Flashlight to complement a handgun..

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Here are a few things I would offer as a LEO in a high activity assignment, working at night:

Find ways of alerting yourself to any break ins when you are home. You may only have seconds, since serious bad guys "flow" through a house mimicking a SWAT team. The serious bad guys will RUN to a bedroom when they've seen all the lights go out from outside.

In a hot prowl, start in darkness and flip light switches of rooms before entering them. The entire room lights up without drawing a beam back to you. The light usually comes from high up creating an overall illumination without big shadows from furniture, except underneath desks or tables. Use the flashlight just to fill in the shadows.

Time is way on the side of the resident, not the bad guy. Take your time, go very slowly and quietly. Listen like your life depends on it. The bad guys can't hide behind your couch forever. The more of them there are, the more noise they'll make. Both you and the bad guy(s) will get bored and anxious to "get it over with." The one who moves first loses. If you detect an actual bad guy, pull back and call 911 while using the gun for protection.

In one hot prowl, a bad guy hid behind a curtain and the home owner missed him and got stabbed, collapsing his lung. The homeowner was holding a gun, but didn't shoot. Why not? Well, there's some psychological issues that very few people are aware of. It's one thing to talk about "wasting" someone, it's another to try to do it for real.
 
Lightraven said:
Here are a few things I would offer as a LEO in a high activity assignment, working at night:

Find ways of alerting yourself to any break ins when you are home. You may only have seconds, since serious bad guys "flow" through a house mimicking a SWAT team. The serious bad guys will RUN to a bedroom when they've seen all the lights go out from outside.

In a hot prowl, start in darkness and flip light switches of rooms before entering them. The entire room lights up without drawing a beam back to you. The light usually comes from high up creating an overall illumination without big shadows from furniture, except underneath desks or tables. Use the flashlight just to fill in the shadows.

Time is way on the side of the resident, not the bad guy. Take your time, go very slowly and quietly. Listen like your life depends on it. The bad guys can't hide behind your couch forever. The more of them there are, the more noise they'll make. Both you and the bad guy(s) will get bored and anxious to "get it over with." The one who moves first loses. If you detect an actual bad guy, pull back and call 911 while using the gun for protection.

In one hot prowl, a bad guy hid behind a curtain and the home owner missed him and got stabbed, collapsing his lung. The homeowner was holding a gun, but didn't shoot. Why not? Well, there's some psychological issues that very few people are aware of. It's one thing to talk about "wasting" someone, it's another to try to do it for real.
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thanks for the advice, this seems like some good stuff. luckily i have a switch for a hallway light just outside my bedroom door so that helps me.

and your last statement is very true, I know it would be a lot tougher to pull the trigger than when I think about it. I like to think that me practicing shooting and using some tactical like maneuvers often makes me that much more comfortable with my gun, but there isnt much of a way to know until the situation arises. Luckily I live in Indiana, where it is legal to concealed carry a gun (a license which I have) and in most cases you dont have to worry about a lawsuit for shooting someone that invades your property.
 
Not true. Itnwould behoove you to go to a class. I don't know the type or name but a firearm buddy of mine told me about it. You think that if someone breaks into your house you can shoot them. It depends on the details. Details you are not concerned with. Issues like "was there a way for you to leave?" if so why did you kill that person? There are stupid legal issues that protect the criminal and not you. It is not a simple issue of killing a perp in your house. I has to be a legal and justified killing otherwise you go to jail.
 
About the last issue, my best advice is to learn the laws of deadly force. Spend more time studying that than tactics. It's a lot less sexy, but in my opinion, a lot more "tactical" because you will actually press the trigger on someone without hesitation when you know it is legal and proper to do so. You will also avoid "bad" or marginal shootings that could cause big problems.

Anybody that can cite the legal justification for the use of deadly force, define intent and list the categories of serious injuries and crimes in which intent to cause serious injury is legally presumed (and how they relate to the totality of the circumstances known at the time and the reasonable man standard) impresses me more than any SWAT "operator."
 
It's really very simple about what to do if someone enters your house and they aren't supposed to be there:

A) Find them (This could be you waiting in a room for them to come through or using any means to go to them. You could even use special tactics :) )

B) VERY QUICKLY determine if you have time to do "C". If surprised, then go straight to "D".

C) Look at their hands!!! If they have something that appears to be a gun then go straight to "D"! If they have anything else then tell them to STOP! If they come at you with or WITHOUT anything go straight to "D".

D) Shoot them.

Why?

Well it's because you cannot shoot anyone in most states inside your house unless you feel like you are in a situation where you aren't going to come out going "Shew, that could have been bad".

If they have a gun and you are not trained on how to deal with someone with a gun then you should just shoot. The justice system doesn't expect every civilian to treat a random person in their house like a cop would a person on the street. Just tell the cops they pointed it at you. Even if it wasn't a gun, well hell it looked like one and they pointed it at you. You would be safe.

If you don't see a gun, and choose not to shoot anyway :thinking:, you can only shoot if they come towards you in a fashion to harm you.

It's this simple: If after the fact you could say you thought you were going to die or be hurt, then you can shoot them until your walls have been repainted.


Ask any LEO and they will most likely tell you the same. At least that's what we tell folks. Well, in house anyway :poke:

A good lawyer, if you are sued or tried, will try to say the person was there for this or that reason and was trying to leave and you weren't justified in shooting. You don't have the right to just shoot people in your house anymore. You have to have a reason to think they weren't just going to leave and never come back.

Option E) Move to Texas and forget all of the above... :xyxgun:
 
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Search said:
Option E) Move to Texas and forget all of the above... :xyxgun:
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:grin2:


Here is the law in Indiana, in case anyone else is a Hoosier. This is directly copied and pasted from:

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar41/ch3.html



"IC 35-41-3
Chapter 3. Defenses Relating to Culpability

IC 35-41-3-1
Legal authority
 Sec. 1. A person is justified in engaging in conduct otherwise prohibited if he has legal authority to do so.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.1. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.7.

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
 Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (a)."


This is not the entire code, but it is all that relates to this situation. This is all I found, but if anyone else knows of any other laws or codes, let me know.
 
The big pain in the *** is when you have to justify what you thought was "reasonable force" lawyers can pick apart that detail for a long time
 
Solscud007 said:
The big pain in the *** is when you have to justify what you thought was "reasonable force" lawyers can pick apart that detail for a long time
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"You have two seconds to make a decision a lawyer will have two years to pick apart. Pick the right god **** decision."
 
Reasonable force has a hundred factors

What are you doing before the use of force?
Buying crack, arguing over a slut in a bar parking lot, calling some random person a racial epithet=wrong answer.

Do you encourage a fight, by word or action?
Or do you attempt to disengage, within reason (e.g. not leaving your kids behind)?

What causes you to stop your use of force?
Opponent surrenders and obeys commands?
Falls to ground?
Runs away?

What do you do after?
Flee and never contact authorities?
Flee, but contact authorities within an hour?
Stay at the scene?
Tamper with evidence or threaten/cajole witnesses?

What do you tell police?
"Lawyer. Now."
"The $%^&( had it coming!"
"This guy attacked me without cause (or demanded money, car keys, cell phone, etc.)while I was (parking my car, at home watching TV, eating dinner with my wife at a restaurant) and I had to defend (myself, my wife, this kid). May I speak with a lawyer before giving a statement. Thanks."

Reasonable force is often perceived through the lens of how reasonable the person is who used the force. Subtract points if you are wearing camouflage (and are not in a war zone), have a lot of piercings, visible tattoos or gang clothing. If you look like an FBI agent, you're more likely to be treated like one.
 
I only use the incan glock light as a backup on my firearm.
My main light to check things out is a Surefire 6PD with a hot LED.

Goto a range that allows you to shoot in the dark, see the complications of actually id'ing a target and accurately shooting bullets into vital zones.
I have tried many methods but the most accurate is a gun mounted light once the shooting starts.
 
I have a Ruger without a rail and a Glock with. The Glock has a TLR2 mounted and the Ruger has a Husky 2D Cree flashlight right beside it.

I am glad I live in Florida. You bust my door you have just authorized ther use of deadly force by Florida "Castle Doctrine". Covered in depth in our CWP class.

BTW, I will do whatever I have to not to hurt your dog. You however are another story. And I am NOT meaning anyone on this forum or thread.
 
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Well I just received my new flashlight. Ordered it on Sunday night and got it today :)

only problem is that the rail mount for the light does not work with my handgun, something I really didn't think about. The mount fits on (though its just a smidge too long,) but the space between the rail and the trigger guard is so little that the tailcap for the remote pressure switch extends too far back past the rail and is blocked by the trigger guard.

seems as though this rail/flashlight combo is meant for a shotgun or an AR-15 or something. Should have considered this but oh well. I may contact the company I bought it from, but since i bought it as a kit, I don't figure they can do much to return it.

Other than that, the flashlight is great. it is easy to operate, seems VERY sturdy, and the light has a very defined, clear beam, and of course is quite bright as well ;)


I do have one question... I have never bought any lithium batteries before, so I'm not up on prices and quality and the such. I went to buy some at Radio Shack and they wanted $14 EACH. I said no thanks and went to Walmart and got Energizers 2 for $10. is there a difference in quality or is Radio Shack just gouging prices?

Are the 18650's better than the CR123's?
 
bobby_7 said:
Well I just received my new flashlight. Ordered it on Sunday night and got it today :)

only problem is that the rail mount for the light does not work with my handgun, something I really didn't think about. The mount fits on (though its just a smidge too long,) but the space between the rail and the trigger guard is so little that the tailcap for the remote pressure switch extends too far back past the rail and is blocked by the trigger guard.

seems as though this rail/flashlight combo is meant for a shotgun or an AR-15 or something. Should have considered this but oh well. I may contact the company I bought it from, but since i bought it as a kit, I don't figure they can do much to return it.

Other than that, the flashlight is great. it is easy to operate, seems VERY sturdy, and the light has a very defined, clear beam, and of course is quite bright as well ;)


I do have one question... I have never bought any lithium batteries before, so I'm not up on prices and quality and the such. I went to buy some at Radio Shack and they wanted $14 EACH. I said no thanks and went to Walmart and got Energizers 2 for $10. is there a difference in quality or is Radio Shack just gouging prices?

Are the 18650's better than the CR123's?
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Ok first of all, which light and mount did you buy? post the link.

As for CR123s there are two options. buy direct from Surefire. buy a 12 pack. they cost about $1.75 each.

or if you want to buy online go to batterystation.com they have their brand batteries, but still made in the USA, for $1.25 each.

18650 will not work for you. CR123 are 17mm in diammeter. the 18650 are twice as long as CR123 and are 18mm in diammeter.

If your light is LED, you can use rechargeable 123s. go check out lighthound.com and get a pair of RCR123 and a battery charger. look for the AW brand.
 
If you can fit an 18650 in a light that is on a handgun you have made a mistake. For where I handgun is going to be used all handgun mounted lights are adequate. Well, perfect actually.

Yes hand held light belong in the hand and on a long gun or shotgun.
 
Solscud007 said:
Ok first of all, which light and mount did you buy? post the link.

As for CR123s there are two options. buy direct from Surefire. buy a 12 pack. they cost about $1.75 each.

or if you want to buy online go to batterystation.com they have their brand batteries, but still made in the USA, for $1.25 each.

18650 will not work for you. CR123 are 17mm in diammeter. the 18650 are twice as long as CR123 and are 18mm in diammeter.

If your light is LED, you can use rechargeable 123s. go check out lighthound.com and get a pair of RCR123 and a battery charger. look for the AW brand.
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I bought the EagleTac T100C2 Mark II. I dont really have a link for the mount and remote switch, it is just the one that came with the upgraded "Weapons Kit" with the flashlight. This is the EagleTac website:

http://www.eagletac.com/flashlights/t100c2.html

The mount and remote switch not fitting is not a big deal at all, as I had originally planned to just use it as a handheld light, rather than mount it on my gun. I may just save it for a reason to buy a shotgun later....

The EagleTac website says that 18650's will work. The light came with a battery tube that you put the two 123's in.

I will have to check out the websites you referred me to, thanks
 
I don't think the t100c2 was meant for handguns. To answer your previous question, I would definitely use 18650s instead of cr123. The run times are longer and cheaper in the long run since they are rechargeable.
 
Search said:
If you can fit an 18650 in a light that is on a handgun you have made a mistake. For where I handgun is going to be used all handgun mounted lights are adequate. Well, perfect actually.

Yes hand held light belong in the hand and on a long gun or shotgun.
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This works with a 18650! and it works well.

Snowmobiles_001.jpg


Snowmobiles_005.jpg


Snowmobiles_010.jpg
 
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firefighter1241 said:
I will say that it is very heavy for a pistol light
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This is an issue but not the biggest.

It's very common to see tactical teams pull out a pistol in extreme close quarters. They are also used with ballistic shields. You get the idea. With a light like that on the front they would have lost some of their mobility as they are no longer as short as they use to be. Most of the time it's probably not even an issue though.

but it was top of the line back in the day.
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This is why I said that. Yes, back in the day it was all there was. In todays time there are options that should eliminate the need for longer lights.

With an X series light from SF and a grip switch one would find the same thing but lighter and shorter :)
 
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