High CRI LED vs. Good Incan?

[bmcgators98]

So I really want another HDS light. I have been looking at the High CRI. I currently have a Custom 170 Clicky. My question is how does a LED with a high CRI compare to an quality incan? I have looked the beam shots of the HDS but they are were compared to other LEDs. How would a p60 incan look in comparison?

Thanks

 

[Chucula]

I was going to post the same question---How does SSC P4 high cri compares to a stock P60?

 

[abarth_1200]

I was out taking more beamshots last night and messed them up, i got a new camera and forget to set WB, but the incan P60 has no where near as much flood or illuminating power, the P60 just threw a very small spot on the trees about 100 yards away, my High Cri Clicky managed to light up the surrounding 60 yards and put a bigger spot on the tree, It really blew the P60 away even with the fact that it was an incan, tint was very orange (batteries had about 10 mins runtime already) and dull looking compared to the High Cri

I am wanting to get some good beamshots, maybe later tonight, it doesnt get dark for another 2 hours, with fresh batteries and WB set to daylight.

 

[flashfiend]

Similar question but different LED. How does the sst-90 3000k (CRI 83) compare to the incans. I didn't like the tint of a Mac EDC sst-50 4500k (I assume CRI 70) and those LEDs are considered warm. Indeed the color seemed warmer but the light brownish tint didn't really seem to increase the color rendition. Those w/ the sst-90 3000k please reply and post (w/ beamshots comparing it with incan if possible). Thanks

 

[abarth_1200]

I wouldnt know but the Seoul P4 High Cri has a rating of 93 which is pretty high, the lower the temp the warmer it looks it doesnt mean it will have a higher cri

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

The High-CRI P4's would rate about halfway between a P60 lamp and a stock WC-bin (cool and almost bluish) Cree in my book. I actually prefer them to incans because they don't tend to color everything orangish-yellow like an incan tends to. I'd say they're about even for rendering colors with a standard-output incan, and just a hair less accurate than a very-high-output incan.

I'd put the Nichia H1 High-CRI offerings above pretty much everything but the sun itself.

 

[pjandyho]

If you are comparing high CRI to incand, theoretically incand wins by providing a CRI of 100 but that is in theory. In the actual practical part, I find that not all incand gives you nice natural colors. I have been comparing all my incands to the high CRI for the pass one month and I realized that some incand burns whiter than others, even for the same model. Here are some examples based on all the Surefires I have,

1. P60 (3 units) - one seem to burn whiter than the other two but all three still looks a little orangey compared to high CRI. High CRI wins in brightness, color rendition, and efficiency.

2. P61 (2 units) - both burns whiter than any of my incands and produces very nice and natural colors and if I have to give an opinion I'd say they look better than the high CRI. The drawback is that they burn up two batteries in max 20 mins. High CRI wins only in efficiency.

3. MN10 & MN11- for SF M3. Both looks orangey but still produces very faithful colors, especially the MN11. Better than high CRI in my opinion. It's hard to pick a winner here. High CRI wins in efficiency definitely. Even though the incands here looks orangey but there's something about the MN10 & MN11's power output that seems to offset the orangey cast.

4. MN16 - for use with KT4 turbo head on my M3. Surprisingly orangey. More orangey than MN11 which is also rated at 225 lumens. Prefer high CRI if comparing colors but this light gives out raw power and throw.

In my opinion, color wise I find the incand sandwiched between the XP-G warm white (example will be those offered by 4sevens on the limited run) and the SSC high CRI, the high CRI being the coolest of all. Which is better is hard to quantify. Like the saying goes, one man's food is another man's poison. YMMV. Much as I like incand for it's faithful colors I also recognize that we are in a transition period whereby LEDs are getting better and better, in tint, efficiency, as well as power. I say ditch the incand and go high CRI. You wouldn't miss anything.

 

[ebow86]

No high CRI LED can achieve the color rendition of the best incan's right now, but they are getting better. It is possible that though due to the nature of LED's they may never be able to match an incandescent's color rendition although they may come close, only time will tell. Don't forget that incan's add a sense of depth to whatever your viewing, something an LED can't no matter how high the CRI.

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

Perhaps that is true if you're comparing the best incans to a High-CRI LED, but generally speaking, the incans in flashlights are not what you would call the "best".

High-CRI emitters do in fact add a sense of depth to what you are viewing in my experience. Compared to almost all of the incans I have used, they provide a better sense of depth than the incans in most situations.

To get that benefit though, you need true High-CRI emitters, not just neutral or warm tint emitters, which are not necessarily high-CRI.

 

[pjandyho]

No high CRI LED can achieve the color rendition of the best incan's right now, but they are getting better. It is possible that though due to the nature of LED's they may never be able to match an incandescent's color rendition although they may come close, only time will tell. Don't forget that incan's add a sense of depth to whatever your viewing, something an LED can't no matter how high the CRI.

I fully agree with you except the last sentence. Not that I disagree but rather I believe it is possible when technology improve. I am not sure if you have the limited warm white runs from 4sevens but I have a 123^2 turbo and though the warm whites are not quite what an incand produces in terms of depth and contrast, I would say they are almost there. Only time & technology will tell.

 

[ebow86]

Perhaps that is true if you're comparing the best incans to a High-CRI LED, but generally speaking, the incans in flashlights are not what you would call the "best".

High-CRI emitters do in fact add a sense of depth to what you are viewing in my experience. Compared to almost all of the incans I have used, they provide a better sense of depth than the incans in most situations.

To get that benefit though, you need true High-CRI emitters, not just neutral or warm tint emitters, which are not necessarily high-CRI.

Ok, not sure I understand you here. "the incans in flashlights are not what you would call the "best". The incans in flashlights?

And I have to respectfuly disagree with your statement about high CRI emitters being superior in depth compared to incandescents. I mean, that could be true but it really depends on the lights you are compairing. A high cri led vs a maglite, then yes I could see your point but, In my limited experience with high CRI LEDS, the tint of these lights is indeed closer to incan but in my mind the depth is still not there, I still consider the best incans to still have the superior depth. Just for the record when I say "best incans" I'm refering to the surefire lights like the M3, M6, A2 aviaitor, 10X dominator, etc.

 

[LuxLuthor]

Since I have at least a hundred top Incan setups, what is the best (quality) & highest CRI LED complete setup and I'll consider buying it and give you a completely objective comparison. I know about the high quality Ra model, but not sure it is necessarily the best (i.e. vs. Nichia H1 assembled into a quality 100+ "Lumen" light).

You certainly cannot use a K-Mart Everready 2D cell flashlight or stock Maglite as your comparison basis.

 

[ebow86]

Since I have at least a hundred top Incan setups, what is the best (quality) & highest CRI LED complete setup and I'll consider buying it and give you a completely objective comparison. I know about the high quality Ra model, but not sure it is necessarily the best (i.e. vs. Nichia H1 assembled into a quality 100+ "Lumen" light).

You certainly cannot use a K-Mart Everready 2D cell flashlight or stock Maglite as your comparison basis.

No "test or compairson" can truly reveal how our eyes perceive the light in front of us. That why no test can show the "depth" of incandescents vs LED's we are talking about here. Only the user can percieve these qualitys, that's something a camera or light meter can't see or understand, only the human eye. So it's in this sense that no test can truly close the debate. Just MHO.

 

[Hellbore]

...Don't forget that incan's add a sense of depth to whatever your viewing, something an LED can't no matter how high the CRI.

No "test or compairson" can truly reveal how our eyes perceive the light in front of us. That why no test can show the "depth" of incandescents vs LED's we are talking about here. Only the user can percieve these qualitys, that's something a camera or light meter can't see or understand, only the human eye. So it's in this sense that no test can truly close the debate. Just MHO.

So even if an LED had a CRI of 100, there are "qualitys" which can't be measured that make the incandescent light better? How convenient. No one can argue with something that can't be measured, proven, or disproven.

 

[ebow86]

So even if an LED had a CRI of 100, there are "qualitys" which can't be measured that make the incandescent light better? How convenient. No one can argue with something that can't be measured, proven, or disproven.

No. Your misunderstanding. Explain to me how one can measure "depth" when using a flashlight? Is there some type of special camera or something? No, only the human eye can see these "qualties" I'm talking about. Your twisting what I'm saying.

 

[Hellbore]

No. Your misunderstanding. Explain to me how one can measure "depth" when using a flashlight?

I can't explain it, it's your metric not mine, if anything you should explain it since you're the one claiming incans have more of it.

Besides, you say that regardless of the CRI, incans will always look better. How do you know there is more to it than CRI? How many LEDs have you seen that have a CRI of 100? (like a good incan) I don't think any exist. You've never seen one, neither have any of us, so you don't know if LEDs would look the same to you or not, under those circumstances.

 

[ebow86]

I can't explain it, it's your metric not mine. If anything you would have to explain to ME what "depth" means to you.

Good, now your getting the point. These things really can't be measured in any way, it how our eyes percieve them. How can I explain depth, I can't, but I know what my eyes see. My point is this, one can do a scientific test and show how a high CRI led is acheiving the same color rendition and lumens output as a compairable incandescent, using the same voltage and even the same reflector. Now compair those 2 flashlight's against one another, the light from both suddenly appear different. Wait a minute, the test shows the same amount of lumens and CRI, yet the light emitting from both shows different "qualitys". See what I'm saying here?

 

[Hellbore]

Good, now your getting the point. These things really can't be measured in any way, it how our eyes percieve them. How can I explain depth, I can't, but I know what my eyes see. My point is this, one can do a scientific test and show how a high CRI led is acheiving the same color rendition and lumens output as a compairable incandescent, using the same voltage and even the same reflector. Now compair those 2 flashlight's against one another, the light from both suddenly appear different. Wait a minute, the test shows the same amount of lumens and CRI, yet the light emitting from both shows different "qualitys". See what I'm saying here?

And you've performed the test you describe here? What high CRI LED was it? What was the CRI rating of the incan? What about the color temperatures of the 2 lights and the lumens they were outputting? I'm very interested in this test.

 

[ebow86]

I didn't say I ever did a compairson. My last post was a hypothotical compairson to try and prove a point. When did I say that high CRI's will never look as good as incandescent's? Could you kindly point out the post? I said might not ever, I never said they never will, big difference.

 

[pjandyho]

I can't explain it, it's your metric not mine, if anything you should explain it since you're the one claiming incans have more of it.

I agree with ebow86. Or rather I understand where he is coming from. There really isn't any scientific means to measure depth perception on any particular lights be it incands or LEDs. No way. Depth perception is very personal and individualistic, if that is the right word. Everyone perceives things differently, just like some prefer cool white and some prefer warm white, likewise some will perceive more depth using an incand while others fail to see a difference at all. However one may still make a study by comparing both side by side to come up with a final conclusion. You can't really quantify depth perception. It's a feeling, it's the zen of flasholism.