Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/Torch

[paulr]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

The 1 hour minimum runtime is a bogus restriction that eliminates lots of perfectly legitimate flashlights like the Surefire M6 HOLA. If there has to be a minimum runtime spec, it should be something like 5 minutes, not 1 hour.

 

[CroMAGnet]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

 

[andrewwynn]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

i agree with paul's comment.. i have some killer lights that output awesome light for 20 minutes, and that's more than adequate for real serious use.

 

[HarryN]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

Ok - here is my take on the 1 hour target. Any amount of run time will be an abitrary number, regardless of whether the number is 5 seconds or 5 hours.

The weight classes offer a way to deal with the run time issue. Basically, if you want to build a light for a particular weight class, you would need to have a package of light + batteries that runs the required minimum time. (whatever is chosen) From my perspective, there is plenty of room in the proposed weight classes (basically serial fractions of 1 Kg) to allow minor edits to lights and battery packs as needed for the required run times.

The equivalent but equal challenge is the measurement distance and target size for the beam. I think we will find these just as challenging to settle on.

 

[Dr_Joe]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

I think the less restrictions we put on the category the more appealing it will be to Guiness. The reason is that the uninitiated public doesn't perceive the "wow" factor of a record if they can't understand the qualifiers. (for instance, "Fastest pitched baseball" (not fastest pitched baseball at sea level with relative humidity less than 40% and temp not greater than 76 F, baseball with no less than 274 stitches, etc.....)

To the general public a flashlight is something you can hold in your hand and makes light, PERIOD ! (fools, what do they know)

The more qualifiers we put on it, the more likely GBWR will reject them.

Bragging rights could become a big deal for a manufacturer. I'm sure MaxaBeam, SureFire, Streamlight, Thor, etc... would love to be able to put Guiness World Record Holder on all their packages.

Once we accept that with their resources, who could ever stop them from building a purpose built, record breaking photon cannon and putting it on their website ("commercially available" !) for $10,000.

I think we need to find a way that true innovators (like we have here in our community) can compete on a level playing field. Otherwise what fun will it be to see an international competition of manufacturers for bragging rights with a bunch of purpose built and completely unattainable "flashlights"

Summary, Keep It Simple, keep the field large, disqualify "ringers" (price restriction or categories maybe ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

 

[HarryN]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

I am looking at this as a way for a variety of people, not just the largest companies, to have fun with this. The assignment of weight catagories and specifications to the testing will allow more, not less people to compete.

There is no doubt that the winners will in fact be purpose built lights (just like any record holding car or boat), but that does not mean that individuals or small groups will not be able to compete. A lot of cost is in engineering, not just in parts cost. CPF offers a way for a hobby group to team up and pool essentially free engineering resourcs.

I am entirely confident that a small team with the right attitude can compete sucessfully in all of the 500 gram and smaller catagories, and "might" compete in the 1000 gram catagory. There are very few light engine and power sources which cannot be obtained by a determined hobby group.

Believe it or not, the hardest part is going to be achieving agreement on the specs, not the 1 hour run time, target size, or target distance. Those will be the fun aspects of the projects.

Price - that could make for an interesting way to put a lid on the catagories. If we include "SF Beast" as a candidate light, then that price point is around US$ 3 K. Smaller lights will not necessarily be cheaper in small qty, but it would be nice of course. I suppose we could put a US$ 5 K limit on the price for any catagory but would that really solve the problem ?

 

[CroMAGnet]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

Has this went anywhere? Any updates from GBWR?

 

[mobile1]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

Hi there, nice animated gif there Do you have a larger resolution version of that?

Regarding your question, well even though I started this thread, I didnt have the time (& motivation I guess) to come up with categories, lead the discussion until we all agree on a framework, then discuss it with the GBWR associate.

However I there is anyone else out there willing to do this, I can pass on the contact information of this person.

 

[andrewwynn]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

Well.. i'm on the way to make said light i think... runtime is currently estimated at about 3.5 minutes... but starting out at about 80,000 lumens.. it will be totally self-contained.. no back-pack battery.. aiming for a size of about 20" diameter and 20" long... I'm not sure if the reflector is elliptical or parabolic yet.. which will determine if i have 300million lux at 1degree or 100,000 lux at a 45deg beam angle, but for the purpose of my 'technology demonstration'.. i will accept either... the latter would be a lot more useful actually.

I agree with the basic idea that too many restrictions really make it hard to be 'fun'... I think.. that if you can pull off a portable light, that is actually hand-held.. self-contained batteries... does it matter if it runs for a minute or 10?

It becomes difficult to decide what to call it (searchlight/flashlight).. when it's 20" in diameter.. but they may already have categories for such things.

To me.. the key is repeatability and portability.. can you recharge the bats and use it over and over, or does it consume itself, etc... in any event.. what i have cooked up is a lot bigger than what was originally thought of in the context of this thread, but may have a place in history nonetheless.

-awr

 

[yaesumofo]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

Each light should be tested 3 times. each light should be measured for lux at 10 meters 4 times during each run. these numbers should be averaged together for a total average output for each light.
One point here is that as a flashlight it should be repeatable. 1 meter is too close and sensor's could be overwhelmed.
there should be classes. like spotlight THOR COSTC HID (the winner). off the shelf. custom and micro custom where the measurement distance is set to 1 meter
My 2 cents.
I feel strongly about the multiple runs. That is how they do speed runs at Bonneville salt flats 2 runs within an hour.
it is also how they did the race to space prize 2 runs within a week. we do 4 runs within a 6 hour period 1 hour each. But if a light can put out 4 x as much light but only for 15 minutes he shouldn't be out of the running.
1 hour run times are necessary for a "Brightest" flashlight record.
Yaesumofo

 

[andrewwynn]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

i totally agree on the multiple runs.

so.. you are saying.. 1hr is a good restriction for flashlights, but not 'spotlight'? what's the thor?

i won't be able to get a meter reading at 10 meters that will be far too close, it could be 30,000 lux at 100M.

-awr

 

[VidPro]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

""We don't really want people incorporating small plutonium power plants into these!""

lol, what a waste, ruins the whole thing.
and Commertially available? that doesnt make ANY sence whatsoever.
was the 7'8" giant comertially available?
is the person who hopped for 75 days straight commertial?
is the guy who drove 15,000MPH on the ground, available as a product for the street?

oh hey mabey that is Ripleys instead

the world records in guenesses, should be breakable DAILY, even if that means that its broken with a plutonium flashlight.
mabey the parameter is just
SAFE
USABLE
TESTABLE
OPERATIONAL
not , RESTRICTED :-(

If its the Guinesses book of Sponcor corporations /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif, then WHO is going to BUY the thing, to find out what records can be made and broken again.

 

[HarryN]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

[ QUOTE ]
yaesumofo said:
Each light should be tested 3 times. each light should be measured for lux at 10 meters 4 times during each run. these numbers should be averaged together for a total average output for each light.

___

In general, I agree with your concept, but let me give an example where it could cause the project to be kind of rigged. Suppose I know in advance the "times" during the run when the measurement would be taken - I could program the light to be running at some lower level the rest of the time, then ramp it up to max power for the "measurements".

Taking this to a limit, if I know the response time of the meter, I can flash the light at a frequency which fools the meter.

Before you say "no flashing", guess what - a whole bunch of regulated lights, both incan and LED, are essentially "flashed" on and off all the time.

Somehow, the measurement technique needs to be a somewhat continuous integrated measurement over time, and over the space dimension.

Andrew points out exactly what I was talking about above - a high powered light needs to be measured at a long distance. Andrew, would you consider doing a quick calculation of the guesstimated performance of your light using the distance / weight formula I proposed earlier. I am very curious of how this would work out.

 

[mobile1]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

How about letting it run for an hour and taking the LOWEST light level during this period of time. Regarding commercially available, we would have to talk to Guiness... maybe they would take SAVE instead.

 

[andrewwynn]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

harry, not sure what you mean by the distance/weight formula.. clue me in and i'll give it a go.

My RT4 outputs 9000 lux.. it'll do it for about 40-45 minutes... not sure where the 'hour' comes from... do they already have some restriction? yes of coruse.. the RT3000 i don't think would ever be called a 'flashlight' however.. portable.. hand-held spotlight.. yes.. 300,000,000 lux would not be out-of-reach.. 40,000 lumens is the latest estimate of light output.

-awr

 

[HarryN]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

[ QUOTE ]
HarryN said:
Hi, after thinking about it some more, I have decided to agree with the catagories based on mass instead of my proposed volume basis.

I have a few suggestions for mass (weight) catagories - with the tested light having to weigh in at less than or equal to the class:
- 125 grams
- 250 grams
- 500 grams
- 1 kg
- 10 kg

Each light would be tested at 0.1 meters x weight class, so a 250 gram light would be tested at 0.1 x 250 = 25 meters. A 10,000 gram light (10 kg) would be tested at 1,000 meters, a reasonable distance for a light in this class.

For the test illumination object, I would like us to use a standard disc in the 3 - 5 meter diameter and some kind of averaging technique over the area. This is not so far from how many flashlights are focused now.

Please keep us up to date on responses from the GBWR people.

Thanks HarryN

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[mobile1]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

I like the size to distance rating. However this means that the optics/reflector will be almost more important then the bulp/LED. Using weight rather then volume means that someone could take a large but thin reflector (some type of foil) that is focusing the light exactly on one spot. So we might end up with a 250gram light with a 5ft reflector. Or something bulky and unusable no one had in mind when imagining a 250g light.
I personally don't care about weight, only size. The drawback is it's hard to imagine volume, while weight is something everyone gets an idea of.

 

[andrewwynn]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

this weight class makes perfect sense.. and i believe at a KM.. the oscarbeam will probably have between 50 and 300 lux, so it actually makes perfect sense.. also at a km.. it coincidentally is a factor of 1Milllion so the reading you take in lux ends up being 'megalux'. I think i can make the oscarbeam in an under 10kg weight class, which is very reasonable weight for the size and power of the light in the works. I think that maybe the GBWR guys will be able to figure out how to classifiy the light to be able to include it in their book... i'm well underway to make AFAIK the brightest hand-held light in the world.. it would be nice notoriety to have it in the book.

 

[HarryN]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

Andrew - do you really think my proposal and how it worked out at 1 KM was a conincidence ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[andrewwynn]

Re: Guiness Book - Brightest Handheld Flashlight/T

well, now that you mention it... i'd be pretty sure you knew before you proposed it... it's really dang nice though.. 'megalux' is a nice scale for lights in this magnitude.

-awr