics with common multimeter, because you will get faulty numbers.
 
gravityz

gravityz

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i just did another reading

this time with 2x AA in turbo i got indeed 1.4 amps
i apparently hooked up my amp meter wrong(it has a 20 amp setting)

i found another thing

while i was doing some reading i did not get very good contact with the back of the tube. sometimes it worked sometimes it did not
it turned out that the back of the tube also looked like it was partly anodized.

i removed some of it and i got way better contact as well as more light(at least i think

so on turbo it is using the same amps as
with 1xAA but uses double the voltage(thus higher output)

so new calculation should be 2500/1400=1.8 hours as in 1:48

sorry, i was mislead by the wrong amp

so if somebody else is getting 2:20 hours that is nice but then i think his output is not as much as we are getting.
 
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jirik_cz

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I was really surprised by such a long runtime, but I have to say that L2D Q5 is absolutely as bright as L2D Rebel (my runtime 2:10).

here are some beamshots:

l2d Q5

l2D rebel 0100

p3d q5

and all together = 570 lumens :devil:
 
Julian Holtz

Julian Holtz

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Nice pictures!

One can see, that the Q5 has a little more output than the Rebel, but I like the warm tint of the rebel.
I just upgraded my L1D with a Q5 WH.
I cant wait for my L2D R100 to arrive, then I can swap the heads;)

Cheers,

Julez
 

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