How does this work?
- Thread starter Goldigger
- Start date
gcbryan
Flashlight Enthusiast
Do you have a link to more info regarding this product in English?
Packhorse
Flashlight Enthusiast
Looks like it has a LED at the top of the test tube that projects into a reflector that then reflects the light back into the larger reflector that is adjustable giving adjustable focus.
If you look at a 21w Salvo/ Halcyon the HID is in a test tube and uses a similar system except no small front reflector because it does not require one due to the large angle of light emmision ( 360 odd degrees).
The LED system seems to copy the principle to try and achieve the forseeability.
For it to be on par with a 21w HID I would guess it would require a very powerful LED as I would think it would be a rather inefficient system with 2 reflectors where one is partially blocked.
If you look at a 21w Salvo/ Halcyon the HID is in a test tube and uses a similar system except no small front reflector because it does not require one due to the large angle of light emmision ( 360 odd degrees).
The LED system seems to copy the principle to try and achieve the forseeability.
For it to be on par with a 21w HID I would guess it would require a very powerful LED as I would think it would be a rather inefficient system with 2 reflectors where one is partially blocked.
you can read about it here...
http://www.direxplorers.com/special...on-dive-light-diving-innovations-repairs.html
Packhorse from what i can gather it only uses about 1.2 amps..burntime with a 9amp battery is 8.5..hours
I've read the whole thread so no need to explain the idea of what the product is for, im just interested how it works and if the quoted lumens/brightness is real..
I'm not sure this pic is the same, i think its a cheap copy..the testtube part is different as the end is completely clear.
over sized hot linked image deleted.
http://www.direxplorers.com/special...on-dive-light-diving-innovations-repairs.html
Packhorse from what i can gather it only uses about 1.2 amps..burntime with a 9amp battery is 8.5..hours
I've read the whole thread so no need to explain the idea of what the product is for, im just interested how it works and if the quoted lumens/brightness is real..
I'm not sure this pic is the same, i think its a cheap copy..the testtube part is different as the end is completely clear.
over sized hot linked image deleted.
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Packhorse
Flashlight Enthusiast
Sorry I dont get you, You asked how does this work and I tried to explain.
If you wanted to know if it really is as bright as a 21w HID then you would need to supply more information like the type of LED and how its driven. Or ask someone who has had both side by side.
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gcbryan
Flashlight Enthusiast
For anyone interested in more info regarding this light I think this is the better link:
http://www.tillytec.de/de/produkte/dir-light/aton-1-led-light.html
It's basically a 1,000 lumen 1.4 A single emitter using a recoil design in part.
No one is really implying it is just like a 21W HID but depending on use it's sort of in the ballpark but of course still not as tightly focused and without quite the throw. It has the advantages of LED's obviously so it really depends on the user and their needs.
It's about $860 so not cheap of course.
http://www.tillytec.de/de/produkte/dir-light/aton-1-led-light.html
It's basically a 1,000 lumen 1.4 A single emitter using a recoil design in part.
No one is really implying it is just like a 21W HID but depending on use it's sort of in the ballpark but of course still not as tightly focused and without quite the throw. It has the advantages of LED's obviously so it really depends on the user and their needs.
It's about $860 so not cheap of course.
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GCBRYAN,
Ist post on http://www.direxplorers.com/specialist-dir-kit/7630-new-dimension-dive-light-diving-innovations-repairs.html states The brightness is equivalent to a 18W HID light.
Also the link taken form the url above which you posted http://www.tillytec.de/de/produkte/dir-light/aton-1-led-light.html also states:
Aton 1 LED light has the same light power and beam angle as HID 24.
How is that not implying the led is comparable to hid?
These figures and claimes are for the aton 1 there is now the aton 2 which is apparently brighter....which maybe why the comparison on the tillytec site states HID 24 rather than the 18W HID light on post 1..
Cheers..
Ist post on http://www.direxplorers.com/specialist-dir-kit/7630-new-dimension-dive-light-diving-innovations-repairs.html states The brightness is equivalent to a 18W HID light.
Also the link taken form the url above which you posted http://www.tillytec.de/de/produkte/dir-light/aton-1-led-light.html also states:
Aton 1 LED light has the same light power and beam angle as HID 24.
How is that not implying the led is comparable to hid?
These figures and claimes are for the aton 1 there is now the aton 2 which is apparently brighter....which maybe why the comparison on the tillytec site states HID 24 rather than the 18W HID light on post 1..
Cheers..
Yes you are right I would like to now how it works which you rightfully tried.
I just didn't want anybody to put any info of this thread and all links in it.
http://www.direxplorers.com/special...-dive-light-diving-innovations-repairs-4.html
I've read them over and over to see if i missed anything...
When i posted i dont want to know what the idea of this product is for, i was refering to the fact that its designed to be used as an upgrade to led for DIR lights thats use HID..
What I/we still dont know is which led is being used and how the testtube is constructed..etc
:)
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video link..
http://silt-out.blogspot.com/
http://vimeo.com/7623879
Pretty impressive beam i think.. around 3 mins on the video
http://silt-out.blogspot.com/
http://vimeo.com/7623879
Pretty impressive beam i think.. around 3 mins on the video
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here's my crudely edited image..
Here you can see how it works, mirror/reflector shaped to a point from the end of the test tube to the front of the led. Also looks like the led has no dome, so maybe something like a edipower 20watt..
Here you can see how it works, mirror/reflector shaped to a point from the end of the test tube to the front of the led. Also looks like the led has no dome, so maybe something like a edipower 20watt..
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wquiles
Flashaholic
The "module" does look really interesting :thumbsup:
One of the links also quoted:
*********************************
"The single opto semi conductor is driven with 125% of its standard current supply.
The conductor is selected and gives out balanced daylight spread (5600K).
There is no chance of over heat due to endless heatsink."
*********************************
It would be interesting to know more about the LED, and since it is slightly over-driven, and since the 12 volt packs can be about 14V hot from the charger, I will assume that they are using a current driver in there set to 1.4A with a nominal voltage of 12V, so that would be 16.8 watts going into the LED module, if I assume a good driver with 90% efficiency, that would be about 15 watts as the output of the driver going into the LED, but without knowing more about the LED itself, I can only guess something like this:
- vf = 3.7 volts
- LED current = 4 amps
or
- vf = 3.4 volts
- LED current = 4.4 amps
or who knows :confused:
As to the statement:
*********************************
"The lightbeam is a concentrated spot.
The brightness is equivalent to a 18W HID light."
*********************************
That is a fairly wide statement, open to interpretation, and it makes you wonder if it the statement was:
- subjective based on actual use under water
- measured in lumens (total output - requires integrating sphere) or
- in lux, which just measures the intensity of the middle, brightest part of the beam - easily done with a handheld meter.
My guess is that they are measuring the lux at the brightest setting possible, at a tight focus as they say above, since one of the links had somebody holding a lux meter against a wall.
Something like the new SST-50 puts out close to 1000 lumens at 5Amps, so maybe they are using one? It would sure be nice to learn more about the specific LED they are using :D
Will
One of the links also quoted:
*********************************
"The single opto semi conductor is driven with 125% of its standard current supply.
The conductor is selected and gives out balanced daylight spread (5600K).
There is no chance of over heat due to endless heatsink."
*********************************
It would be interesting to know more about the LED, and since it is slightly over-driven, and since the 12 volt packs can be about 14V hot from the charger, I will assume that they are using a current driver in there set to 1.4A with a nominal voltage of 12V, so that would be 16.8 watts going into the LED module, if I assume a good driver with 90% efficiency, that would be about 15 watts as the output of the driver going into the LED, but without knowing more about the LED itself, I can only guess something like this:
- vf = 3.7 volts
- LED current = 4 amps
or
- vf = 3.4 volts
- LED current = 4.4 amps
or who knows :confused:
As to the statement:
*********************************
"The lightbeam is a concentrated spot.
The brightness is equivalent to a 18W HID light."
*********************************
That is a fairly wide statement, open to interpretation, and it makes you wonder if it the statement was:
- subjective based on actual use under water
- measured in lumens (total output - requires integrating sphere) or
- in lux, which just measures the intensity of the middle, brightest part of the beam - easily done with a handheld meter.
My guess is that they are measuring the lux at the brightest setting possible, at a tight focus as they say above, since one of the links had somebody holding a lux meter against a wall.
Something like the new SST-50 puts out close to 1000 lumens at 5Amps, so maybe they are using one? It would sure be nice to learn more about the specific LED they are using :D
Will
There is also the Edipower 15w 900lumens 12volt VF..
datasheet here..
http://www.led-tech.de/produkt-pdf/edison/edipower.pdf
I dont think its a SST-50 as the led testtube only draws 1.6amps post 77 http://www.direxplorers.com/special...-dive-light-diving-innovations-repairs-8.html and looking at the picture of the testtube the led appears to have no dome..
datasheet here..
http://www.led-tech.de/produkt-pdf/edison/edipower.pdf
I dont think its a SST-50 as the led testtube only draws 1.6amps post 77 http://www.direxplorers.com/special...-dive-light-diving-innovations-repairs-8.html and looking at the picture of the testtube the led appears to have no dome..
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wquiles
Flashaholic
At this point it could be this LED. Wish we knew what they are using.
Goldigger3217203 said:
If there is no driver, and it is indeed a Direct Drive solution, then yes, the current entering the module from the battery pack would be the same current reaching the LED. But since we don't know what LED or what driver (if any) is being used, we can't know for sure what current is reaching the LED.
But, if they are using a regulator, then all bets are off, and they could (like my example above) be using an LED with a low vf - the regulator would take care of giving the LED the right amount of current, but still be drawing a lot less current from the battery source.
Power to LED = vf of LED (we don't have this value) * Current to LED (we don't have this value - although they say it is 125% over nominal current value)
Power to LED = Input power (or power from battery pack) - Power loss at regulator (good regulators are around 90% efficiency)
The only thing we know for sure the input power to the module: Current (1.4 Amps) * Voltage (12 volts).
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lucca brassi
Enlightened
Did you see or read may article on:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=246134&page=2 #60 .... and look date :ironic:
At the direxpolrers site I have writen some thoughts (from#31,62 9, that are very clear that lamp caled Aton have some serious problems about transfering heat (that's why Anton II) away I have also give some solution that I'm trying to bring it in to the life by myself. (BTW :Rays on the picture are in the focus parallel ) . Instead of 3 P7 I'll try to install single SST90.
Happy new year to all here ! Malta I'm cooming
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=246134&page=2 #60 .... and look date :ironic:
At the direxpolrers site I have writen some thoughts (from#31,62 9, that are very clear that lamp caled Aton have some serious problems about transfering heat (that's why Anton II) away I have also give some solution that I'm trying to bring it in to the life by myself. (BTW :Rays on the picture are in the focus parallel ) . Instead of 3 P7 I'll try to install single SST90.
Happy new year to all here ! Malta I'm cooming
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I emailed Marcel who manufactures the aton light head, details below..
Hi Marcel,
I came across your new aton light heads http://www.direxplorers.com/specialist-dir-kit/7630-new-dimension-dive-light-diving-innovations-repairs.html and to be honest I’m very interested but I would like to know more as there is limited information at present.
1. How many Lumens does the aton1 and aton2 produce? >>> ATON I does approx. 1200 lumen / 22.000 l/m- ATON II is brighter-details will be public on BOOT show
2. Which LED are you using? ATON I uses the Ostar.
3. How much current and voltage does the test tube LED need? So I can workout battery runtimes form the selection of packs that I have spare. >>>Current draw is 1,5A.
4. Is there any controlling electronics? If so what benefits does it provide?>>> Yes of course. The electronic dropps down the amp supply to the led when your battery is empty. So the light is not switching off, like HID. The diver can indicate the end of burntime if the light gets less bright. It starts flickering before the battery can get hurt.
a. Is there only one power level?>>> Yes, horgathian like.
b. Does it shutoff when the battery pack is low to avoid damaging the batteries?>>> Answered previously
c. When it reaches low voltage does the led step down to a lower level to give more light instead of shutting off completely?
d. Thermal cutoff if the led gets to hot?>>> Not necessary.The construction allows even on land overheat.
Hi Marcel,
I came across your new aton light heads http://www.direxplorers.com/specialist-dir-kit/7630-new-dimension-dive-light-diving-innovations-repairs.html and to be honest I’m very interested but I would like to know more as there is limited information at present.
1. How many Lumens does the aton1 and aton2 produce? >>> ATON I does approx. 1200 lumen / 22.000 l/m- ATON II is brighter-details will be public on BOOT show
2. Which LED are you using? ATON I uses the Ostar.
3. How much current and voltage does the test tube LED need? So I can workout battery runtimes form the selection of packs that I have spare. >>>Current draw is 1,5A.
4. Is there any controlling electronics? If so what benefits does it provide?>>> Yes of course. The electronic dropps down the amp supply to the led when your battery is empty. So the light is not switching off, like HID. The diver can indicate the end of burntime if the light gets less bright. It starts flickering before the battery can get hurt.
a. Is there only one power level?>>> Yes, horgathian like.
b. Does it shutoff when the battery pack is low to avoid damaging the batteries?>>> Answered previously
c. When it reaches low voltage does the led step down to a lower level to give more light instead of shutting off completely?
d. Thermal cutoff if the led gets to hot?>>> Not necessary.The construction allows even on land overheat.
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gcbryan
Flashlight Enthusiast
When I said no one was implying that it was just like a 21W HID I was referring to the several people who had directly tested the light underwater and in comparison with a 21 W HID in that thread.
No one said it was directly comparable or rather everyone said it was not.
No one said it was directly comparable or rather everyone said it was not.
gcbryan
Flashlight Enthusiast
I think it's a nice light. I don't have a 21W HID and I dive with people who have them all the time.
I either dive with a 10W HID or a MC-E. I can signal and I can see my beam. I'm diving in conditions much like yours.
I don't cave dive however so I can't comment on that or wreck penetrations.
I either dive with a 10W HID or a MC-E. I can signal and I can see my beam. I'm diving in conditions much like yours.
I don't cave dive however so I can't comment on that or wreck penetrations.
wquiles
Flashaholic
So there "is" a driver being used, and it is a "smart" one since it monitors battery voltage and can signal the diver of a low battery condition . This means that until we know the vf and/or specific LED we will not know more about how much current is actually reaching the LED.
It would be good to know which specifc Ostar LED is being used and the vf for that particular LED - Ostar makes LOTs of LED's:
http://catalog.osram-os.com/catalogue/catalogue.do?favOid=000000010001fefb00550023&act=showBookmark
Will
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