fogging surefire reflector

[tequilathursday]

Hey Guys,
As my luck would have it, I can't seem to purchase anything that works perfectly. My e2e foggs its reflector just like if you were to breathe on a cold window /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif. If it runs for more than a minute or two you can watch it grow more and more dull untill the output is greatly sacrificed. Once it cools it looks crystal clear again, but upon closer inspection there are fine radial scratches where it looks as if it was wiped with a cloth. There's also a large fingerprint on the reflector. And if that isn't enough there are 2 dings on the head (at the hex part) that appear to have been there before the HA coating. The nicks are no big deal as I'm quite used to defects, but the hazing reflector has me baffled. I can't find a replacement head on the surefire site. This cant be normal since it actually degrades performance.
Has anyone expirienced this ? I already unscrewed the bezel, and head, and very gently cleaned the reflector with very mild soap and lots of water while keeping hand pressure at a minimum. Blew it dry with "air in a can" then sat it head down on a lintfree cloth for a while to make sure all the moisture evaporated.
Fingerprints gone, looks real good, put it together and same thing. It hazed up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif. I've run the light for the last few days, 2nd set of batteries, and no change.
I'm gona contact surefire tomorrow to see if I can get a replacement head. My reason for this post is to find out if anyone has ever seen this happen???? I haven't.

Didn't mean to write a book. Just a little confused /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Thanks, Rich

 

[Size15's]

You opened up the bezel?
The bezel should be glued. You should really not open it up.
It is likely that there was sometime a bit wrong with the whole bezel and it needs to be replaced by contacting SureFire.

Once moisture gets in, it's takes ages to get rid of all of it in my experience.

I've heard of the E2e reflectors "dulling" when hot but not experience it myself. At least I've not noticed a drop in output as a result. Certainly, other reflector SureFires I have get just as hot if not hotter and I've not heard this 'fogging' mentioned on CPF is what seems like years.

I believe your best recourse is to contact SureFire and ask them to replace your bezel.
With the new one, don't take it apart!

Please let us know how you get on.

Al

 

[tequilathursday]

Hi Al.
Yeah I took it apart and it was glued. I figured I couldn't make it any worse. I didn't want to, but the fingerprint alone made it hard to resist. Once I ran it for more than a few minutes and noticed it fogging curiousity got the best of me and I had to /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif.
Thank's for the reply. I will contact surefire in the morning.
It's kind of funny, I'm actually used to having problems with everything. My xo3 I got this weekend has an offcentered and miscolored spot just like my first micra. But it does throw very nicely.

Thanks again. This forum is an awesome resource.

 

[Mr HG]

I have this same problem with my 2 E2E's and E2D.

 

[StEaLtH_]

Hmm i just tested this, and have it too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Here's some pics:

Btw that yellow thing on the LA that you see is... well i dont know :P

 

[Mr HG]

YES! thats what It looks like. Great pictures StEaLtH, thank you.

 

[tequilathursday]

Yup! Exactly what mine looks like too. Great pictures indeed. Well I guess I'm kind of relieved I'm not the only one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif But why? Maybe it was a coating problem from the factory. It's good to know its not common. If my new one does this I think I'll be heart broken. While I don't expect perfection from any product. Seeing this and others like it, on a light of this caliber is very disapointing.

Thanks guys for chiming in.

 

[juancho]

IMO if it were water vapor it would be eliminated after running the lamp for a while, since it is not, probably what you have is an excess of silicon oil running from the threads as it get hot. IMO
Internal fogging mostly occurs when is water vapor or moisture inside an enclosure that is on the cool or cold side and it get in contact with an ambient temperature that is warm. Or vice versa.
The solution is to put your bezel in the oven at low heat for a while to eliminate moisture, no moisture no fogging.
Is that don't work, you have fogging produced by heating the silicon, an excess of silicon oil should also be removed, specially you don't want any touching your lamp.
IMHO.

Juan C.

 

[Size15's]

I don't recommend you put any SureFire in the oven. Even on a very low heat.

The photos show what I've read can happen. However, I don't recall it causing a decline in output.

Would you say that it causes a noticable or significant decrease?

Thanks for the photos.

Al

 

[tequilathursday]

Noticable decrease, not dramatic, but the reflector goes from shinny to very dull. It starts to dull at the top near the bezel then works its way down. As this happens you can certainly ssee the hotspot get smaller and more defined and the typical 'incan yellow' is more evident.

note: my light had neither moisture or (at least after i cleaned it) no silicon what so ever.

true Juancho, just like automotive lamps that take on water/ condensation, ect, after the lamp runs for a short time the moisture is removed and the lamp funtions as normal...Therefore this problem must be integral to the reflector itself. imo

This is becoming an interesting topic

 

[jayflash]

This happened to me a few days ago and I just thought it was moisture (don't know why though) so I opened it and let the head sit in front of my dehumidifier. The fog on the reflector went away but I'll have to try it again.

Could it be outgassing from the lithium cells? I don't know how moisture got inside because it didn't get wet and other lights stored with the E2e are OK.

 

[jayflash]

I didn't let my E2e run long enough after the last fogging. The SOB did it again and a film is apparent on the lens too. White flakes from the lamps potting are also getting on the reflector.

I squirted several fills and rinses of alcohol into the bezel and am drying the whole, open, head and body next to a 60 watt lamp, in my dehumidified basement.

There is too little silicone too far away from the heat for it to be vaporizing.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[tequilathursday]

Hmmm, this is starting to change from an oddity to a characteristic. I wonder if many owners arn't letting there e2e's run long enough to see this happen.
e2e owners input greatly appriciated...
Mine will haze up in less than 5 minutes. btw my bulb is stock, i wonder if the mn02 bulb equipt lights does this also. I was going to change mine to the low output bulb for greater runtime, but I want to rectify this problem first.

Certainly interesting so far. I hope Al or pk can shed some light on the subject.

Rich

 

[McGizmo]

This is interesting?!?!? Al suggests not putting a SF in the oven for obvious and good reasons. However, one of you might want to put just the head in an oven to say 175F and see if the reflector fogs in the absence of the LA, batteries and being a closed system. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif If it still fogs, this would seem to indicate some film or other property in the reflective coating itself that is changing at elevated temp.

 

[jdriller]

Same thing happend to my PMR reflector. I was running a WA1274 with 6 Nimh AA's and the reflector would always fog.

After scratching many M@g reflectors, I learned how to clean mine (very carefully under running water, dish soap, clean fingers, and NO material -tissue, towel, lens cleaners, etc.- blow dry with hair dryer - very tedious) I also let it get very hot with the dryer.

After the second cleaning, it has not fogged since.

I believe that this is a moisture problem. If you use alcohol and heat, maybe you can get rid of the fog.

As always, your mileage may vary, and remember that all reflectors will scratch if you do not take the proper precautions.

 

[jayflash]

I had to e-mail SF as the reflector continues to fog once it gets hot.

 

[greenLED]

Do you have some silica-gel? Since you took it apart and reassembled the bezel, you may have to do it again. Place the disassembled bezel in an air-tight container with silica-gel. Leave overnight and then *quickly* assemble the bezel again. You might have to seal it somehow to prevent moisture from entering the bezel again.

 

[tequilathursday]

I also sent an email today. I wanted to call but was way too busy at work. I will see if I get a reply and if not I will call.
McGizmo's idea is a good one, and may eliminate some possibilities.
Tomorrow I will bring home my infared pyrometer and measure the hottest part of the head assembly after it 'foggs up'. Then I can set the oven to that temp (with the addition of an oven thermometer) and keep a watchfull eye on it. I'm sure my girlfriend will love that. We usually go out on wednesday night, and now I'll be cooking parts of my brand new flashlight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon8.gif lol. I may get dumped for this one.

 

[this_is_nascar]

From my experiences, the E2E/E2O/E1E bezel (they're all the same) are notorious for this "film on the reflector" issue if the light is used continously where it heats up to an extemely hot tempature. Every one I've ever done this to has exibited this "film-effect" on the reflector. The A2 does not suffer from this. The bezel can not handle the constant on of the MN03.

 

[tequilathursday]

I'm sorry GreenLED, I didn't see your post. I've had it appart a few times now, and I'm pretty certain its not a moisture problem. Also since the LA only floats below the head and is not sealed in any manner it is always going to be suseptable to ambient moisture just by changing the batteries. But i have nothing to loose and nothing else to do tonight anyway. Wait /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif I can do one better that the silica gel trick. I have an evacuation pump for automotive ac service in my truck. I'll get a glass jar with a secure lid, drill a hole for a tap and place all the parts minus batteries inside. suck it down to 29"mg or so and any moisture will be boiled away in a very short time. Heck I'll leave it on all night, in my dry air conditioned bedroom.( Girlfriend is definatly going to dump me) And reassembly it in the morning.
Awesome.. I gota go. I got a vaccum chamber to make. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Even if it's not a moisture problem all is not lost. Have you ever seen how big a marshmallow gets when ya suck the air out of it?

Rich