Has your ITP A3 EOS blown on a 10440 ?

JulianP

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There is an ongoing discussion on different threads on whether 10440 batteries can be used in the ITP A3 EOS. The manual is confusing, so I thought the best way to resolve this is by asking real-life testers the following:

1. Have you blown your ITP EOS by using a 10440 rechargeable lithium battery?

2. If you are using a 10440 in an ITP A3 EOS, and it is still working, how long have you been using it for?

My own experience is that I have been using a 10440 in my SS ITP A3 EOS for about three weeks without problem, longest time on max - about 30 seconds.

Lets hope we can resolve this.
 

Trident1

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Over a year and no problem. Never left on high for more than a few minutes at most - gets warm, but still works great.
 

shelm

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i have been using the itp a3 XP-G R5 for many many minutes on all modes with 10440. not blown yet. my torch is a few months old.
longest consecutive runtime on max: till the cell was empty (from 4.20V resting voltage to 2.75V under load).
 

flashflood

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Never a problem with 10440. Sadly though, my little iTP died of other causes. It spent a year on my keychain, which I drop far more often than any normal human, and eventually something inside snapped. I'm now carrying the tank-like Fenix LD01 SS, also running 10440, also without incident. This will soon be replaced by the MBI Torpedo, for even more irresponsible lumens. 10440 + XML = :devil:
 

Danielight

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I bought my ITP A3 EOS from Shining Beam a couple of months ago. I have only run Eneloop AAAs in mine, so obviously have been safe in that respect. From the Shining Beam website info about this light:

* Voltage input range: 0.9 - 3V
* Compatible with 1 x AAA akaline or NIMH
* Works with 1 x 10440 Li-Ion, but not recommended

It's as though the manufacturer is saying, "Enter at your own risk."
 

Streamer

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I'm now carrying the tank-like Fenix LD01 SS, also running 10440, also without incident. :devil:

Sorry for off topic but:

I have the SS LD01 R5. It is current regulated and I don't see any more significant brightness with a 10440. Maybe yours is a different LED edition?
 
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JulianP

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It's as though the manufacturer is saying, "Enter at your own risk."
That's exactly what we need to do here. Find out the risks, if any. If we get 100 posts saying no blow-ups, even the most cautious will be tempted to use a 10440 and double the lumens. After a while, dealers and manufacturers will refer people to this thread.
 

flashflood

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Sorry for off topic but:

I have the SS LD01 R5. It is current regulated and I don't see any more significant brightness with a 10440. Maybe yours is a different LED edition?

Same LED, but huge difference in brightness with 10440. I will measure this evening and report back.
 

njet212

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I feed my ITP A3 XPG-R5 with 10440, been using it for a year or so. No blown LED or Fried circuit so far. Like the other says you should limit your usage on hi max when using 10440 ( under 1 min ). I find myself always use low n med mode, i do rarely using high mode.
 

flashflood

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Same LED, but huge difference in brightness with 10440. I will measure this evening and report back.

flashflood reporting for duty.

I measured my trusy old iTP A3 EOS (on high) at 187 lumens on 10440. I do not have AAA or NiMH measurements for it.

I just measured the Fenix LD01 SS (on high) at 119 lumens on AAA, 190 lumens on Eneloop, 306 lumens on 10440 IMR. All fully charged, natch.

Interesting that Eneloop outperforms alkaline despite its lower voltage chemistry -- evidently its very low internal resistance and ability to deliver current trumps. But the 10440 really shines.
 

jamesmyname

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I just put an Eneloop in mine today. It was noticably brighter than the alkaline that had been in there, although that may have been an old battery (I'm not familair enought to know if that would have made a difference with it being a regulated light or not). I went to my local hardware store yesterday to find a 10440, but no luck. I'm interested to know what other people have experienced, because that boost in output is tempting (even if it's only safe to use it for a couple minutes at a time on high)!
 

gcbryan

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I have the older A3 with XR-E or XP-E (whatever is in there) and have used 10440 with no problems. However I just do it occasionally on high just for the novelty of it.

I have a single AA light that works with both AA and 14500 supposedly but after long use with a 14500 the light no longer works with AA.

I don't know if that is something to be concerned with regarding the A3.
 

roadkill1109

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1. Nope
2. Yes, still working as good as the day it was bought. The battery is doing fine too, i rotate two 10440 using it.

Me, ive tried keeping mine on until the battery died, which was about 5 minutes, but my cell wasn't freshly charged. I held it up to the aircon which was keeping it at a cool 18 degrees, some moist came on the lens, but went away right away.

The pluses outweigh the cons running a 10440 on the A3:
1. It has great run time at med (which is basically high on AAA's)
2. very LSD (ive kept mine for months on end, never lost charge, maybe .2 or .3 of a volt only.)
3. wows people who can't believe such a tiny light can beat a 2D cell maglite. :)
4. handy, you could even forget you had it in your pocket.
5. 200+ lumens is still 200+ lumens compared to if it was running on regular AAA's which would be less than a hundred lumens.
6. in lowest mode, can be used as a night light and still have enough juice to be EDC'd the next day.

The only con this has is that it can't tail stand, but hey, that's why there's the Olight i3, right? :) Hmm, doesnt say on the olight site that it can take a 10440. Hmmm... did they change the circuitry when they merged brands? I wonder.... (think)



There is an ongoing discussion on different threads on whether 10440 batteries can be used in the ITP A3 EOS. The manual is confusing, so I thought the best way to resolve this is by asking real-life testers the following:

1. Have you blown your ITP EOS by using a 10440 rechargeable lithium battery?

2. If you are using a 10440 in an ITP A3 EOS, and it is still working, how long have you been using it for?

My own experience is that I have been using a 10440 in my SS ITP A3 EOS for about three weeks without problem, longest time on max - about 30 seconds.

Lets hope we can resolve this.
 

shelm

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iTP A3:

Me, ive tried keeping mine on until the battery died, which was about 5 minutes, but my cell wasn't freshly charged. I held it up to the aircon which was keeping it at a cool 18 degrees, some moist came on the lens, but went away right away.
...
The only con this has is that it can't tail stand
with a full cell i get max 15min of runtime (there are many ways to extract the generated heat; you can even use your bare hands if they are really cold (from outdoors winter)). you can get the A3 to tailstand if you use heat shrinkable tubing at the tail. recall how the T20C2 Mk II is made tailstand ;)
LD01 R5:

(or R4, both current regulated, not PWM regulated!):
I measured my trusy old iTP A3 EOS (on high) at 187 lumens on 10440. I do not have AAA or NiMH measurements for it.

I just measured the Fenix LD01 SS (on high) at 119 lumens on AAA, 190 lumens on Eneloop, 306 lumens on 10440 IMR. All fully charged, natch.

Interesting that Eneloop outperforms alkaline despite its lower voltage chemistry -- evidently its very low internal resistance and ability to deliver current trumps. But the 10440 really shines.
Do you have a DMM? The LD01 R5 loses all modes on 10440 (can you confirm this on your sample?) and probably goes into direct drive. Current draw has to be something like 3.5A (and i need to remeasure it one day). I can confirm that LD01 R4 is (much) brighter than iTP A3 XP-G R5 when both on 10440 ("Hi"). But because of the LD01's fantastic :duh2: current draw and the resulting huge voltage sag (cell voltage under load!), the protection circuit of the 10440 trips already after a few seconds (~30sec?). Of course, after 30secs, the cell isnt empty yet (resting voltage 4.00V) but game is over already. Therefore i dont see much point in running the LD01 R4/R5 on 10440's (i have no experience with IMR). If it isnt unsafe for the LED or driver (because what are 30secs?? -- no heat issues feared!), it is unsafe from viewpoint of the cell. Anyone with a DMM feel free to measure and confirm the insane current draw. I dont know too much about LiIon batteries but 3.5A from a "500mAh" cell (with actual capacity of maybe 300mAh) could lead to :poof:. ( I will correct the numbers in this post when more exact data is available to us, "3.5A" is my sound estimate so far. )

flashflood, the lumens numbers in relation to each other look good. Do they compare to manufacturer's lumens numbers (OTF or ANSI FL-1)? For example, your LD01 is rated 72 lumens. And are you sure that your LD01 on Eneloops is as bright as your ITP A3 on 10440? (190 vs 187 lumens). I admit that LD01 is very very bright on Eneloops (and the 72lm have to be underrated) but the "190lm" .. :confused:

Interesting thread, we should keep talking about both. ITP A3 (Olight i3) *and* Fenix LD01 R5 (and R4)
 

Streamer

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I just rechecked my SS LD01 R5 on 10440. What I said in above post, I must have been drunk or having a bad day. The 10440 is WAYYYYY brighter in each mode. My 10440 is the blue unprotected one. What a difference. Just wonderin how safe to run this being direct drive and all.

Running it in the first mode (med) is really perfect. Hi is for wowing. :)
 

shelm

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I just rechecked my SS LD01 R5 on 10440. What I said in above post, I must have been drunk or having a bad day. The 10440 is WAYYYYY brighter in each mode. My 10440 is the blue unprotected one. What a difference. Just wonderin how safe to run this being direct drive and all.

Running it in the first mode (med) is really perfect. Hi is for wowing. :)
as with LD10 (1x AA/14500, selfbuilt's test of it), i dont get different modes with LD01 (1x AAA/10440). this statement is valid for LD01 R4 which i have.

apparently LD01 R4 and LD01 R5 behave differently on 10440's.

btw, why are there no videos on youtube with people showing off the iTP A3 (different emitters) on 10440's and showing the LD01 (different emitters) on 10440's? -- then we could save much of the discussion. (i dont own any video cam, so i cant post video proof myself.)
 

Patriot

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I've been runing the 10440 in ITPs since the inception of the light. While I don't own the XP-G version, I don't think there would be any issue with running them in the newest model either. I haven't blown an LED yet using a 10440 cell perhaps partially due to the fact that the 10440 cell is the weak link in the chain rather than the LED itself. The voltage drops so rapidly during high output that the cell sort of pseudo regulates the temperature.

With regards to youtube videos, I'd be happy to include the ITP XP-E in my next 10440 demo vid. I was just about tho demo the Thrunight TI with the same cell.
 

shelm

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The voltage drops so rapidly during high output that the cell sort of pseudo regulates the temperature.

With regards to youtube videos, I'd be happy to include the ITP XP-E in my next 10440 demo vid.
hi patriot, i know your vids ( preon 10440, .. ), very helpful and definitive contributions. if i had a camera i'd probably do similar relevant statements in videographic format ( 10440 test runs, drop tests, flashlight comparisons, time elapse videos, poofing drivers, and other user-created tests and verifications ) and not the usual useless and time-wasting youtube **** like "Look this is what i got yesterday in the mail a brand new Preon 2, and today in this video i am going to review the light (by reading off the specs and website info and demonstrating how one operates the modes)"-reviews.
**** that!!
so i am one of those who really appreciate your efforts and videos because yours are real contributions to the world with new info and insight (e.g. for the purpose of our wisdom, experience and records). so thanks a million for them.

As i had mentioned earlier, the FENIX has a *really bada$$* current draw, and one doesnt get much more than 30secs of burn time (R4 edition) because of the steep voltage sag under load. 30secs easily fit on a youtube clip.

The ITP has a less steep voltage sag and one gets more (effective) capacity out of the cell. Runtime is between 3-5mins and 15mins, depending on how you extract the heat (or on how cold the whole system incl cell is). Cell temperature has a considerable effect on the discharge behavior (runtime), and you get higher runtimes (approaching 15mins) when the ITP is cooled minimally only. You probably do *not* own Protected 10440's (i do own them and love them), just my guess!, but they would allow to demonstrate a cell's burn time for the full length of your video. If your video was 15min in length, you could demonstrate how long the runtime of the (Protected) 10440 is in the ITP (since it's less than that).

A great way to control system temperature is by wrapping the torch with a wet washcloth, or immersing the head only (bezel down) in cold water. That's how i get the 15mins without damaging the LED. The ITP is water-resistant. If you fully immerse the ITP in ice-water (water mixed with ice, at 0°Celsius), you get merely 3min of runtime before the protection kicks in. Then your video would be shorter :D

i dont want to hijack this thread and i've given already too much unasked info, so within 24hrs i will delete most of this post :sick2: except for the thanks to patriot :wave:
 
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