Help choosing batteries

[Zippokovich]

Hay guys

I am planning to move from AA to higher powered torches but i don't actually know anything about that batteries so i have a few questions...

1. Can anyone quickly give me the disadvantages of higher powered batteries if i get rechargeables

2. If i get a pricey charger and a set of batteries i want them to be used in any torches i buy in the near future - so should i go for CR123A or 18650? (they are the only two i know). Are CR123A's more commonly used and thus better to get without knowing what torches i might get in future?

3. Can anyone recommend a good charger and set of CR123A's or 18650's

4. Finally what is the charge retention on these higher powered rechargeables when left sitting in a torch unused?

If im talking crap im sorry! But any help would be appreciated.

 

[Dances with Flashlight]

Rechargeable LiIon batteries, such as the 10440, 14500, 16340 (also known as the RCR123-A), 18650, and others offer enhanced performance - but only in flashlights designed for higher voltage and greater heat. Many flashlights will go POOF if stoked with LiIon's. And these batteries also call for special care in charging and use because of potential dangers like fire and explosion. There are many threads and posts here regarding these issues, and these batteries are usually not recommended for novices, so be sure to browse around before making any hasty purchases. One site in particular to check is AW's Lithium Ion sales thread in the Marketplace - AW is highly regarded and has links to some very important safety info.

There are safer chemistries that might be much better for your use.

Actually, however, you might be much better off by first looking at the flashlights that most interest you to see what batteries they will accept. There is a misconception that common old alkalines are past their prime and of no use in today's flashlights. Nothing could be further from the truth. A great many of the very best flashlights perform exceedingly well on alkalines, or rechargeable NiMN's, and many CPF'ers use nothing but these. The latest generation of LED's has given new life to the old AAA and AA alkalines.

Regarding your other questions, different battery chemistries, and different sized batteries, often require different chargers so don't spend anything on a charger before you've settled on batteries. For specific selections, go over the various threads in this forum - there are real experts here who are always a source of good advice.

Good luck.

 

[TakeTheActive]

...I am planning to move from AA to higher powered torches but i don't actually know anything about that batteries so i have a few questions...

Why?

...1. Can anyone quickly give me the disadvantages of higher powered batteries if i get rechargeables...

Unexpected EXPLOSIONS for one... Check the: Smoke and Fire, Hot Cells and Close Calls - The dangerous side of batteries Forum for some examples. (The last one I recall was an explosion on a balcony.)

...If im talking crap im sorry! But any help would be appreciated.

I imagine TONs of folks could give you advice, but, IMHO, if your KNOWLEDGE is low (Join Date: Jun 2010, Posts: 13), I'd spent some time (i.e. at LEAST a few WEEKS!) READING the CPF Archives. Wouldn't you prefer making your OWN *INFORMED* decision rather than following the advice of some stranger? :thinking:

 

[VidPro]

one thing about CR123 rechargables , they dont seem to have enough juice IMO. so when playing with CR123 type lights and going rechargable specifically the capacity of the rechargable versions of those isnt something to write home about. The 18650s on the other hand are packed with power and are not driven as hard (having the power), also are more often used as singles.
if i was rushing to change over to li-ion rechargables specifically (this week), i would lean twards a light item that accepted Primary CR123 x2 AND 18650, because that is much more acceptable power to weight and runtime and longevity and usability ratios TO ME. versitility, light weight, good power in either, good balance of throwaway and recharge.

but as stated never discount the mighty AA Ni_mhy which does a great job, now that they have ones that hold thier power for much longer times. Low Self Discharge.

that would be the quick tips i would put in.

i think CR123 Is still more common even now with many 18650 lights and "both" lights, for the pocket rockets.

li-ion can hold its juice for 6mo easy without even thinking about it, the new LSD ni-mhy can do the same. other issues are some the protection on a li-ion having a very tiny draw (often more than is speced) and some lights having a slight draw on sleep modes (more than specked) but most of the stuff of those 2 chemistry types are awesome in shelf waiting.

a good li-ion can last years and years, but cheap li-ion cell items will die faster than they can sit on a shelf doing nothing, when just waiting. ni-mhy should last at least 2x as long in years when parked doing nothing always.

There is a point where just being parked and ready always , the Primary (non-rechargable) is a better choice, a Price, users Time, maintance point, rechargables will always prefer to be used at least some . use it or lose it. many people have stated once they have the rechargability they then had the freedom to use the item more, so they did use it more.

if the choice is for a completly parked item, might be better to go with LSD Ni-Mhy or even primary still, less issues of any sort to deal with . got kids or wifeys ? can be a reason to just use the power of the ni-mhy. the li-ion does require more care, special charging, and should be monitored for safty purposes, but people already are using them everyday in other devices.

when LSD (ni-mhy) did NOT even exist , I modded for the li-ion (even when it wasnt really used much in lights) because of its power holding capability, today they have LSD ni-mhy and the vast NEED to jump to li-ion to get a light to work 80% 6months later and still be rechargable is not as high. Without thinking (who wants to think) a person could jump into the LSD ni-mhy and be set up with lasting holding power. With some thinking and slight more maintance they can get slightly better with li-ion.

 

[joe1512]

You don't HAVE to get 'better batteries' to get a high performance flashlight.

Some of the lithium ion ones have better energy density, but that isn't that big of a deal.


Do you actually have any good flashlights yet? There are a limited number of cases where you can get a big boost from using a different battery.

For example, in some 1xAA lights, you can replace the 1.5 volt alkaline with a 3.7 Volt 14500 lithium ion. With the increase in voltage, you will get much more output... IF the light can handle the extra voltage. Some can, some cant.



If you are considering a new light, then look at several classes:

2xAA lights: 200 lumens output, decently small size.

1xAA light: 100ish lumens. quite small.

itp A6 Polestar - 6xAAs. 500ish lumens! 3 modes. Big beam. A great light! 80 bucks.

fenix tk40 - 150 bucks. 8xAA. 600ish lumens. balanced beam.

I recommend www.goinggear.com as a great place to look at a variety of lights. Stick with Romisen and itp and fenix lights first as they are the most budget minded.

With some rechargable AAs and a charger, you can use standard batteries (and not have to learn how to keep newfangled ones from blowing up...) and still have solid output.


Since you mentioned it, the AA Sanyo Eneloop is low self discharge. It loses 15% of its charge every year. Compared to normal discharge of about 1% per day with NiMh or NiCad. I would recommend getting some brand new Eneloops to go with whatever light you get.

 

[8Fishes]

If you are curious like I am, I have to let you know that making the move to rechargeable Li-ions can be quite an entry level cost. I got a pila charger that many recommend, (50~ USD), and 'only' 2 AW 18650's at like 15 a pop.

The only thing I can recommend is to make sure and do some proper research in the next few lights you plan to get. I can recommend the 4seven's quarks because they tend to be more modular and more accepting of different voltages. Their single cell lights can usually take the li-ion cell equivalent size (AA == 14500, AAA = 10440).

I do believe that 123's are still more popular compared to 18650 cells, but I can be wrong with that.

 

[cottonpickers]

As others have said, take your time and do plenty of reading. Its more fun that way.

The flashlight will drive the battery choice.

Used carefully, li-ion should be fine. AW are a recommended brand. For a first light I would get a single cell light.

Enjoy!

 

[Vortus]

Advice from a newbie to a newbie

Figure out what you want and what it will be used for. Then Find a light you like that meets them. Pretty much all of them are reviewed on CPF at one time or another. As mentioned, stick to single cell to start. Once you find the light, then research all the data on the light. Reviews, problems, battery type and related data about the batteries and chargers. ESP stuff about care and maintenance.

My wifes list when we got our Lion light

1 light
2 batteries
1 battery holder
1 charger
1 cleaning/lube kit (make your self)
1 small multimeter. A good one is best but cheap is better than nothing. To check batteries.

 

[Battery Guy]

You may want to check out the AA Ragone plot thread, where the power and energy characteristics of several different AA chemistries are compared.

An interesting thing to notice is that lithium ion is not the best rechargeable if you are strictly looking at total energy or total power. For total energy, the Sanyo 2700mAh is best, and it even beats the lithium-ion on power (although just barely). For total power, the NiZn is top of the stack. Note that if we were taking the weight of the battery into consideration (i.e. specific energy), then the lithium-ion would come out on top because it is lighter than the rest.

Higher voltage cells like lithium-ion are nice to run high power systems because you don't need to put as many cells in series to get to high voltages, and the higher the voltage, the lower the current you need for an equivalent power output. Lower current is nice because you don't need to worry so much about switch resistance, contact resistance, etc.... But as mentioned, charging series strings of lithium-ion cells must be done with extreme care, and it is not usually as easy as it is with NiMH cells.

So, it depends greatly on the flashlight you want to power and what you are willing to live with for cycle life, self discharge, temperature stability, ease of charging, cost, etc...

Cheers,
Battery Guy

 

[pobox1475]

Can anyone recommend a good charger and set of CR123A's or 18650's

Pila IBC. MAHA C9000 if you go with NiMH AA cells.