how SIGNIFICANT is a REGULATED light???

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pizzajoe62

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hello all,

is it a real advantage for a light(led or incan)to be regulated???
how about disadvantages???
what is a regulator???
is it the same as having a buck or boost driver???

any info that can SHED SOME LIGHT will be appreciated.
thanks,

joe /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
 
Hello Joe,

The advantage to a regulated light is that it is almost always at the same brightness.

The disadvantage is that you have little warning when the batteries go dead.

Some people achieve a semi regulated effect by using re-chargeable cells or lithium cells. Their discharge curve is flatter than other battery types.

Tom
 
An unregulated led flashlight undergoes a long, slow descent into dimness. It will go for months and years as it slowly dims out. You generally end up replacing batteries when they are around 1/2 to 2/3 depleted because you will want to get the light back up to full brightness.

The regulated lights can suck a batttery dry while providing a constant level of light.

Incandescent is similar. On alkaline batteries, an incandescent bulb will be bright for a few minutes then quickly drop in brightness down to about the 2/3 power level and give you a less than optimal light output for the bulk of the life of the alkaline batts.

Regulation, again, gives a constant level of light, depletes the batteries more effectively, and can extend the life of an incandescent bulb.

Stu
 
a buck or boost driver is a regulator.

basically, a regulator achieves the same brightness of the LED (in different manners though) at the cost of some efficiency loss in the regulator itself.
You end up having a light that runs for the same brightness for the usable battery life and drops rather quickly then, in most cases it will drop into a "moon mode" where the light produces a little output for a long time still.

constant curretn regulation --> the LED receives the same current all the time. the best kind of regulation afaik, but maybe less efficient and more expensive than ...

voltage regulation --> same voltage at the LED ... produces a "semi-regulated" output that still drops but much less than the unregulated light

In general, regulation is always superior because:
- protects the LED from overdrive
- Vf shift of the LED over time doesn't matter
- your tool (your light, that is) will always be of the same brightness when used, allowing you to judge your target / surroundings with one less variable in mind
- you don't feel the urge to change batteries avery few minutes because you see your light constantly dimming
- you can choose the output you want without losses at bigger resistors should your chosen output be dim
- you can drive LEDs with battery combinations that have a greatly superior or inferior voltage than the LED (buck or boost) ... makes you more flexible
- you don't need to worry about different battery combinations that might damage your LED when in DD (--> NiMh, Li-Ions, ...)
- it's very high tech and /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

BUT ...
- it's less efficient than DD without a resistor (regulator take its toll)
- runtimes are typically shorter than DD (but brighter for longer)
- more expensive
- some say the electronics are prone to failure and less secure then a low-tech DD light, but I disagree if the regulator is well built and potted. DD has its risks, too (see above)

typical regulators:
- BadBoy: step up, curretn reg.
- DownBoy: step down, current reg.
- MadMax: step up, voltage reg.
- Wizard: step up and down, current reg.

bernhard
 
A picture sais more than a 1000 words ...

direct drive:

react-a.jpg


voltage regulation:

mad-lit.jpg


current regulation:

mclux.jpg


Pics taken from Roy's runtime plots ... a great place to visit if you are interestes in this subject! Look at the sticky threads in the reviews forum.

bernhard
 
As usual, I will add the "incan" perspective on things:

The nice things about a filament is that as long as it is hot, it will radiate light: the current can be constantly reversing direction and going through zero (as in house lighting) or it can be turning on and off rapidly or it can be dead constant--it doesn't matter. All that matters is the power applied to the filament. As long as the variations in the current and voltage are fast when compared with the thermal mass of the filament, it doesn't matter.

This allows incan regulators to be very efficient. More efficient than constant current buck/boost LED drivers. Here is a link to Willie Hunt's Lightbulb Regulators which are 99 percent efficient. He has some good comments on why regulators are important for incandescent lights.

The biggest reason is that an incan is most efficient and puts out the best light only within a narrow voltage range, which equates to a filament temperature. You want to be within 100 or 200 C of the melting point of the filament. No battery chemistry in the world has this kind of discharge curve, which means that for best incan performance a regulator is ESSENTIAL.

Plus, the LVR3's have a feature which slightly dims the light once a second when the battery voltage is getting low to warn you that you are towards the end of the run, plus there is a feature which automatically dims the light when the battery is nearly depleted, for extended low-level light, a "moon" mode if you will, just as with some LED drivers.

And also, the LVR regulators have a "soft-start" feature (as does the SF A2) which limits the starting inrush current to the filament, and increases the life of the filament as a result, because almost all blow outs happen when you first turn the light on.

Also, the LVR's have an optional low battery voltage cutoff to prevent you from damaging certain rechargeable battery chemistries which can not be safely discharged below a certain voltage.

All of this adds up to a significantly better light, and I wish that there were more regulated incans out there. To my knowledge the only production regulated incan is the SF A2, and it has to use the less efficient constant current regulation due to the presense of the LED's. Of course, you can buy lights with LVR's in them, but they couldn't be classified as "production" incan lights. Oh well. And it doesn't look as if SF plans to make any regulated incan versions of their lights for the future, either

How significant IS a regulated light? I'd say pretty significant, for all of the reasons I mentioned. Plus, I didn't even bring up multi-level brightness, but that's because I think the filament should be run at the optimal temp for best CCT and efficiency.

Hope this added something to the discussion. Errr, I mean something helpful.
 
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Hey,

That guy's email addie is at Surefire.com

I wonder why he doesn't post here?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Chop said:
Hey,

That guy's email addie is at Surefire.com

I wonder why he doesn't post here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably, just like PK, he is too busy doing engineering and building of flashlights for SureFire to have lots of free time to post on CPF. I know PK is registered, but I don't know about Willie. All I know is that he seems like a pretty cool guy who makes great regulators, and that he is a SureFire engineer.
 
Willie's regulators are in some PRODUCTION black diamond lights. Lightingpro.org also has several products with his stuff in them.
 
guys, i appreciate very much all the infos...i'm learning all the time... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gifto all...thanks!!!

bernhard...
great graphs!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

jim...
i'm glad you brought up the incan side /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif...i still prefer it, especially for outdoors.
i'll check out the link...hope its available for "mod" purposes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/goodjob.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif
have you done any mod w/ this regulator???

i have another question???

if you get a regulated light & use regulated batts(protected rechargeables)...will it cancel each other out???
what i'm really asking is...are they compatible???

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gifall again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

joe /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
pizzajoe62 said:
...if you get a regulated light & use regulated batts(protected rechargeables)...will it cancel each other out???
what i'm really asking is...are they compatible???



[/ QUOTE ]

The two are compatible but redundant. They will both work but you do have power losses in the electronics. A direct drive light, assuming all else being equal, would run longer than a light with electronics.
 
haveblue... it makes sense.

torch boy...if it is reasonable, i think its worth it...that if i can afford it...LOL!

thank you both
joe /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
 
Regulation is great, but the one big advantage of unregulated LED lights is that they keep running for a long long time (getting dimmer and dimmer as they go). This will keep you from being suddenly out of light if you happen to need it for longer than planned. This is desireable in an emergency light or backpacking light for the obvious reason that replacement cells may not be available. And you might be surprised how much use you can get out of a dimming light if you need to.

One way to make this a little more usable is by adding brightness levels with electrinic dimming such as with the Tikka head lamp or other similar lights. You can select a lower level when batteries are fresh, and a higher level later to help deal with the diminishing brightness or to suit varying conditions.
 
Lurker,

A "moon mode" is often part of the regulator circuit, or can be added as an option.
 
Yes, a moon mode is nice, but for instance with the Opalec NewBeam, you get 8-10 hours in regulation and maybe another 6-8 usable hours in moon mode. With a Tikka or equivalent, you would have usable light well past 100 hours. You probably won't be using the tail end of the curve in anything other than an emergency, but it is worth knowing about when you make a decision.

However, I am a fan of regulatioin in general.
 
Lurker is right on here.

I don't like surprises from my women, or my flashlights.

Call me boring.
 
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