Help with offroad setup

[nucleamonkey]

I have searched & searched, and figured I'd see what you guys recommended for an offroad lighting setup. First off, I am not racing Baja - so I will not be running 100 mph in the dark. It will be to light up trails (far would be nice too) and wide as to get an appropriate idea of the terrain & surroundings. Back in '98 I had a Discovery with 7 Hella 4000's (2 corners & 2 pencil on roof rack, 2 corners and pencil on brush guard). That's pretty much my extent with lighting. My current setup is a Defender with a roof rack. I am looking for two lights for the brush guard and something for the roof rack. Currently there are 4 Hella 3000's on the rack that are probably 14 years old and are hardly noticeable when turned on.
I was playing with the idea of 2 Hella 4000i Xenon driving lights on the brush guard, but wasn't sure if that was the best use of $$. It seems like lots of people like the LED bars for racks, but at $700 each for 20" rigid bars, it seems like a bit much. Any suggestions for the right combination? Thanks so much in advance - any help at all would be greatly appreciated!!

Cheers!

Aaron

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Welcome to CFP!

First off, get what you already have in proper working order. If your current Hellas are barely noticeable, there is something wrong. Check voltage drop at the bulbs themselves, and check the bulbs. My guess is that after 14 years of corrosion and with wiring that may not have been adequate to begin with, your lamps are not being properly fed. If the lamps themselves are in good shape, then new proper-gauge wiring and fresh bulbs will greatly help them.

 

[CamoNinja]

Get the smaller Rigids.

 

[nucleamonkey]

Welcome to CFP!

First off, get what you already have in proper working order. If your current Hellas are barely noticeable, there is something wrong. Check voltage drop at the bulbs themselves, and check the bulbs. My guess is that after 14 years of corrosion and with wiring that may not have been adequate to begin with, your lamps are not being properly fed. If the lamps themselves are in good shape, then new proper-gauge wiring and fresh bulbs will greatly help them.

Thanks!! Of all of the options... I don't really know why I didn't think of that one. I've always wanted the HID's (couldn't afford them 14 years ago) and so naturally assumed I'd put them on the brush guard. Then I started doing the math and the dollar signs just kept adding up and wanted to make sure I was making the most use out of the money to be spent.

As for the Rigid's... are you saying for the roof rack? How small are you referring to, and how many? Most of what I've read is that LED's are great for lighting near and wide (similar to a fog?) and that the HID's for a bit more distance... Does this sound about right?

Cheers!
Aaron

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Another possibility, very strictly for OFFROAD USE ONLY, and several members will cringe when I mention this.........

Is cheap HID kits in cheap halogen housings.

Like I said, OFFROAD USE ONLY.

You'll get a whole hell of a lot of light in a vaguely forward direction with spotty reliability. But it'll be a lot of light and it'll be cheap. OFFROAD USE ONLY. Seriously. Under no circumstances whatsoever should these lights ever be used on the street or where they will impact anyone driving on the street.

Reliability can be increased somewhat by using OEM ballasts from a vehicle factory equipped with HID's, but HID capsules epoxied to an H-whatever halogen base will still be a step above trash.

 

[nucleamonkey]

That's an interesting idea - what would the light pattern be? - Maybe for the roof rack? Also, any real world description of the effective difference with a Hella Xenon Driving light vs their Fog light for the front bumper?

For what it's worth, all of the above referenced lights will be for offroad use only. I live in Miami, where you really don't need headlights at all!

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Also, any real world description of the effective difference with a Hella Xenon Driving light vs their Fog light for the front bumper?

There is a huge difference between a fog lamp and an auxiliary high beam driving lamp, if each are even close to having been built according to the proper specification for each of the two lamps.

A fog lamp projects a very wide and short beam which enables you to pick out the edges of the road and the road markings despite heavy fog, and is suited to very slow driving. An auxiliary high beam driving lamp is pretty much the opposite of that, and is designed for higher speed driving in the absence of fog.

 

[nucleamonkey]

A fog lamp projects a very wide and short beam which enables you to pick out the edges of the road and the road markings despite heavy fog, and is suited to very slow driving. An auxiliary high beam driving lamp is pretty much the opposite of that, and is designed for higher speed driving in the absence of fog.

This is kind of where my problem is stemming from. If the objective is to light up both Far and Wide, which lights should go where? Is it smarter to run two Driving lights on the bumper for the "far", and use the lights on the rack for the "wide"? Or is the resulting beam from two high quality fog lights on the bumper enough light for trail riding (30 mph and under)? I don't need to see 4 miles down the road like I am shining a spotlight on something. I think the best illustration of what I am talking about is on Rigid's website where you "mouseover" the picture to see the diference in lighting: http://www.rigidindustries.com/Off-Road-LED-Light-Bars-s/64.htm While I know this is exaggerated and used as a marketing ploy, it still illustrates what I am trying to accomplish.

Thanks so much in advance - all the help / suggestions are greatly appreciated!!

 

[TheExpert]

The thing about Rigid is that you never have to worry about them breaking, check out their destructive testing! And since they are led they are more efficient. The only downside currently is that the Rigid will not throw as far as hid lights currently. But if you are just hitting the trails at a slower speed crawling and what not these would be the best bet IMO.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

The OFFROAD ONLY HID kit in halogen lights won't have any beam pattern to speak of, any engineering for a beam pattern(if there was any to start with) disappears when the HID kit is installed. Like I said, just a whole hell of a lot of light in a forward direction. You might have better luck with maintaining some kind of beam pattern by using a projector, but getting a decent beam pattern out of an HID retrofitted halogen light is like trying to paint the Sistine Chapel with a paintball gun at long range. It ain't gonna work well.

If the Rigids will work for you, I would go that route. Spend the money, buy it right the first time, and be done with it.

 

[TheExpert]

Diesel Bomber- I really like that Sistine Chapel paintball gun analogy, really mad me laugh.

 

[nucleamonkey]

but getting a decent beam pattern out of an HID retrofitted halogen light is like trying to paint the Sistine Chapel with a paintball gun at long range. It ain't gonna work well.

I think that's one of the best analogies i've yet to read on a forum! :grin2:

I spoke with a couple of vendors who carry pretty much all of the major brands in some version or another (so less biased than most), and they are all pretty much echoing what's being said here... Rigids for the rack, maybe a pair of HID's for the bumper - although I heard good things about Hella's new LED - may be something to consider once I hear how it stacks up to their HID's.

Thanks so much for the help - you guys are awesome over here!!

Cheers!

Aaron

 

[707electrician]

HID retrofitted halogens actually work pretty well. I have 4 hella 500's with cheap plug and play HIDs in them and they give me a lot of light and an acceptable beam

 

[calflash]

I think the best illustration of what I am talking about is on Rigid's website where you "mouseover" the picture to see the diference in lighting: http://www.rigidindustries.com/Off-Road-LED-Light-Bars-s/64.htm While I know this is exaggerated and used as a marketing ploy, it still illustrates what I am trying to accomplish.

Thanks so much in advance - all the help / suggestions are greatly appreciated!!

The comparison is actually pretty real-life. It may not be fair since they are comparing their 50" light to one or two cheap HID's but that 50" light is incredible. I have a 30" version. It has excellent throw - easily better than stock high beams. The flood is equally impressive although it wouldn't hurt my feelings if the flood was wider on my light. But what I really find useful is how TALL the flood is. You can see that in the mouseover - look at the tops of the trees that are visible. I never would have thought that this was so useful. When I go down a hill, I can see the flats below. When I am on the flats, I can see up the hill I am charging toward. Headlights and a lot of other spotlights on the other hand are really only good for the same plane of travel as your vehicle. I am 100% happy with the purchase of Rigid lights. I bet you will be too - if you go that route. (Not to mention they are super easy to mount... and nearly bullet proof as mentioned above!)

 

[Hilldweller]

I have a pair of cheap-n-stinky HIDx lights that put out a wide/bright offroad pattern; I had them on the front of the Jeep before I went LED-crazy. I got them from RDM Offroad.

The problem you have with the roofrack is that you'll get light splashing on the hood if you bugger the lights with HID retrofits or choose the wrong beam pattern. I'd put a pair of pencil-beams in the center and maybe a pair of Euro-beams on the outsides (aimed out and down a little).
What's the alternator output on the Defender? You have to keep that in mind too. Old British steel isn't well-known for electronic prowess...

Nice to see you on this forum, btw.
You should come up for Country Fried Weekend in January.