Hella Rallye 4000 or Lightforce 240 Blitz

[Sid Post]

I am looking for some ~9" lights for my Toyota Tundra with the NFAB Pre-runner "lightbar". I'm looking at the Hella Euro beam or the Lightforce Combo beam. I want good fill light in front of the pickup for low speed driving, median and shoulder clearance on the highway to clear deer/people/etc. when driving at speed, and added range for high speed to supplement the factory headlights.

How do these two lights compare to each other? Lightforce seems to be about $100 more expensive and much harder to find however, the few people that have them really swear by them. Hella has a real advantage of wide availability if I need bulbs, replacement lenses, etc.

Any beamshots would be appreciated along with end user reports on these lights and the various beam pattern options.

Thanks!
Sid

 

[KD5XB]

I used a pair of Cibie Oscar + with 100-watt elements some years ago. Brightest automotive lights I think I've ever seen. You can get a look at them here. The great thing about Cibie lights, well the second great thing, is that you can get them with a fog light pattern, a driving light pattern, or a long-range pattern (what some may call a pencil beam). They're very versatile.

(The FIRST great thing about them is that nobody, but NOBODY gives you the "brights"...)

They're a bit expensive -- but if you want something really effective, give them a look.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Not very impressed with Lightforce's marketing or proprietary bulbs. An orange or amber filter does not turn a driving lamp into a "fog" lamp, and blue or green filters are absolutely useless and in most cases illegal.

Hella provides the benchmark by which most other lights are measured by. When Hella says "fog beam" they really do mean fog beam; there's a different reflector and lens to create a different beam vs. a driving beam. I've installed several Rally 4000's in both halogen and HID with zero complaints; fantastic lights. Very bright, very durable.

:buddies:

 

[irsa76]

My thoughts on another thread:

I had a long, and rather heated, discussion with a LightFarce rep a few years ago. My thoughts on them is the smaller lights are good if weight is the number 1 concern, they are some what lighter then my Cibie Oscar SCs for example. However I have yet to be convinced that changeing the bulb/reflector relationship and clip on covers is the best solution for different beam patterns. Their claims of better durability may have some basis, however my Cibies have survived a high speed roll over with only a dent in the metal body, I also have doubts over the UV stabilty of the plastic Lightforce bodies. Personally I can't see the value in them, my lights cost me AUD$250 each 11 years ago and still retail, when you can find them, for AUD$300 each. Last time I looked the baby Lightforce was more expensive. It's interesting that pretty much the only people who I see using them here in Australia are the hard core macho 4x4 crowd. Trucks, ralliests and serious users stick with Hella and Cibie.
Oh yeah, just remembered, a local 4x4 magazine tested all the locally available lights a few years ago and commented that all the lightforce lights had very good long range pencil beam but less so spread beam. Interestingly their own 4x4s use Hella and Cibie lights.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=2369887

 

[-Virgil-]

If it's between those two, it's an easy pick: Hella. Better optics, better materials and construction, more durable and better mounting, bulbs and replacement parts you can buy everywhere. The Lightfarces are...silly. Those screwy colored snap-on "converter" lenses are a total joke. Credit where it's due, they sure know how to talk-up their stuff and who to give promo lights to, to get the buzz and chatter going about how super great they are. Reality and advertising never did spend much time together!

But yeah, you should also look into some of the Cibie options. Their Super Oscars are 8.75" diameter, are astoundingly good, and you can get them not only in single-beam types but in an H4 fog/drive beam type (produces a fog/spread or a drive/distance beam depending which filament in the H4 is lit). Cibies are harder to find than Hellas, at least in America. You can try Stern, and there are at least a couple other sources, one out in California and one in Michigan(?), but I don't find websites for 'em.

 

[BeachBoy]

can't be more durable than lightforce.. you can shoot a bullet at the lightforce without them breaking.

and blue is very useful in snow.

 

[KD5XB]

We all have our favorites and preferences. If those lights work for you the go and enjoy them.

 

[-Virgil-]

can't be more durable than lightforce.. you can shoot a bullet at the lightforce without them breaking.

Oh, interesting. Did you try that experiment yourself? Either way, it's good to know that the Lightforce units are a smart pick if you regularly drive along routes where people shoot guns at your auxiliary lamps.

and blue is very useful in snow.

If you're playing with toys (or hawking LightFarce lights and accessories), yes. If you're trying to see, no. This has been covered numerous times in other threads; blue light is never the right choice if you're trying to see while driving. Science and facts tell us that the opposite of what you and LightFarce say about blue light: in fact, yellow light is better for driving in snow. (PDF)

 

[LEDobsession]

and blue is very useful in snow.

No, blue is nasty. White, or better yet, yellow is better for the snow. White will sure light it up (can even be too much and blinding sometimes), and yellow is better for the contrast across the snow.

If you're playing with toys (or hawking LightFarce lights and accessories), yes. If you're trying to see, no. This has been covered numerous times in other threads; blue light is never the right choice if you're trying to see while driving. Science and facts tell us that the opposite of what you and LightFarce say about blue light: in fact, yellow light is better for driving in snow. (PDF)

Great reply, Scheinwerfermann. I like that PDF too.

 

[Sid Post]

Thanks everyone! I purchased Hella Rallye 4000's in the Eurobeam with City Lights. The City Lights should make really good Daytime Running Lights for my pickup.

 

[BeachBoy]

I agree yellow is better than blue, but there is less glare with blue on snow than white.

and when following other trucks on dirt roads, yes you want lens that are VERY strong to rock impact.. maybe not bullets but certainly more strength than what the glass lens offer.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

There might be less glare on snow with blue vs. white because if you put a blue filter over normally white light then you've significantly reduced the amount of light. Your eyes react differently to blue light than they do to red or yellow light, with blue your pupils don't contract nearly as much, therefor letting in more light/glare.

If you have to worry about the trucks in front of you throwing rocks and hitting your vehicle then you're following much too closely anyway. I prefer to give others a good lead on dirt roads just to keep from eating their dust. Even if the Lightforce lights are bulletproof, the rest of your truck is not.

:buddies:

 

[BeachBoy]

There might be less glare on snow with blue vs. white because if you put a blue filter over normally white light then you've significantly reduced the amount of light. Your eyes react differently to blue light than they do to red or yellow light, with blue your pupils don't contract nearly as much, therefor letting in more light/glare.

If you have to worry about the trucks in front of you throwing rocks and hitting your vehicle then you're following much too closely anyway. I prefer to give others a good lead on dirt roads just to keep from eating their dust. Even if the Lightforce lights are bulletproof, the rest of your truck is not.

:buddies:

I totally agree, but here in calgary, they use rock in the winter instead of salt.. and about 50% of windshields are broken on cars (standard insurance don't even cover), that's also why more protction is better. Especially considering the price of off road lights!

and I understand your theory about color. I would not go blue anyway, it still gives the illusion of being "better".

 

[-Virgil-]

Good pick on the lamps, but:

The City Lights should make really good Daytime Running Lights for my pickup.

Nope. "City lights" (properly: front position lamps) are parking lamps…and only parking lamps. They do not produce anywhere near enough light, nor is the light suitably distributed, for a daytime running light function. It's not even close -- front position lamps are limited to 125 candela max, the ones in the Hella 4000s produce about 90 cd peak, and the bare minimum for a minimally-effective DRL is 400 cd. Putting a bulb in the position lamp socket bright enough to achieve 400cd peak would quickly fry the socket, and still wouldn't address the incorrect light distribution for the DRL function. A front position lamp incorporated into a reflector lamp, liket he setup in the Hella 4000, creates a roughly ring-shaped light distribution containing extreme light/dark gradients. A DRL needs to produce a beam similar to that of a turn signal: a generally horizontal ellipse or oblong with no substantial gradients.

If you want to add DRL function to your truck, there are lots of ways to do it. You can get a module that runs the low beams at reduced intensity (not a very good DRL, also a fuel hog). You can wire the low beams plus parking, marker and tail lights to come on with the ignition (not a very good DRL, even bigger fuel hog, shortens bulb life). You can get a module to run the high beams at reduced intensity (not a very good DRL, also screws with the performance of the full-voltage high beams). You can get a module to run the front turn signals steadily except when they're flashing (typical install info here, pretty good DRL, low fuel consumption, uses cheap/long-life bulbs...shop carefully, you can spend $45 or more than double that for equally-dependable modules that do the same thing). You can buy supa-cool LED DRLs that work well and take almost no power to run from Hella or Cibie (discussion here).

 

[-Virgil-]

I understand your theory about color.

Keep in mind it's not "his" theory, it's just physical fact.

it still gives the illusion of being "better".

Yeah, that's a problem: people go for it because they've been told (by advertising/marketing) that it's "better", they think they perceive it as "better", and thus they wind up feeling/thinking they're safer than they actually are. Which is dangerous.

 

[LEDobsession]

I totally agree, but here in calgary, they use rock in the winter instead of salt.. and about 50% of windshields are broken on cars (standard insurance don't even cover), that's also why more protction is better. Especially considering the price of off road lights!

I think one of the biggest things I noticed while I lived in Calgary this summer was that there was a "Windshield Repair" guy on every corner. Well that and Subway but, yeah, for some reason there were a lot of broken windshields.

 

[Sid Post]

Parking lights vs. City lights vs. Daytime Running lights?

The "parking" lights are turned on by the Toyota factory wiring on my pickup when the key is in the ignition. 5W in those big reflectors is going to be more effective then 5W of unfocused orange light IMHO. If I need more then 15W (5W x 3 plus the parking lights) of light I can always use the low beams all time.

 

[-Virgil-]

The "parking" lights are turned on by the Toyota factory wiring on my pickup when the key is in the ignition.

Probably not. DRLs maybe, parking lamps no.

5W in those big reflectors is going to be more effective then 5W of unfocused orange light IMHO.

The city lights are unfocused, because the bulb is several inches off the focal point of the reflector.

 

[Sid Post]

When I get that darned Prerunner Light Bar mounted I can mount my Hella's. I'll try to post some good photo's so we can see whether the Hella's glow very good with those 5W lamps.

 

[leee]

Hella provides the benchmark by which most other lights are measured by.

I've had Hella high beams and was rather disappointed. Currently I have cheap ($23) high beams which don't even have a half-way decent reflector, and they do better than the ones from Hella did.

When Hella says "fog beam" they really do mean fog beam;

Then they must have weird ideas about fog lights. I've also had Hella fog lights, and they sucked. About 20 years ago, I put cheap fog lights on a car I had, and they were useful --- the ones from Hella (about 5 or 6 years ago and about 4 times the price) were useless.

Hella is bragging too much about the quality of their lights, and they're overrated.