Fenix P2D: how white?

[gearbox]

After having been disappointed in my Inova keychain lights (handy size, but kept turning on from static shock nearly every time I would grab my keys or exit my truck), I decided I wanted a small, capable light at the sacrifice of size. I've been a fan of Surefire for a while and love a spot-free white light. I've got a failed G2 (after only a few weeks of irregular usage, now awaiting an LED upgrade), an E2 that hasn't failed after 5 years, and a rarely-used D3 that serves as my bump-in-the-night sidearm torch.
Every LED I've seen has put out a distracting bluish light, and for inspection work on welds I really need a pure, natural light, or at least close to it, as even incandescent isn't "natural." Now, I haven't played with a lot of "good" LEDs, but even a Surefire X200 seemed a bit blue. Not excessive, but not preferrable. Are LEDs so much better now?

So my question, does the P2D put out a white light? Even at the low settings? How about when the battery has been used off and on for a month or three?

 

[carrot]

The thing is, white LEDs are actually blue LEDs with special phosphors that convert the blue to something closer to white. Personally I feel that the latest generation of LEDs are better, but still not perfect. You may wish to check them out?

I have been very pleasantly surprised with new "2.0w" Inova X1 that you can get at Target. It is a creamy white with no discernable tint (perhaps I got lucky with the Luxeon lottery? hopefully these new LEDs are more consistent) and definitely does not look the least bit bluish to me.

I'd like to mention that Fenix-Store.com has a very fair return policy -- if you are not satisfied you can just return them. I cannot say about the P2D but in my sample L1D-CE and L2D-CE, they are a cool white, again, not bluish to my eyes. The L2T is also worth looking at, IMO, because both of mine have great cool white tint with no distinguishable color. I asked 4sevens to give me the worst-tinted L2T he had and he said they all looked the same (strange, given the inconsistencies in Luxeon tints), so it appears Fenix is trying very hard to give a consistent customer experience.

So yes, I'd say LEDs have gotten better. You may like what you see this time around. It's funny I'm saying this, because I'm a huge fan of incandescent light myself...

Also, check out the Photon Freedom keychain lights. They are better made than the Inova Microlights and don't have the weird static problem.

 

[QuinnK]

I've been able to compare 4 P2Ds, and they've all been somewhat different. Not drastic, and all a good color, but compared with each other each one was different enough to easily tell. Ranged from slightly yellowish through what I would call basically white, to one slightly bluish. The eye can adapt quickly to variations, so it's hard to judge sometimes just how close to actual white a particular light is.

Take care... Quinn

 

[BB]

You might try a light from FoxFury--they claim:

Photopic Lighting emission matches the human eye perception of color intensity for each color in the spectrum. The LEDs are chosen to provide more Green than Yellow, because our eyes function in this way. The output is therefore a light output that provides better color rendition to the human eye. This reduces bleaching and washout, which is typical of too much light of the wrong color (usually present in fluorescent lights).

FoxFury mixes a few green LED's (in their examples, about 20 whites and 4 greens) with standard white LEDs in some of their lights.

You could try making a few test lights with mixes of brands/types of white LED's plus some others (green, red, etc.) LED's mixed in and see what gives you the best results for your application.

Once you settle on a LED "mix"... Then perhaps mod a flashlight/headlamp with your ideal lighting mix. It does not appear that you need too many of the green LEDs to help balance the light (20 to 4 of the standard 5mm LEDs?). You will probably need to experiment with mixing other colors in too... Red would seem to be a logical choice as White LEDs have little red in their spectrum.

I just received a P3D-CE Fenix the other day--it is a nice light--but it is still a "ghostly" shade of white light (not bad at all--but just not what it seems you are describing as what you need).

-Bill

 

[Learjet]

My camera set to "daylight" gives nice colour with the P2D. My P3D is a little more greenish, ever so slightly. To the eye they both look fairly close to white. Reading here it seems like another luxeon lottery.

 

[TORCH_BOY]

Even on the lowest setting its very white as compared to the Inova

 

[gearbox]

Whoops, I didn't mean to respond.
Err...I may as well ask: Does the color change with battery charge drainage?
I'm not terribly familiar with what a regulator does or does not...do.

 

[o0o]

Mine appears "snow white" on all settings when on a white wall...

However...


When used outside, the colors of green and red are a tad ghostly... which I assume means that the LED must be slightly tinted blue? Regardless, for an LED, mine gives great color rendition. But, mine doesn't bring the outdoor reds and greens out as well as an incandescent does.

Even with this said, I still prefer the LED... hate having to change incandescent bulbs every few hours of use, and hate the fade from white to yellow to amber to brown as battery power drops in incandescents.

 

[carrot]

Even with this said, I still prefer the LED... hate having to change incandescent bulbs every few hours of use, and hate the fade from white to yellow to amber to brown as battery power drops in incandescents.

Surefire bulbs are rated to last 30+ hours. The Surefire A2 does not dim during usage, providing beautiful regulated white light for 50 minutes. If you like the color rendition of incandescent you will probably appreciate the A2.

 

[gearbox]

Surefire bulbs are rated to last 30+ hours.

It kind of irks me that my 5-year old E2 with its original lamp has been dropped a few times, manually strobed, and been generally used like a workhorse, yet my G2 started dimming after not even one battery-change worth of total use -- maybe 30-45 minutes? It had never been dropped or abused or strobed or "worn." Surefire's answer to me was "...you can buy a new element."

I'm planning on putting a DX Cree into it. I see no reason to keep giving Surefire my money since I'm not LEO or .mil. "Hard use" means something else to them.



So does battery charge droop affect color in a regulated light?

 

[techwg]

My P2D CE is clinical white

 

[BB]

Whoops, I didn't mean to respond.
Err...I may as well ask: Does the color change with battery charge drainage?
I'm not terribly familiar with what a regulator does or does not...do.

LED's can change tints a bit as you change brightness (if it is a multi-level light) or as the batteries discharge. Personally, I don't really see the change.

Filament bulbs change color as the batteries discharge (get yellower)--everyone is familiar with this. Also, non-halogen bulbs blacken with tungsten deposits as the bulbs are used (the tungsten evaporates off of the filament and deposits on the glass--Halogen gas "scrubs" the tungsten off of the glass and redeposits the tungsten back onto the filament--Xenon and other "gas filled" bulbs darken slower because the pressure reduces the evaporation rate vs the cheaper vacuum "filled" bulbs).

Lastly, regulators take the variable battery voltage and convert it into a stable voltage (or current) for the bulbs so that they remain the same brightness over the life of the batteries. This is really noticeable for standard alkaline and carbon batteries which change from ~1.5 volts to ~1.0 volts as the batteries discharge.

Some battery technologies like lithium and many rechargeable chemistries maintain their voltages much better as they discharge (sometimes called a "flat" discharge curve). Many times people are pretty happy with an unregulated flashlight with lithiums vs the added expense (and a small loss in efficiency) of a regulated flashlight with lithiums.

Regulation also can add secondary benefits--such as filament bulbs which change color as the voltage/current changes. Also, filament bulbs (and even LED's too) can be damaged when freshly charged batteries with high "surface charge" voltage are put into a flashlight and turned on (flashbulb effect).

Regulation can take virtually all of the usable power out of a battery pack while maintaining a perfectly stable beam. However, this can sometimes be a problem--some battery chemistries (like lithium) can respond poorly to being fully discharged or even reversed charged (one one battery in a string of two or more batteries dies first and actually starts to be charged in the reversed direction). Batteries are much more prone to leak when dead/reversed charged or (lithium) can actually explode and catch fire (does not happen often--but is a possibility).

With rechargeable batteries, running them until they are dead or reversed charge usually kills the cell(s) or worst (again, depends on chemistry and cell construction). Regulators can make it difficult to see when the batteries are near depleted.

Lastly when regulators are used--new functions can be added--multiple light levels, flashing/strobing lights, low battery warning, etc. are a few. And, typically, single cell flashlights are less likely to have cell damage as one cell cannot ever be reversed charged and will probably not be fully discharged (to zero volts) before the user notices the light dimming significantly.

Does this help?

-Bill

 

[Steve L]

Originally Posted by gearbox
Whoops, I didn't mean to respond.
Err...I may as well ask: Does the color change with battery charge drainage?
I'm not terribly familiar with what a regulator does or does not...do.

To add to what Bill said, I have found some LED's to tint shift when current regulated. To get lower levels the LED's are fed progressively less current sometimes resulting in slight tint shifts(towards yellow green). PWM(pulse width modulation) is another story, these lights are always fed full power but pulsed on and off to achieve lower levels. No tint shift, but they have other problems. That being said I would buy current regulated lights over PWM any day of the week.

 

[o0o]

Surefire bulbs are rated to last 30+ hours. The Surefire A2 does not dim during usage, providing beautiful regulated white light for 50 minutes. If you like the color rendition of incandescent you will probably appreciate the A2.

I have an A2... love it.

In regards to Surefire bulbs lasting as long as their rating, I've RARELY seen it.

My A2 bulbs typically last 8-12 battery changes, and I am hard core about always changing batteries immediately after regulation drops (since running below full power isn't good on the bulbs).

Since each battery change occurs roughly after 60 minutes of use, my A2 bulbs generally last closer to 10 hours.

I've had similar results with my non-regulated incandescent Surefire models.

 

[carrot]

I have had about 4 bulbs replaced by Surefire for premature deaths. Size15's says he put over 30 hours into his A2 lamp... :shrug: