Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/Torch

[ViReN]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

Hi All,
I Beg to differ from some of the people. From My POV (Point of View), I think for a Guiness Book Record, we should set some standadrs. A True flashlight should have following

1) Standard burntime of 1 Hour (this is a Minimum Requirement) see **** Below
2) Maximum & Minimum Lumens during that Hour
3) Total Light Output (Lumens * Hours)
4) Weighing less than 1 or 10 KG ... (see Silverster S. Note below)
There should be various Categories based on Method of Light Generation
1) Electronic (Lasers & LED)
2) Hot Filament (Most of Incand's.. including Halogens, Xenons, Kriptons... etc..)
3) Flourescence (CCFL, CFL, EL, etc...)
4) Vapour (Mercury, Sodium etc...)
5) Arc Lamps (Metal Halides etc...)
6) Other Non Conventional Methods of light Generation

There should also be catetgory for Battery Type Used
1) Miniature Battries (Button Cells, Coin Cells etc...)Alkaline, Silver Oxide, Lithium Chemistries
2) Standard Batteries (Like AAA, AA, C, D) Including Non Rechargable Lithium Sizes & Rechargables
3) Lithium Batteries (CR123, CR2) Including Rechargables; Protected & Unprotected Li-ions
4) Lead Acid SLS's etc
5) Other Non Conventional Energy Sources (Like Mini Petrol Engines etc...)

In Addition to above mentioned things, the Hand Held Flashlight should be defined as a "Self Contained Integrated unit which has a Light Source & a Power Source. Light Source may be used along with an Integrated Optics for diversion / collimating light towards a direction"

In Some Cases, like Headlamps & Some Arc Lamps, we do have a seperate power source (these should be considered seperately) & should not be clubed as in above categories.

**** ... This is because, (i am sorry Mr Bulk, I beg to differ from your statement about "true Bright" light, please dont feel offended)... A Light can be VERY VERY BRIGHT (Max Lux Reading) for just a couple of minutes... or even seconds or microseconds (in older days, that used to be the case) thats why it was called as FLASHLIGHT.. but today with advent of new technologies & other gizmossss... I think we need to redefine some things. The defination of Flashlight itself /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif We need to device new Units for Light Measurement instead of just Lumens output. an Incand bulb.. will have 1000 Lumens .... & it throws 360 Degrees !!!... what will it be of any use ? (other than over all Area Lighting) consider same 1000 Lumens thrown at a single point (like Laser)... these things have a very specific purpose. Due to this we also need to have a category for classifying following
1) Longest Throw
2) Beam Angle & Side Spill Angle
3) Clubed with above 2 is total Lumens Output

Weight of flashlight should also be considered as parameter lets standardize it to 1 KG (maximum Limit) Everyone here is not Silverster Stalone to hold a 100 KG Flashlight in ONE hand !!!


Oh I almost forgot... there should also be a category Most Gizmotic Flashlight... like all those Menu & Configuratibility features brightness & Darkness settings... flashling & strobe settings... moon & mooner modes... automatic lockings of switches & what not /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ....

P/G/MAG LIGHTS ARE BANNED, THEY ARE NO LONGER FLASHLIGHTS (i dont know what to call em... sorry)(Anything other than that is a Flashlight though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) ... I hope you guys understand. I am sorry folks, those who have modded P/GAGLIGHTS, Please stay away... we are talking Orignality here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Other than G/PAGLIGHT... all modders are Welcome /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif including sandwitches... bad boys.. good boys..max boys.. flexes... including n.. u .. p ... etc /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif (ok.. thats it, my knowledge is really limited in world of modding)

Spotlights etc will not fall in this category...

Thanks & Regards,
ViReN

 

[WirlNet]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

That's a lot of subcatagories Viren. I think we are going to be lucky to actually manage the standards for 3 or 4 lights catagories. As an analogy, there are not 20 catagories for "world's tallest man". Now, among the CPF wizards, that many ways to define a light are fine, but I am not so sure with the general public.

In general, I agree with your comments that a "flashlight" has a self contained battery, lamp, and power source, but I think you would find that the "volume limit" and "water resistance sufficient to measure the volume" limit above would rapidly force people to a single container anyway.

I am glad you have noted that the real challenge here is going to be creating the standards. Creating competitive lights might actually be easier, and certainly more fun.

It would be incredibly biased of us if we limited participation of a person, company or product just because we did not like some personal aspect of them.

 

[Lunal_Tic]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

How about keeping it simple.

Define "flashlight" as portable light source: a small hand-held lamp usually powered by batteries (Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2004. © 1993-2003)

Then specify that it must fit in grandma's bedside drawer and she must be the one that holds/uses it for the desired time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

After that pick your poison: lux, lumen, candlepower whatever.

 

[mobile1]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

Ok guys... thanks for the links and excellent comments... I will run this by the guiness book guy and see what his input is regarding this: I'll get back to you once I hear his feedback.

 

[Quazar]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

I think there should be seperate categories for production and custom lights.

 

[Crosman451]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

I can't wait!! Bragging rights aside, it would be fun and intresting just to see flashlights of this magnitude competing for this title. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

 

[mobile1]

Update

Ok had an email exchange with Guiness.

The requirements they would suggest are:
---email exerpt---
My initial thoughts are to limit the maximum weight (including batteries), the minimum runtime and the type of power supply. Obviously the batteries must be commercially available dry cells. We don't really want people incorporating small plutonium power plants into these! Also the flashlight itself must be commercially available and unmodified.
-end----------------

Taking these and the suggestions in this thread into consideration, my suggestion would be:

1) Maximum Weight: Any ideas?

2) Runtime: 1h (I think everyone agrees on that one so far)

3) Batteries: commercially available dry cells

4) Brightness measurement: brightest spot 1m distance (the lowest measurement during 1h runtime - requires regulation)

(This means now complicated dome measurments. I sugggest this measurement because perceived brightness is basically how much light can a flashlight project on one spot. The perceived brightness is the brightness of this one spot.
If we would require precise dome (light output) measurement, I think this would make it too complicated to compare lights.

5) Ranking: The title is being awarded to the light that is the brightest in relation to it's size (cubic centimeter of outer hull). This means the brightness measurement is divided by the square inches/centimeters. The flashlight with the highest number gets the Guiness-Book-World-Record Title.

6) Commercially available: The flashlight holds the record as long as any person has the ability to buy this light assembled and ready to go. A light is losing the title when it isn't commercially available anymore.

So lets imagine what a winner light could look like: Could be a larger incandescent light, or a smaller LED light.

I would prefer to have a weight rating to focus more on smaller lights (Max Mag2D maybe 3D size).

Ok let me know what you think about it...


PS: oh and Crosman I see what I can do to get the guys maybe open a category with non-commercially available-all out lights, maybe runtime 10min.... I think a shootout of insanely bright would be fun - do you have any definitions for such a category?

 

[Crosman451]

Re: Update

How about "Unlimited Class" anything goes!! Or "Custom Modified Class" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleye11.gif

 

[cheesehead]

Re: Update

Commercially available,

Maxabeam-it has the tighest focus and thus, highest CP output, period. Megaray may be close, but it weighs a ton.

Then any of the 35 watt car HIDs, such as X990, KumKang, blah blah, etc will have the best lumen output and runtime.

Incandescents can't compete. Even the 11 lbs Thor with a 100 watt bulb runs only 45 minutes tops and isn't as bright as the 35 watt HIDs. Eh, it seems like Guiness would like to keep it simple, so IMHO, the Maxabeam would be the winner. Can't beat a true 7 million CP beam.

cheese

 

[NewBie]

Re: Update

Some of the older chemical flashlights might be in the running...

 

[cheesehead]

Re: Update

Hey, you have to say more than that (sounds like you are holding back)! Eh, for overall output, I guess the propane lights would also be contenders (well WINNERS!), and although they are very inefficient, but they have a power source with the energy of a small bomb, so, good point.

 

[sween1911]

Re: Update

I think for brightness measurement, it should be "brightest and still fit the criteria for flashlight" with whatever weight and size and minimum burntime is in our definition of flashlight. Trying to calculate brightness/weight ratio would become splitting hairs. If it fits in the category or class that defines min/max weight/burntime whatever, then it's just a brightness measurement at a predetermined distance for a predetermined length of time.

(Potentially, there could be a category for efficiency based on weight to brightness. Of course, there could also be a "voltage(or wattage or amperage or whatever) to brightness" category)

But for the title of "brightest flashlight", it should be two things:

1) a flashlight (fits whatever criteria for flashlight we come up with.)

2) the brightest (based on some light measurement at predetermined distance in a predetermined condition for a predetermined amount of time)

my .02

 

[HarryN]

Re: Update

I am in favor of "classifications A, B, C" but I think the criteria should be volume based, not weight. Lumens per cm3 - too complicated.

I am not in favor of restricting it to commercial and unmodified - what is the point ?

Power source - That is the point of creativity. If you want to ban nuclear, fine, but why all the restrictions. If propane is better, or a mini fuel cell, etc, why limit it?

Brighness measurements at 1 meter in a dome metrology tool are almost useless for the goal. They will tell us Lumens, but certainly would not make the end result any more valuable to anyone. The pont of a light "design" is for a task. "A" size lights are for lighting up "A" size areas and distances. Same with "B" and "C" catagories.

Any light that holds the "large catagory" GBWR should be pretty impressive when lighting up a 10 meter dia. circle at 100 meters or it is useless.

OK, one more area of comment - The output measurement should be the integrated average light output over the one hour period, not the minimum. If the light falls below "1" Lumen for some part of the test, it gets a "1" for that time period in the integrated average.

This is the challenge of committees, hard to bring them together to one result.

 

[mobile1]

Re: Update

Great that we finally get some discussion going here... I already thought I can come up with the definition myself.

Well the dry cell requirement and commercially available is not up for discussion - they just said thats what it needs to be.
I can kind of understand it as well, their book is read by families and kids etc... I think having records in their that were achieved with products that can commercially be bought is much more exciting then reading about a gas-powered light that was bright for an hour.

Average vs minimum light output - well here again, my vote would be minimum as its much more usefull if you have a regulated light vs a non regulated....

Right now, lets just bring up the different options we all should vote about:

 

[HarryN]

Re: Update

[ QUOTE ]
mobile1 said:
Great that we finally get some discussion going here... I already thought I can come up with the definition myself.

Well the dry cell requirement and commercially available is not up for discussion - they just said thats what it needs to be.
I can kind of understand it as well, their book is read by families and kids etc... I think having records in their that were achieved with products that can commercially be bought is much more exciting then reading about a gas-powered light that was bright for an hour.
___________________
HarryN - Hi - I read the note from GBWR a little differently, but my nature is to push the envelope a little. I hate to see us eliminate Pb-acid batteries right from the start. We will need to be careful here to define a "dry cell", as these are really "paste" cells. Perhaps we can define "dry cell" as "a chemical cell which can rotated in any direction without leakage while in use".

I have seen some nanoscale generators being developed at universities which could "burn" propane and put out enough electricity for a flashlight, also fuel cells. Really hate to take these off the list as these might be real contenders in the future.
____________

Average vs minimum light output - well here again, my vote would be minimum as its much more usefull if you have a regulated light vs a non regulated....

_____________________________
HarryN
I agree in general that we should promote regulated lights, but regulation is in the eyes of the beholder. The 1 hour time period will actually eliminate many lights that might otherwise be strong contenders. If a light happens to run perfectly for 58 minutes and 47 seconds, and then goes dead, I would prefer to not rate the light as a (0), but instead to count the last minute as (1) lumen or Lux, (whatever we are using), and use the integrated average output over time.

The same is true for lights where regulation is imperfect - even with 50 % drop off during a run.

The very nature of battery packs and how they operate will drive record seekers toward reasonable regulation. I am probably wrong, but I have never heard of a battery pack that provides more KWH when drawn down quickly then when drawn down slowly.
_________________________

Right now, lets just bring up the different options we all should vote about:

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[HarryN]

Re: Update

[ QUOTE ]
mobile1 said:
Ok had an email exchange with Guiness.

The requirements they would suggest are:
---email exerpt---
My initial thoughts are to limit the maximum weight (including batteries), the minimum runtime and the type of power supply. Obviously the batteries must be commercially available dry cells. We don't really want people incorporating small plutonium power plants into these! Also the flashlight itself must be commercially available and unmodified.
-end----------------

Taking these and the suggestions in this thread into consideration, my suggestion would be:

1) Maximum Weight: Any ideas?

________________

HarryN - yes - use volume, not weight.

________________________


2) Runtime: 1h (I think everyone agrees on that one so far)

__________________
HarryN - Proposed Definition of runtime and brightness measurement:

Within 10 minutes prior to, and 10 minutes after the test, the ambient light will be measured, and this value subracted from the light measurements taken during the test.

The light output will be measured 2 x per second for the duration of the test, in a randomized timing pattern.

If the measurement is less than 1 (unit), then the measurement will be assumed to be 1.0 (unit)

The measurement will be taken at 9 locations, which represent an average reading over a disc 10 meters in diameter, at a distance of 100 meters. The measurement locations will be :

a) 1 point in the center
b) 4 each points spaced 90 degrees at a distance 2.5 meters from the center of the disc.
C) 4 each points spaced 90 degrees at a distance 5 meters from the center of the disc.

The Total average value of the light measurement will be the arithmatic mean of the 7200 time periods x the 9 measurement points for a total of 64,800 data measurements.

Metrology
- Need to define a standardized sensor and a NIST traceable method of calibrating it. This is not so trivial, as the lights will clearly not have the same wavelength distribution.

__________________________
3) Batteries: commercially available dry cells

_________________

HarryN proposal

Dry cell definition. A cell is considered a "dry cell" if it does not allow escape of a fluid when turned in any direction, including upsidedown, either before or during use, regardless of its construction or materials used.

Commercially available Dry Cell Definition: A "Dry Cell" is considered "Commercially available" if it has been sold to at least three customrs prior to the GBWR test, and is available to be sold to "qualified users" even if there are restrictions on its availability to the general public.
_______

4) Brightness measurement: brightest spot 1m distance (the lowest measurement during 1h runtime - requires regulation)

(This means now complicated dome measurments. I sugggest this measurement because perceived brightness is basically how much light can a flashlight project on one spot. The perceived brightness is the brightness of this one spot.
If we would require precise dome (light output) measurement, I think this would make it too complicated to compare lights.

5) Ranking: The title is being awarded to the light that is the brightest in relation to it's size (cubic centimeter of outer hull). This means the brightness measurement is divided by the square inches/centimeters. The flashlight with the highest number gets the Guiness-Book-World-Record Title.

__________________________

HarryN - If we can only submit one "class", then I propose one based on the volume of a 6 D mag. This is about as large as one can call a "flashlight". Anything much larger might be considered something else.

I would still like to see 3 catagories, and call the 6 D size the "mid size" light"

Small to me is more like a 1 or 2 x 123, but to me, this light should be measured at 10 meters, not 100 meters.
_____________________________

6) Commercially available: The flashlight holds the record as long as any person has the ability to buy this light assembled and ready to go. A light is losing the title when it isn't commercially available anymore.

__________________

HarryN

I would apply the same definition of "commercial" to the light as noted above on the batteries.

_____________________


So lets imagine what a winner light could look like: Could be a larger incandescent light, or a smaller LED light.

I would prefer to have a weight rating to focus more on smaller lights (Max Mag2D maybe 3D size).

Ok let me know what you think about it...


PS: oh and Crosman I see what I can do to get the guys maybe open a category with non-commercially available-all out lights, maybe runtime 10min.... I think a shootout of insanely bright would be fun - do you have any definitions for such a category?

[/ QUOTE ]

______________

HarryN - ok, I am really trying to be helpful, but this is really your thread and the GBWR is your deal. My ideas are on the table for the darts - come on everyone, I know that none of like to write up rules around here, but defining the goal will be harder than building the light.

I would really like Ginsing and the other moderators to make some more comments on the catagories.

BTW, the reason for the randomized light measurement timing is to avoid having someone "flash" the sensor every 1/2 second.

 

[CroMAGnet]

Re: Update

How about no flashing. --- Before we had LED flashights, I am guessing we had much larger bulkier incan lights? If that is the case then what happens when we get a new form of light yet to be invented? Might want to keep that in mind. I'm still a newb, so what do I know.

Anyway, I think GBWR is probably motivated by potential advertising revenue with 'commercial' flashlight catagories. Somehow, someway. I prefer it to be any 'flashlight'.

And define commercially available. Like the lights sold on CPF? Just list them available through one of our CPF community dealers?

I don't think they should limit it to commercial lights because if it's a world record then it's a world record. Who cares what the most powerful 'commercial' light is... That's just good advertising for a flashlight company. It just takes money. Do you think GM could build the FASTEST car in the world? YOU BET! they have a LOT of money, and if it made sense to build or win, they would do it. Just think if M*glyte decided they wanted to win. (it could actually help further flashlight technology if the GBWR was coveted.)

We just need to have a tight definition of a flashlight. Or as the English say... Torch. (not to mislead anyone with 'flash')

I like the idea of incand catagory, LED catagory, HID etc
I like the idea of a weight limit (maybe not a size limit?)
I like the idea of 1-hour (or 1/2 hour) benchmark to measure total lumen output.

Can you see it now. All the modders make their lights and line up at yearly national GBWR flashlight events to point their light in a box and find out how their light stacks up to the competition for the world prize! Or how about highschool students the way they compete for oil company sponsored solar powered vehicles or robots these days. College students... I digress...

I think that new flashlight our boys are using over in IRAQ might be a contender or maybe a good benchmark because that is probably a good example of what can be done when you have the money to do it.

Sorry for the rant but I've been lurking on this thread since day one and hope that we can help make an Inspirational category for people everywhere.

Just my too-senz /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[HarryN]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

Hi, after thinking about it some more, I have decided to agree with the catagories based on mass instead of my proposed volume basis.

I have a few suggestions for mass (weight) catagories - with the tested light having to weigh in at less than or equal to the class:
- 125 grams
- 250 grams
- 500 grams
- 1 kg
- 10 kg

Each light would be tested at 0.1 meters x weight class, so a 250 gram light would be tested at 0.1 x 250 = 25 meters. A 10,000 gram light (10 kg) would be tested at 1,000 meters, a reasonable distance for a light in this class.

For the test illumination object, I would like us to use a standard disc in the 3 - 5 meter diameter and some kind of averaging technique over the area. This is not so far from how many flashlights are focused now.

Please keep us up to date on responses from the GBWR people.

Thanks HarryN

 

[mobile1]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

Well I dont want to botter the GBWR people too much. My idea is that we come up with a definition then pass it on to the GBWR people. So we should try to agree on some rules.
Regarding commercially available, I think if you make the light available like many do here on cpf, I think this qualifies as commercially available. I don't think they get any revenues out of advertising. The way they finance themselves is by selling their book and through new records (it costs a couple hundred $ to register a record).
Maybe we should discuss this topic in a bay area meeting - then post the results again here so people can review them.

 

[CroMAGnet]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

Good idea on a face-to-face at the next bayarea CPF get together.