Ninja
Newly Enlightened
Looking for a tacical flashlight. How many lumens is too much?? I wanna stun someone and take away thier nv but I dont want to take mine away if the light bounces off the walls and back at me. Comments?
How many lumens is too much?
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glockboy
Flashlight Enthusiast
60 lumens is enough too blind a person is the dark.
I think a 7C Maglite, turned off and swung hard, is the best flashlight for stunning someone without losing your night vision.
The light you're looking for doesn't exist; many, indeed most, flashlights are bright enough to ruin your night vision, and that of anyone in whose eyes you shine it, but not bright enough to have a substantial stunning effect.
If I were to build a light with that goal, it would be a minimum of 1000 lm, strobe only, and would be interfaced to LCD shutter goggles. (And I'd call it a Neuralyser, yes.) AFAIK, no such backsplash-limiting light systems exist, so anything stun-capable will poleax your nightvision.
What you would need for that is a high power laser.
Blasting someone with any light when their eyes are night adjusted will dazzle them (try sitting in a dark room then shining an E01 in your eyes, its more than enough). Obviously 100 or even 200 lumen is way more than enough to make them shield their face/look away.
Look at everything else and your lumen amount is almost an after thought in a good tactical light, especially when it comes to the whole "dazzle the bad guy" factor - all modern ones put out more than enough and if you are in the territory of you being dazzled from the light bouncing back then you are no longer looking at tactical lights.
I specify dazzle because it will take away your night vision to some degree however bright/dim the light is.
Basically, the point of a tac light, as i understand it as someone with only a passing knowledge of them, is to light up the area you are shooting at. Being able to gain a second or two of advantage is just a natural side effect and as far as im aware strobe doesnt actually have much advantage than high beam except it can be off putting to you as well as them.
Blasting someone with any light when their eyes are night adjusted will dazzle them (try sitting in a dark room then shining an E01 in your eyes, its more than enough). Obviously 100 or even 200 lumen is way more than enough to make them shield their face/look away.
Look at everything else and your lumen amount is almost an after thought in a good tactical light, especially when it comes to the whole "dazzle the bad guy" factor - all modern ones put out more than enough and if you are in the territory of you being dazzled from the light bouncing back then you are no longer looking at tactical lights.
I specify dazzle because it will take away your night vision to some degree however bright/dim the light is.
Basically, the point of a tac light, as i understand it as someone with only a passing knowledge of them, is to light up the area you are shooting at. Being able to gain a second or two of advantage is just a natural side effect and as far as im aware strobe doesnt actually have much advantage than high beam except it can be off putting to you as well as them.
Groo here
I have had the same thoughts...
A key chain light will make you see spots if you are in the dark.
I think the key is to flash the bad dude or dudet and let the area go dark
again. They got spots you don't.
In this case 60 to 100lms would be fine.
In the daytime you would need a large flash like a Sun Superflase on
a 35mm.
The tac light is for you to see and ident the target, just remember
that a light is also a bullet magnet..
I have had the same thoughts...
A key chain light will make you see spots if you are in the dark.
I think the key is to flash the bad dude or dudet and let the area go dark
again. They got spots you don't.
In this case 60 to 100lms would be fine.
In the daytime you would need a large flash like a Sun Superflase on
a 35mm.
The tac light is for you to see and ident the target, just remember
that a light is also a bullet magnet..
Ninja
Newly Enlightened
Sorry, should have made it more clear as to disabling the oponents optics without your NV optic becomming disabled... I was guessing SF L4 with wide short throw.
60 incandescent lumens.
50 LED lumens.
At close quarters this is all it takes to see what you need to do without blinding yourself and stun others.
Yes, 200 lumens in a room will blind someone temporarily, but you will be too. Not as long though..
The question is how many lumens are too much not how many do you need.. so the answer is something like this.
If you are outside.. it does not matter as long as you aren't in a confined space like an alley or between two objects that reflects light.
If you are inside then I wouldn't go over 100-120 lumens and even with that you will more than likely deteriorate your night vision for a second.
Think about it.. Why does the FBI and US Marshalls issue the Z2 Combatlight producing 65 incandescent lumens?
There can be too much light depending on where you operate, period.
50 LED lumens.
At close quarters this is all it takes to see what you need to do without blinding yourself and stun others.
Yes, 200 lumens in a room will blind someone temporarily, but you will be too. Not as long though..
The question is how many lumens are too much not how many do you need.. so the answer is something like this.
If you are outside.. it does not matter as long as you aren't in a confined space like an alley or between two objects that reflects light.
If you are inside then I wouldn't go over 100-120 lumens and even with that you will more than likely deteriorate your night vision for a second.
Think about it.. Why does the FBI and US Marshalls issue the Z2 Combatlight producing 65 incandescent lumens?
There can be too much light depending on where you operate, period.
buickid
Enlightened
Over 9000. :nana:
Kidding aside, I find that people think my M30W on 2xAA batteries is bright... bright enough for them to raise their hands up or turn away. Not that I've intentionally blasted them with it or anything
Now if someone was really trying to kill you... they might still be charging you, but perhaps their aim wont be as good...
:nana:Kidding aside, I find that people think my M30W on 2xAA batteries is bright... bright enough for them to raise their hands up or turn away. Not that I've intentionally blasted them with it or anything
Now if someone was really trying to kill you... they might still be charging you, but perhaps their aim wont be as good...
GPB
Enlightened
Don't get me wrong...I love my country as much as the next guy, probably more, and there's no place I'd rather live.....but I would never use the US Gov't as an example of logic and sensibility.
I would also never count on a light to get me out of anything but darkness. If I was expecting any other kind of trouble I'd have a colapsable baton or night stick.
1dash1
Enlightened
bluepilgrim
Enlightened
You always have the option of closing one eye, knowing you are going to flash brightly, but even a small light will distract someone for a moment, and if within striking range that's time to kick them in the gonads or whatever other neat trick you have. You get a half second surprise delay (and you can make loud, weird noise at them too), say, and another half second for their normal reaction time, and that should be plenty to take them down. You can also gently toss the light at their head while you close in from a short distance, or duck and hide; that would be very distracting and hard for them to ignore or look past. (And you can also pull out your backup light during that time.)
This is the sort of thing you should consult with a martial arts expert about since there is more to it than just a bright light: it's controlling the mental situation which is most important.
This is the sort of thing you should consult with a martial arts expert about since there is more to it than just a bright light: it's controlling the mental situation which is most important.
Why do you want to stun someone and take away their nightvision? :shrug:
You're talking about NV goggles and such? Well, if they're using some of those cheap garbage ones I've seen around about all you'd need is a Bic lighter.
Seriously, the Gen 1 and II will fall prey to just about anything. I've played with them before, and even a MiniMag can do it. The later optics, especially 4th generation, are overload protected.
Just remember: the biggest overload danger you face for your own optics is the fact that the other guy might just have a flashlight/weapon light as well. I've seen few fellas that carry NV gear that don't also carry a decent light.
PetaBread
Enlightened
KenAnderson
Enlightened
1 million lumens is definately too much for an EDC flashlight...I think...hmmm....ok, 100 million is definately too much. lovecpf
other then lumen requirements maybe the beam should be an all-throw-no-spill (or very little). also how bright depends on how far that target is. what if that human target wasn't even looking in the direction of the light? :sick2:
The US Marshall's are on par with the best shots in LE/Military Spec Ops teams.
The FBI HRT team is on par with SEALs as far as CQC ability goes.
I would never doubt their combat prowess and I highly doubt what they issue is anything less than ideal for situations.
The White House and Congress might be total morons, but DOD, FBI, DEA, ICE, BP, CIA, ETC ETC ETC is more than on top of their game.
I'm not trying to be heated
but I would never doubt anything about their tactical teams.SupremeEye
Newly Enlightened
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Hell if my life is on the line and im a hostage send in the LAPD "D" Platoon (SWAT) or the LASD SEB.
GPB
Enlightened
I didn't even recognize half the acronyms you mentioned, but I'm sure those are some well trained and equipped teams, and there are some amazingly qualified individuals on those teams.... but I'm sure we can all recall items from the news where our servicemen weren't properly equipped. Humvees without any armor in Iraq comes to mind for example, or parents buying Kevlar vests for their kids serving over there. I don't want to hijack the thread or turn it into an issue of patriotism.....I just wanted to point out that just because the US Gov't uses something, doesn't mean its the best tool for the job.
f22shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
maybe a more focused beam like a thrower instead of a flood.
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