Have you driven a Ford lately?

[Flying Turtle]

I just traded in a 2000 Mazda MPV that had the Ford Duratec 2.5 V6. The engine never had a problem, except a "moosing" noise from the idle air control valve only at start off in cold weather. I managed 112 K without even a tuneup. Only thing I did was change the air filter twice. I thought it kind of funny that they built the engine in Cleveland, then shipped it to Japan for installation.

Geoff

 

[ledlurker]

I just finished scanning this post, and excuse me if I did not see this posted.

The US is the only industrialized country in the world that funds health care the by way of having companies pay for and maintain it. The biggest reason why GM laid off so many people is that they have one of the best health care packages in he country. the cost of this care averages over $1500 for every vehicle they produce ( more for healthcare than the metals that go in it). So, how can a US company compete with overseas production when there is a $1500 addition for a similar vehicle. High gasoline prices cooled large SUV sales which has the highest profit margins which made the problem worse.

Unions and stuff do add to it but the fastest growing cost in vehicle production is healthcare.

 

[cratz2]

What kind of health packages does Toyota and Honda offer its American workers? Are they at all comparable to GMs? I'd also like to see the pay scales (including all bonuses and stock options) of the top 5 executives of Ford, GM, Honda and Toyota. Without really knowing anything about it, I'd also be willing to bet that many of Ford's and GM's decisions have to do with how much money the top brass will make in the next two years while Honda's and Toyota's decisions are 99.9% concerned with the long haul.

 

[turbodog]

I can vouche for the GM healthcare thing. I used to work there, and have family that still does.

When I used to work there (not that long ago):
100% pay for office visits
100% dental, includes braces, crowns, etc.
$2 prescription drugs, name brand, no mail order required
Covered cosmetic surgery 100%
100% coverage on e/r visits
50% coverage on ambulance rides
No worrying with "network" providers

In all the years I/family have worked for them, we _NEVER_ had a claim questioned or refused in any manner.


Basically, it paid for everything.

 

[rayearth]

I just saw the trashed Toyota video and was very impressed.

Anyway, my goodness. That insurance benefit is very impressive. I have never seen anything like it. I'm a hospital doctor and even I don't get that good of a coverage. That kind of coverage is very expensive and if GM provides that to most their employees, this explains why GM's bonds are junk status. I just thought that unions were just a small part of the problem, but if the unions forced GM into this, then GM's management is doing damage control instead of innovating/engineering. We're in trouble ...

 

[ikendu]

Yeah, I remember that project [80 mpg family cars], it was one of Al Gore's pets. By 2000 they basically had the car designed and ready to go. Then Bush got elected and he and his oil buddy cronies cancelled the whole program so that the oil companies wouldn't have to face any possible decreases in demand for gasoline. A pity that big business and government have turned out to be worse enemies to us than the Soviet Union ever was.

Pretty ironic that Exxon has announced their $36 Billion profit; largest in U.S. history. NPR had a discussion of their stock price last night indicating that even with these record profits, the price was stagnant. Why? Apparently investors think there is no future in oil companies. Why? Because the product they sell is shrinking away all over the planet. Slowing down our consumption of petroleum is probably the biggest favor we could do the oil companies as it would stretch out the time that it will last (at higher and higher prices). Funny that they don't see it that way.

Instead, the oil companies have done everything they could to prevent the ethanol market. Shoot, we even have oil lobbiests making contributions to politicians in Iowa (not an oil state BTW). Why? The oil industry is SO afraid that somehow people using ethanol means that they will sell less oil. Instead of embracing their role as "energy companies" (providing refining and distribution of liquid fuels), some of these companies (like Exxon) can only see their future through petroleum colored glasses.

It is sad to see the lack of leadership from our politicians and business leaders. Ford could be selling high mpg sedans right now and blowing the socks off of the car market. Instead, they've embraced a future of shrinking companies that will lead to their extinction.

 

[Bravo25]

I know this is a Ford thread, but I would like to point out that according to USA Today, GM is also laying off as many people, and closing almost as many plants.

As for the high mileage cars, I think putting an oil man in the White House did have something to do with them dissapearing, but we are to balme as well. We let him get away with it.

 

[Delvance]

Yeah GM are closing a bunch of plants as well. Guess it's not going good for both of them.

I live in Australia, so the Ford cars on the road are built locally, and the current crop of Ford vehicles are actually quite nice, even outdoing Holden (GM) vehicles. Some of the Ford performance vehicles availble here atm are very good value for money and is quality too, heh.

But anyways, i drive a Toyota, and yes, the thing is very reliable...almost 130,000+ km's and nothing major at all, car is serviced regularly with good stuff though and also engine/injector treatments once awhile. Toyota engines are generally very well made, with only a few bad designs. For example, the current crop of Corolla's and the Corolla Sportivo (the XRS up there) engines are designed to be revved really high and take the punishment, so everyday normal driving should give plenty of years of reliable service...plus it's good on petrol.

My 2cents.

 

[Pydpiper]

130,000 kms on your Toyota? It isn't even broken in yet! My father in law drives (drove) a Camry, he gave it to his son with over 500,000 kms on it, oil sprayed it once a year, regular maintenance, 0 issues..
Ugly as sin though..
He got rid of it to get a Sierra, been in the shop multiple times in one year, bad tranny, leaking rear diff, squeeks galore, tailgate handle fell off, seat wouldn't slide back, had to use two hands to slam the rer door....

 

[ledlurker]

I just saw the trashed Toyota video and was very impressed.

Anyway, my goodness. That insurance benefit is very impressive. I have never seen anything like it. I'm a hospital doctor and even I don't get that good of a coverage. That kind of coverage is very expensive and if GM provides that to most their employees, this explains why GM's bonds are junk status. I just thought that unions were just a small part of the problem, but if the unions forced GM into this, then GM's management is doing damage control instead of innovating/engineering. We're in trouble ...

I believe the health benifit is for all employees, even the salaried non-union ones. My wife was once a employee for the state of Texas. Our first child cost us only $5. A $5 copay for her first OBY/GYN visit, we never had to shell out another dime. He could have been born at 25 weeks and incurred over a million bucks in cost in premie care and still the cost out of our pocket would have been $5. Now, in a different job our second child did have some pre-term labor problems, my wife was on bedrest in a hospital for 3 weeks then 7 weeks at home and then a short stay in the hospital after normal delivery for Jaundice. I remember that our out of pocket expenses where a little over $11,000.

Federal Civil Service employees and State Civil Service Employees pay some of the least healthcare cost in the nation at the expense of the taxpayers but yet their are the biggest opponents of changing the system.

 

[Ken_McE]

Have you heard the latest news?

Ford Bans Competitors' Vehicles From Lot!

What this link says to me is that even the people who build them don't want to own them. :sigh:



My last Ford was an F-100 Van. I didn't know anything about Ford company health plans or Detroit unions, but I knew some about the truck. I paid attention to it. I took care of it. At one point I looked into what was inbetween the driver and the world if you should run into anything. The driver sat higher up than the bumper and off to one side of the motor, not in back of it. After crawling around and prying into the front end I decided that the only thing between the driver and any accident was some sheet metal and the headlights. This did not make me happy. I decided to add a second front bumper, the new one placed so it could actually protect the driver.

Then I found out from a mechanic that the next model year after mine Ford changed the front end around specifically so that they wouldn't lose so many Ford owners in collisions. How come I, an unremarkable van owner, noticed this problem before the Ford motor company did?

Then there was the time I went to bleed the brakes, a modest, routine operation. The van sat up high so it was easy to work on stuff underneath it. When I went to bleed them I discovered Ford had carefully designed them so that you could not open them with a wrench - you could put a wrench on the bleeder valve but not turn it - or you could put a socket over the valve but you could not have a handle mounted to the socket, it would not fit. If the valve had been designed two inches off to one side you could have worked it with anything, a pair of pliers in a pinch, but they would not do that.

This suggested a number of possibilities, none of them good. :shakehead

For my next van I didn't look at any Fords.

 

[stevesurf]

I just got in at Indy Airport and rented a Ford Focus SES. This car corners well (I would estimate 0.85G) and feels very stable. Yes the interior is really spartan, but the car has nice looks, great handling and a beautiful bright red paint job mmmmmmmm.

 

[Knifemaster]

Simple math will tell you that if you're paying your employees twice as much as your competition to do the same job, you won't be in business for long.

I think this is a common misconception they make almost the same money and they don't have to pay any union fees.

:huh:

 

[Knifemaster]

H
I also know personally of my mothers former employeer that after many Benzes and BMWs, longed for a Jaguar. He ordered one and after waiting about 2 months, took delivery of it. The first day he owned it, the driveshaft came loose from the transmission end.
.

Jaguar is owned by Ford:lolsign:

 

[turbodog]

I just got in at Indy Airport and rented a Ford Focus SES. This car corners well (I would estimate 0.85G) and feels very stable. Yes the interior is really spartan, but the car has nice looks, great handling and a beautiful bright red paint job mmmmmmmm.

Well, the focus was specifically designed for ford to compete in rally races. That explains the suspension.

The rally racers are required to use a stock car and suspension. They can mod/change the engine/tranny/etc though.

 

[leukos]

I imagine Ford Mustangs (especially convertibles) still have some fans.

 

[turbodog]

The way I see it, domestic auto mfgs are losing ground but will not continue to do so.

Why?

The market will split. It always does. People love a choice.

Take any large market with one supplier. Let another one show up. They automatically get about 40% by default.

Domestic cars have problems, yes. But the problems aren't nearly as dramatic as most people believe. Domestic quality has come up a lot, and foreign has dropped.

Also, price difference. Foreign may be better, but are they *that* much better? Repairs, insurance, and service parts are generally much cheaper for domestic. Sure resale is higher on foreign, but it better be!

We all have gotten crap cars.

Let me tell you of a story of a ford ranger I owned...

My wife and I decided to buy a ranger. I wanted the v6 3.0 and she wanted the auto transmission.

Do you have ANY idea how hard that combo is to find? The typical ranger is a manual 4 cylinder setup.

Well, that was the first (and last) year ford used that particular transmission. I went through 3-4 of them. I actually lost count.

The last time around, the Aamco guy did a complete rebuild for free if I would agree to never come back.

And, I went through a complete windshield every 4 months. A rock would hit it, and it would split like crazy before I could get it patched.

Would I still buy ford? yes.

Why did I buy my tundra? The seat belts on EVERY domestic truck were very uncomfortable. I know.... picky picky. Ask me how many times I have had the rotors turned and pads replaced on it. Can you say toyota's chronic problem. Do you know that a full repair for BRAKES is over $2000. :help:

 

[bjn70]

I drive a Ford every day- a 1997 Taurus SHO. I also have a whole batch of Maglites.

However my Ford isn't like any other normal Ford. The SHO has a 32 valve V8 made by Yamaha, has different springs, shocks, rollbars, tires and wheels. It also has different interior, different radio and some different body pieces. Not that there aren't problems with the way it's built, and a few major reliability gremlins, but I've eliminated one of them. 20,000 of these models were built over a 4 year period 1996-1999, don't know how many are left but the owners who have banded together on the net have sworn to get recognition from Ford for the engine reliability issues and have sworn to not buy future Ford products.

And the Maglites- I have now about 8 of them, but like my car none of them are normal. There is one Mag85, a couple running 9V w/ Radio Shack KPR bulbs, two with Luxeons, including one Solitaire, two w/ MJLED's, and one waiting for me to think up something to do with it.

 

[markdi]

I think sho's are kool

my modded grand am out acelerates the 6 cylinder models to 95 mph.

I do not know if I have ever raced a v8 one.

small displacement all aluminum high reving 4 cam 32 valve v8

distibuitorless multi coil ignition
digital sequential fuel injection

sounds like love at first sight to me.

 

[NeonLights]

So far my wife and I have owned the following Fords:
1981 Mustang (V8) - sold
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 - sold
1991 Escort - sold
2005 Freestyle - still own

We've also had other american cars (two Neons and a Lebaron) as well as several VW's, a Datsun, a couple Suzukis, and two Volvos. We're not biased towards American or foreign cars, but have had mostly good experiences with all of our cars. My '89 Mustang still had the original clutch when it was sold at 180,000 miles, and was almost entirely trouble free. One of our Volvos (pre-Ford days) had 250,000 miles when it was totalled. All of the Fords we've owned have performed as well or better than our other cars. In addition to the Freestyle, we currently own an '05 Mini Cooper as well. I won't hesitate to own another Ford product, whether used or new, and I'm in the market for another Mustang (either a Bullitt or a Mach 1), and the Freestyle will likely be replaced by a used Expedition next year when the lease is up.

Ford as a company is in trouble, but it isn't because it builds poor quality vehicles (IMO it doesn't). The UAW is definitely to blame in part, and I agree with some of the others who have said that unions were once a good thing, but not any more. My current job at UPS mandates that I'm in a union (Teamster's), but given the choice, I'd rather not be. The next 2-3 years will be interesting to watch what Ford and GM do to try to turn back their current downward spirals, and return to the days of profitability.

-Keith