Having problems...is it the lights, batteries, or charger?

[Nubster]

Ok, after much debate and research on here I went with two light setups for on-duty use. I went with a Klarus XT11 and a Nailbender XPG2 with OP reflector in a Solarforce L2T host. Both have been great and used on-duty. Batteries I went with are the AW 18650Protected 3400 mAh rechargeable Lithium batteries abd the charger is an UltraFire WF-139. At first, thing were good. One thing I found odd was that when the charger was plugged in, the charging lights lit up green and stayed green all the time, even when charging. Not sure if they are supposed to be red until the batteries are fully charged or blink or if the solid continuous green is normal. Anyways, I was charging the batteries as needed and it seemed over time, the batteries were lasting less and less time. So finally, it got to the point where I'd charge overnight and install the batteries and after ten minutes or so, my lights, both of them, would start flashing...like a slow strobe. I then decided to completely discharge the batteries overnight and recharge. I charged all day and placed them in the light. One battery does nothing, the other one is weak and either light immediately starts strobing when I put the other battery in it. So I'm wondering if it is the charger (I'm thinking it is) or the batteries? At first I thought it was the light because initially it was only the Klarus that would flash, but I was using it more and I think it draws more power so it drains the battery quicker but eventually the Nailbender started flashing too, so I figured both lights being bad was unlikely.

If it is the charger, can someone recommend one? Is the WF-139 generally a decent charger? Should I try the WF-188 instead or a whole different brand such as the intellacharge i2 or something else?

 

[StarHalo]

Yikes, you're not supposed to leave cells in a WF-139, and you're supposed to check their voltage before charging. You need to seriously review Li-ion safety and handling procedures before you proceed, you very nearly created a chemical fire.

 

[Nubster]

Oh well. I can't seem to find anything on this site that gives a run down of the safe use of these batteries. Where might one find good info?

 

[StarHalo]

It's something you have to search around for, but here's a summary: You must own a multimeter to use Li-ions, and you must check their voltage before and after charging. The goal is to always keep the voltage between 3.6 and 4.15 volts; if you take the cell off the charger immediately after it finishes charging, a new/undamaged cell will be almost exactly 4.15 volts (the WF-139 charger continues charging if you do not remove the cells, a quick and easy way to get them to explode - you must mind this charger!) Check your cell from time to time in use; falling below 3.6 volts will mildly reduce the cell's lifespan, below 3 will start to damage it, and below ~2.7 may kill the cell completely or make it unsafe for charging. Recharge at 3.6 volts when possible. Don't keep your Li-ion cell light in a car (sunlight/heat) and don't expose it to temps below 0 F.

You can get a perfectly decent multimeter (the one I use) here for five bucks.

 

[Gregozedobe]

Oh well. I can't seem to find anything on this site that gives a run down of the safe use of these batteries. Where might one find good info?

StarHalo has given you a good summary, for more detailed info have a look in this sub-forum:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?9-Flashlight-Electronics-Batteries-Included

 

[Nubster]

What a pain in the ***...who has time for all that. I think I'll just switch to CR123's. Besides, sounds like maybe my 18650's are toast anyways. But...since the batteries are protected, shouldn't they be protected from being overcharged/overdischarged? How can I test to see if they are still good? I have a multimeter, just need to dig it out.

And thanks for the info!

 

[StarHalo]

What a pain in the ***...who has time for all that. I think I'll just switch to CR123's. Besides, sounds like maybe my 18650's are toast anyways. But...since the batteries are protected, shouldn't they be protected from being overcharged/overdischarged? How can I test to see if they are still good? I have a multimeter, just need to dig it out.

Protected means they are protected from draining much below 3 volts - this feature is like an airbag on a car, it's something you should only use in an emergency, as discharging the cell that low does reduce its lifespan a bit. Recharging at 3.6 volts is the goal, so when in doubt, check with the multimeter.

Set your multimeter to 20V DC (not any "battery test" mode) - if your cell tests between ~2.7 and 4.2 volts, it's good. Lower than that and you should probably replace it. If it reads zero, this is potentially a defect/short and you should definitely discard that cell, it will most likely explode if you try to charge it. Always test before and after charging, anomalous readings can point to something dangerous.

It is quite a bit of extra work to use Li-ions, but the payoff is the power density and capacity; these lights run brighter and longer than anything else. Just bear in mind that some CPFers who weren't paying attention have started fires and have nearly burnt their houses down - Li-ions are definitely for the trained hobbyist only.

 

[Norm]

Oh well. I can't seem to find anything on this site that gives a run down of the safe use of these batteries. Where might one find good info?

Have you checked the stickies?

Norm

 

[gianetics]

get the intellicharger I4 it will charge li-ions, ni-mh, and ni-cd batteries and it wont overcharge them. you still need to read up on li-ion though

 

[Nubster]

Have you checked the stickies?

Norm

Yeah and they are worthless. I found nothing that gave any information nearly as good as what StarHalo has provided.

 

[gradio]

All the checks/care is what mostly keeps me from using Li-ions. And I wouldn't want the wife & kid messing with them.

 

[StarHalo]

And I wouldn't want the wife & kid messing with them.

Yes, a very important point - once you put a Li-ion in a light, only people who are trained with Li-ion use can use it, otherwise you risk having the flashlight burn up or explode and causing serious injury. All it takes is someone turning on the light in the highest output position and then leaving it on for a few minutes, that is to say, someone just trying to use it the way they'd use a normal flashlight. Li-ion lights are just for your own personal use, always bear in mind that everyone else must have some other, separate flashlight to use.

 

[FlashKat]

Did the lights on the WF-139 ever turn red when charging, or did it always stay green?
The protection circuit on the batteries may possibly be preventing the batteries to charge if they did not turn red.
I have the WF-139 charger, and they are usually decent chargers.

 

[Norm]

Yeah and they are worthless. I found nothing that gave any information nearly as good as what StarHalo has provided.

I'll delete them then, we can't have useless information can we.

You obliviously failed to see the link to Battery university.

Norm

 

[Nubster]

I'll delete them then, we can't have useless information can we.

You obliviously failed to see the link to Battery university.

Norm

Great idea because yeah, they are useless. If you're new, like me, all those links really are no help. There's nothing there that would indicate to a new person that the link contains any information on the proper use of Li-ion batteries. If this is such an important topic and using these batteries is so potentially dangerous, maybe instead of diving into link after link to try and find something, how about one link, stickied at the top of every appropriate page that is titled "Dangers and Proper Care and Use of Li-Ion Batteries"? And when you click on it, there's the information. Not just a bunch more stupid links leading to old threads that may or may not have a tidbit of information that needs sifted through and pieced together. I spent an hour the other night looking for information and found squat, until StarHalo posted up some helpful stuff.