Freeplay torches

[Amerissis]

Does anyone have any strong views on Freeplay torches or, indeed, any wind up/solar powered torches?!!
I am doing some research on alternative powered consumer electronics and just can't work out which, if any, of the products are competitive with normal flashlights.
I would love to hear anyone's opinions/experiences of these products,
Thanks,
Amerissis

 

[xpitxbullx]

I love my freeplay torch. I just upgraded the incandescent bulb to an LED and replaced the rechargeable battery with a higher capacity one.

Free light, free music. You cant beat that.

Jeff

 

[Melchior]

http://www.freeplayenergy.com/index.php?section=products&subsection=indigo

It won't beat a Osram Golden Dragon, or most other Compact Flourescent Lanterns, but having an near inexaustable energy source nearby in nearly any conditions is gotta be worth something.

As always you can have lumens or run-time, not both. (unless you want a 10 pound lead-acid battery too)

If the batteries were Li-ION or Non-self discharging Ni-MH then it would be a 100% better product. As such all these rechargeable lights suffer from the same flaw:

Self-Discharge.

Which would not be so bad, but when a Ni-MH goes 100% dead, it becomes 'permanently' damaged and may not hold a charge. (sitting in a shelf for 6 months means = dead flashlight)

Still keeping it as a general-purpose daily use light makes more sense than using these as emergency backup lights.

Oh, and Nightstar CS supposedly the best shake lights. Personally I find my 1st rate knock-off 95% useless (unless I'm in a blackout with no batteries, THEN its OK).

Answer your question?

 

[Amerissis]

Yes- thanks very much! To come clean- What I am actually trying to do is write an independent research report on Freeplay the company itself. I am writing on it as part of a general research project into the social sector- companies that are profitable businesses and yet do good as well (Freeplay do lots of humanitarian work in Africa). So basically I have to analyse the prospects for the company, with the aim of getting information about the sector and alos, on publication, giving it a bit of much needed publicity.

I have been in touch with the company and they know I'm researching them but I obviously get a very biased view of all the Freeplay stuff from them. I have seen most of the products and I just can't see how they are going to sell well enough for the company to survive. I know nothing really about torches (especially compared to you guys on the forum) but they just seem pretty clunky and expensive. I get your point about an emergency but would enough people really buy a wind up torch when the mechanism might break, as opposed to the rechargeable battery system which, though flawed, is a much more known quantity? I'm just not convinced. ALso the torches are manufactured in China and, though the technology is all patented, surely if the goods did become popular it owuld be quite easy for a Chinese manufacturer to copy and produce a cheaper, if lower quality, item....

SO. Those are my problems!
Thanks for your help,
A

 

[xpitxbullx]

I leave mine on a window sill. It's always charged and ready. Of course it also has the backup batteries inside.

Jeff

 

[Sub_Umbra]

"Strong views?" Oh, yeah.

My biggest beef about 'crank-lights' is the marketing hype about their desireability as a piece of emergency gear. In spite of the fact that many companies and some individuals stress the emergency use angle as a justification, IMO crank-lights just don't cut it.

...N or Non-self discharging Ni-MH then it would be a 100% better product. As such all these rechargeable lights suffer from the same flaw:

Self-Discharge.

Which would not be so bad, but when a Ni-MH goes 100% dead, it becomes 'permanently' damaged and may not hold a charge. (sitting in a shelf for 6 months means = dead flashlight)...

Very good point.

That rules out ANY application where you may want to just stick a spare light away someplace for use in the future when all else fails.

In addition to that, the crank's shaft must penetrate the body of the light, exposing it's workings to the environment. Even if crank-lights were high-end lights there would be no perfect solution to this design weakness. Considering the low price point of most crank-lights it would seem safe to assume that very little effort goes into the seal.

The seal weakness would tend to be exacerbated by water or even salt air in marine environments -- so I wouldn't want to have to count on one to work on a sailboat. The seal would also seem to be a weak point in sandy or dusty places.

Having said all that I don't mean to imply that they are useless. Most of the wind up devices on the market were probably developed for places without electricity and where the locals often can't afford batteries. There are probably many places where these products may give long service when used every day and have the potential to save their users lots of money on batteries and enhance their quality of life.

I just don't like them touted for emergency use as they seriously lack some of the necessary qualities for that discription.

 

[mchlwise]

I just don't like them touted for emergency use as they seriously lack some of the necessary qualities for that discription.

Hmmmm...

I'm not sure that I completely agree with that.

I understand your points about reliability, and a crank light is CERTAINLY not the most reliable option.

However, most people don't keep and store multiple flashlights with multiple batteries in clean dry places like a lot of us do. Most people have some cheap crap $2 WalMart special incandescent sitting in a drawer some place with leaked and fully discharged batteries that will be useless in an emergency.

Crank or even shake lights, even with their sometimes serious shortcomings, will be much more reliable in an emergency than the WalMart special with leaky alkalines in it. If someone doesn't have the desire or discipline to regularly rotate cells in a good flashlight, it seems to me like a crank or shake light in a safe place could be invaluable in an emergency.

As far as the Freeplay company goes: They've been around for years already. I've got a solar powered/crank radio that I bought from them YEARS (like over 6) ago, which I still use almost every time I'm out working in the yard.

As far as crank/solar lights over traditional rechargeables goes: If a rechargeable is discharged from use or neglect, and the power goes out, you're out of luck and in the dark. A solar can be left where it will continually be charged (as previoiusly posted) and a crank can be cranked up. Personally, I can see a tremendous demand for both or either, and hope to be buying one shortly. I'm just shopping for one that will charge my cell phone also.

 

[blahblahblah]

Does anyone have any strong views on Freeplay torches or, indeed, any wind up/solar powered torches?!!
I am doing some research on alternative powered consumer electronics and just can't work out which, if any, of the products are competitive with normal flashlights.
I would love to hear anyone's opinions/experiences of these products,
Thanks,
Amerissis

My strong view of all the crank/shake/wind/etc lights:
- minimal light output
- not recommended in an emergency
- lack of quality/durability
- not good in a survival situation due to expending energy for light
- many scams on shake light products w/ batteries

If you want an alternative powered consumer electronics device... Go buy a regular consumer product that takes rechargeable batteries. Hook up the charger to a solar panel. Flexible solar panels by uni-solar, brunton, and ICP are great options. 12v automotive chargers are also good in these situations because you don't have to convert DC to AC and then back to DC.

FYI: For a real emergency, use a lithium primary cell with a 10 year shelf life. I have 100+ lithium primaries (stored in metal containers). I also have a generator and automobiles for supplying power.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

Hmmmm...

I'm not sure that I completely agree with that [highlight](inappropriateness of crank-lights for emergency use)[/highlight]...

...As far as the Freeplay company goes: They've been around for years already. I've got a solar powered/crank radio that I bought from them YEARS (like over 6) ago, which I still use almost every time I'm out working in the yard....

Highlighted text above added to quote for clarity -- Sub

That's why it still works. There have been other threads covering this same ground. CPFers have posted that their new crank-lights died after six months of storage.

Storage is very often an important consideration in the selection of emergency gear. In this regard a crank-light can in no way be compared to a high quality shake light like the Nightstar.

• The Nightstar may be exposed to hazardous atmospheres and corrosive chemicals for extended periods of time with little or no effect on reliability.
• The Nightstar has no rechargeable cell to die of neglect. The Nightstar's LED is driven by a capacitor and may sit idle indefinitely without degradation -- always ready to spring back to life.
• The Nightstar may thrown into a damp rope locker or stored in any number careless ways that would insure the death of any crank light in short order. The Nightstar will still work after years of that kind of abuse.

I'm not talking about extreme activities. I'm talking about things that lots of ordinary people do where they want to lay up a light for an emergency at some point in the future. Like going on a sailboat in either fresh or salt water, or going on any kind of fishing boat in fresh or salt water. Or a light to throw into the trunk of your car.

As mentioned, people don't always rotate batteries in emergency lights. Emergency gear very often is overlooked and forgotten until it is needed. It may be kicked around, it may get wet. It may have things thrown on top of it for years. That is the nature of the beast.

Crank-lights can not compare to high quality shake-lights in any situation where the light must be stored for an emergency at some point in the future.

They were designed to save money when used on an everyday basis and that is where their utility lies. The 'emergency' use claims are just sales hype.

 

[mchlwise]

That's why it still works. There have been other threads covering this same ground. CPFers have posted that their new crank-lights died after six months of storage.

I guess the thing to think about as far as reliability in an emergency, or long-term "being there for you" in a non-emergency is the mechanism for storing the generated energy.

My Freeplay still works not because of frequent usage, but because there's no electronic storage device. No battery, capacitor, nothing. With the solar panel - If it's in the sun, it works. If it's in the shade, it doesn't. The crank is simply a mechanical storage device, which winds up a spring which then goes through a series of gears to spin the electric generator which then powers up the radio (sun or otherwise). When the tension on the spring is expended, the music stops.

If a cranklight uses a means of storing energy which is not suited for long-term neglect (such as NIMH), and ignoring it for an extended period of time will ruin it, then I agree it's NOT AT ALL suited for an emergency.

Nightstars sound like great lights, certainly suitable for an emergency from your description. I actually know nothing about them, but will have to do some research.

 

[xpitxbullx]

My freeplay works great and I only play with it once or twice a year. Matter of fact, it's time to play with it again.

The light output is much greater than a shake light so it really shouldn't be compared to one.

With the amount of batteries and flashlights that I have (most of us have a pretty big collection/selection), it probably wouldn't be the first light I would use in an emergency but sooner or later it could find itself useful.

Jeff

 

[Sub_Umbra]

You're sure that there's no battery? I've never heard of a Freeplay without a battery.

If that is the case there would be one less thing to fail.

I could have sworn I read in the instruction sheet for one to be sure to crank it up enough to be sure the battery was fully charged before turning it on the first time to avoid damaging the battery.

From promo copy:
"...The Freeplay Ranger will give 25 hours playtime, depending on volume, when fully charged."

Promo for the Freeplay Summit:
"...Performance:
Full charge: 20 hours
30 second wind: 30 minutes..."

In any event, it's a somewhat moot point. The thread is about torches. While it is still useful to have a radio that only runs on solar power, a solar powered flashlight is pretty useless when the battery has died for the last time and it will only work in the sunshine.

 

[mchlwise]

You're sure that there's no battery? I've never heard of a Freeplay without a battery.

Like I said, I got it a LOOOOONG time ago.

Maybe I'll take a picture tonight.

My point about referring to the radio, though, was that there are mechanisms which can storing/generate energy that last indefinitely. If someone builds a flashlight with such a mechanism, that would be good to have around... in case of an emergency.

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

hello mchlwise

you not talking about the baygen freeplay radio are you the one with AM,MW and SW.

I have one, I have it connected to an solar panel during the day so i don't have to wind it up.

I have never heard of a purely clockwork flashlight with no battery.

I would be very interested to see a picture of it.

ps. I have the old russian dynamo flashlight, that you have to keep pressing the trigger for it to work, no battery`s

regards.

I guess the thing to think about as far as reliability in an emergency, or long-term "being there for you" in a non-emergency is the mechanism for storing the generated energy.

My Freeplay still works not because of frequent usage, but because there's no electronic storage device. No battery, capacitor, nothing. With the solar panel - If it's in the sun, it works. If it's in the shade, it doesn't. The crank is simply a mechanical storage device, which winds up a spring which then goes through a series of gears to spin the electric generator which then powers up the radio (sun or otherwise). When the tension on the spring is expended, the music stops.

If a cranklight uses a means of storing energy which is not suited for long-term neglect (such as NIMH), and ignoring it for an extended period of time will ruin it, then I agree it's NOT AT ALL suited for an emergency.

Nightstars sound like great lights, certainly suitable for an emergency from your description. I actually know nothing about them, but will have to do some research.

 

[mchlwise]

you not talking about the baygen freeplay radio are you the one with AM,MW and SW.
I have never heard of a purely clockwork flashlight with no battery.

I would be very interested to see a picture of it.

I don't think so. It's an AM/FM, radio only, no battery. Says "freeplay" on it.

I'll take some pics tonight.

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

this is the radio I have

it`s the original baygen freeplay radio.

regards.

 

[xpitxbullx]

The one I was talking about can be found here.

Jeff

 

[mchlwise]

I guess I never realized my clockworks/solar Freeplay radio was such a novelty. I'll have to take better care of it.

Here's an overall shot of it:

Definitely a Freeplay:

From the top:
You can see most of the gearing. The generator or whatever (the part that turns cranking into electricity) is the little metal thing behind the large white gear. Motion goes from the large black gear on the right, to the white gear, to the black gear on the left, then via a rubber belt (which you can see if you look close enough) to the pulley of the generator.

On the top/back is the solar panel, and the crank is on the back. Here you can start to see one of the coils (the metal thing on the white spool to the right of the crank):

From the bottom you can get a better view of the two coils. The crank winds the coil on the left from the one on the right, with a ratcheting action, and the coil on the right slowly winds it back as it spins the gears. You can also see the electronics of the radio board in this picture, and clearly also that there are NO BATTERIES! :

A shot of the side (showing a coil, a gear, and the speaker):

And a shot of the other side:

Oh, and it does have a DC jack (which I had forgotten about), but again, no electronic means of storing energy!

Now, if I could find a similar clockworks device that powers an LED, I'd be all over it. :naughty:

Enjoy!

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

seen the same radio on amazon, no longer avaliable, but gives model number.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004Z3LP/?tag=cpf0b6-20

regards.