Gransee: Share Arc circuit schematics?

[Steelwolf]

I know this is asking a lot and I would understand if you turn me down. It's just that on the other threads, we're cracking our heads trying to come up with a simple circuit to boost the 1.5V battery to light a single LED as brightly as possible, and here you already have the answer in the Arc.

So if you are willing, can you share the schematics, component nomenclature and component values with us? And if you're not willing, then I would like to thank you anyway for reading this and providing us with a ready built solution in the Arc.

 

[Gransee]

Let me think about this one for a while.

Nice circuit btw (reffering to your picture).

Peter

 

[Go Go Gadget Flashlight]

Peter, I almost asked this a while back before deciding to order one.

If you have a patent on it, then no one should be able to use it for profit. If you don't have a patent, I could see how that would be a problem...

I think all we want to do is tinker with it. Obviously, very few individuals have the means to build tiny SMD circuits.

We'd just have to build with full size components, so "stealing" your market is not a worry.

My 2 cents...

 

[Brock]

I don't think the problem isn't us tinkers, but if some other manufactures frequent this board they could then expand on what the Arc is. So I can understand if we don't get exact specs. We all have to remember we aren't the only people reading all this, I would be willing to be most LED manufactures lurk here.

Brock

 

[Steelwolf]

Yep. I just came to the same conclusion as Brock after having slept on it the whole night. And although I'm sure if the someone really wanted steal the market, he could try reverse engineering, let's not make it any easier for ripoff artists. Please don't publish your schematics. At least not until the patents run out, or you have made your money and want to move on, or the market is saturated with wannebes or... maybe never.

I don't mind in the least and I admire that you were even considering sharing your knowledge with us.

 

[Go Go Gadget Flashlight]

And then there's the whole "publicly" thing...

Don't post it here. Maybe direct emails to those interested? If you don't know them, don't send it to them.

Make them bound to a nondisclosure agreement before releasing the schematic...

I still wanna see it.

You have my name and address on file, as with other ARClight customers.

 

[Gransee]

At this time I should not talk about the design.

I have a fiduciary responsibility to the company, it stakeholders and it current and future customers to protect the intellectual assets that allow us to bring innovative products to market.

Granted, the designs can be very easily copied. Anyone with a few tools in their garage can hack into one of these. Besides that, technology is always improving so other will come out with even better designs eventually.

But I still must at least try to slow down the competition. It looks like Telephony, Steelwolf, Gadget and others already came to this conclusion.

If you do hack into the Arc and build your own circuit from it, I can only ask please do not post any details or photos for the public least they fall into the wrong hands. Patents and NDA's are only as good as the money behind the lawyers that litigate them, I would rather spend that money on R&D for new flashlights.

I do encourage your further experimentation with circuits like the one above. For example, switching to SMD's would really reduce the size (naturally). Also, switch out different parts and see what kind of difference it makes. We spent over 6 months on a heavy schedule to get to the circuit we have today and it still is not perfect. I have no doubt one of you will eventually produce a circuit that makes the Arc circuit look boring.

Thanks for your support.

Here's hoping we can continue to bring more cool flashlight ideas to market.

Peter Gransee

 

[Steelwolf]

That might seem like a good idea on the surface, but any big time manufacturer might just decide to place a "private" order, make himself out to be just like one of us, then rip off the circuit. A non-disclosure agreement is kind of iffy. Usually, legal documents only have bite if you have the money to go through the whole rigmarole.

This is a tough line to toe, but I think that we'll have to be content with messing around with circuits on our own or playing with the Arc, but never be shown the schematics of the Arc. The possible cost to Peter's investment would potentially be too great.

However, I still want to be first in line if/when he decides to reveal the circuit schematics.

BTW, Peter, the name is Wolf... Steelwolf

 

[The_LED_Museum]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steelwolf:
That might seem like a good idea on the surface, but any big time manufacturer might just decide to place a "private" order, make himself out to be just like one of us, then rip off the circuit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's very likely that several manufacturers have already bought Arcs, probably so they can butcher them and see what makes them tick, not to hang on their car keys or stuff in the coin pocket of their pants.

Not necessarily to "rip off" the circuit, but to use it as a foundation upon which to build a new, brighter circuit.

I guess it's only fair then, when a new flashlight comes out that is potential competition for the Arc, that Peter buys one and hacks that puppy open as quickly as he can.

 

[Badbeams3]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
It's very likely that several manufacturers have already bought Arcs, probably so they can butcher them and see what makes them tick, not to hang on their car keys or stuff in the coin pocket of their pants.

Not necessarily to "rip off" the circuit, but to use it as a foundation upon which to build a new, brighter circuit.

I guess it's only fair then, when a new flashlight comes out that is potential competition for the Arc, that Peter buys one and hacks that puppy open as quickly as he can.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agee with everything Telephony said except one...it is not just very likely that manufactures have, are and will tear apart the Arc...it is 100% certain...you can bet your last nickel on that.

I wonder if companies will apply for patents even if they know there is no hope of getting it...it might act as a deturerant and slow others down...the famous "patent pending" we see so often...much more rare to actually see "patented"

 

[hank]

A month or so ago I came across a publicly available description for something equivalent -- found a student project page for building a LED light voltage controller - it's at the University of Ulm (Germany? sorry, don't have the reference handy). The students at the school could get the circuit board premade but it didn't look hard to create and the parts list was inexpensive -- the design was to drop into a min-Maglight or equivalent, replacing the incandescent bulb with the LED and boosting the voltage. The basic electronics part is available, US source, cost about $3.50. Perhaps someone can turn that page up with some searching, I was just looking using Google.

 

[Steelwolf]

Hank, Is the spelling for the name of the university correct? ie "Ulm" I will have to look this one up. If anyone finds the URL, please post it up on this thread.

BTW, I had to open up one of my CMG Infinities to repair. (The people from CMG were very kind and sent me a replacement, without requiring me to return the defective unit, the minute I told them the original wasn't working. So I decided to take a look inside the original and see if I could fix the problem.) The problem turned out to be the coil which had popped out of it's soldered connections. I rewired the coil and soldered it back on and took several pictures while it was exposed. It appears that the Infinity uses a twin transistor design with a coil. Probably similar to this other circuit that Gadget put up.

I would like to post the photos because they are interesting, but I don't know how happy the people at CMG will be. Besides, I can't host the photos anymore. If anyone wants them, please email me. Preferably someone who is already hosting a review page. Craig? Brock?

 

[Brock]

I will let Craig post them if he wants to. Since he sells the CMG stuff he would know whether it would be ok or not.

Brock

 

[The_LED_Museum]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
I will let Craig post them if he wants to. Since he sells the CMG stuff he would know whether it would be ok or not.

Brock<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think CMG would appreciate me posting nude pictures of their circuitry on my website..

Patent stuff, ya know.

 

[Steelwolf]

Craig and Brock, I hear you. Too bad. Went to quite some trouble to document and I so wanted to show the photos.

KenBar, thanks for the links. Too bad they still use an IC chip in their project. What is the world coming to that a bunch of university students can't make a simple circuit without resorting to manufactured ICs??

 

[remuen]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hank:
A month or so ago I came across a publicly available description for something equivalent -- found a student project page for building a LED light voltage controller - it's at the University of Ulm (Germany? sorry, don't have the reference handy). The students at the school could get the circuit board premade but it didn't look hard to create and the parts list was inexpensive -- the design was to drop into a min-Maglight or equivalent, replacing the incandescent bulb with the LED and boosting the voltage. The basic electronics part is available, US source, cost about $3.50. Perhaps someone can turn that page up with some searching, I was just looking using Google.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are still interested in this link here it is: http://mikro.e-technik.uni-ulm.de/persons/lares/LED_flashlight.html#V2. It looks very interesting to me.

I'm very interested in such a step up converter. Mainly interesting is a circuit to use 1 - 10 LED's on 2 AA/2 C or 2 D batteries. It would also be interesting to have the smaller one for 1 - 4 LED's on a single AA battery.

Even I studied electronics about 25 years ago I am now completly out of practice. So my question: Can one of you sell me a few of such circuits. It should be as small as possible because I wnat to use them also in Minimags like shown in this links. Or maybe Peter Gransee will sell us his complete ARC AAA circuit (without the housing and LED) - probably sealed in epoxy or whatelse to protect it a little against reverse engineering ?

 

[jeff1500]

This is a method for soldering small surface mount ICs.
http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm

Here's a little tiny MAX1701 IC with a schematic
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm?qv_pk=1830

Here's a larger MAX757 IC that's easier to make connections.
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm?qv_pk=1167


I'm in the process of hooking up the MAX757 just to experiment.

 

[remuen]

Reading the specs the little tiny MAX1701 IC seems more interesting to me ....
But I do have the same problem as before because where shall i get a pcb which fits in the head of Minimag and some other question more. Why does not one of you much more experienced guys produce such a unit for us poor others?

 

[jeff1500]

A small PCB is a tough issue for me too. Over in the long Zetex thread there is a story about making PCBs with some kind of printer/copy machine transfer method.

Mag lights are a nice package, But I'm not there yet either so I'm going to try the larger parts and make my own package.

Maybe wood. Maybe something like violin construction. Maybe about the shape of a computer mouse or a TV remote control.