How to diagnose a firing problem

[arek98]

It could be heat-sinking. If star was used and was glued to heat-sink it could crack eventually from thermal stress (expanding, shrinking while heated, cooled).
Try unscrewing reflector and see if star is firmly attached, if you can easily pry it then it probably does not hold well anymore. You need to remove it anyway because it definitely looks cooked (all brown discoloration).
Get new star, solder it and try before mounting permanently.
I would also use thermal pad instead of thermal epoxy to mount it unless you can get one that stays flexible when cured (Arctic Alumina does not).
You could also use thermal paste and screws but there may be not enough space for screws under reflector and you would need drill and thread holes.

 

[lucca brassi]

I have always thought Hector uses Taskled drivers......... :fail:

 

[trimixdiver]

It could be heat-sinking. If star was used and was glued to heat-sink it could crack eventually from thermal stress (expanding, shrinking while heated, cooled).
Try unscrewing reflector and see if star is firmly attached, if you can easily pry it then it probably does not hold well anymore. You need to remove it anyway because it definitely looks cooked (all brown discoloration).
Get new star, solder it and try before mounting permanently.
I would also use thermal pad instead of thermal epoxy to mount it unless you can get one that stays flexible when cured (Arctic Alumina does not).
You could also use thermal paste and screws but there may be not enough space for screws under reflector and you would need drill and thread holes.

Im not sure how to remover the ally heat sing out....
also not sure how the wires are solded to the board...need Help there!

Tony

 

[trimixdiver]

I have always thought Hector uses Taskled drivers......... :fail:

Got a link where can I get the same one I have?

Tony

 

[lucca brassi]

Don't know it look something like

http://www.lightinthebox.com/3-0-18...ver-Board-17mm-Step-down-Circuit_p169623.html single mode 10W driver (but have only 1A output )

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20mm-3A-CC-...ight-Driver-/131543355287?hash=item1ea0984f97 (3A output ) i would take that one

 

[trimixdiver]

Don't know it look something like

http://www.lightinthebox.com/3-0-18...ver-Board-17mm-Step-down-Circuit_p169623.html single mode 10W driver (but have only 1A output )

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20mm-3A-CC-...ight-Driver-/131543355287?hash=item1ea0984f97 (3A output ) i would take that one

What would you do change the led
or the driver?
or should I just get a whole new head????
Tony

 

[lucca brassi]

I'll try first with led , then driver ....... ..... long term..... whole head . Maglite is not diving light - simply and clear

 

[arek98]

LED is fried and you need to remove it anyway.
You should be able to unscrew brass pill from aluminum reflector, this should expose LED
I guess LED is on star and you should see wires coming from the other side soldered to pads on star.
Unsolder wires and check how hard is to pry star, if it is easy and there is hard stuff left on star bottom and inside pill then it is possible that epoxy cracked and star got loose.
That would explain overheated LED.

I don't see how driver could do that. It would have to supply lot more current suddenly. IMO this is not possible but I may be wrong. If driver just died then LED would not be burned.

 

[trimixdiver]

LED is fried and you need to remove it anyway.
You should be able to unscrew brass pill from aluminum reflector, this should expose LED
I guess LED is on star and you should see wires coming from the other side soldered to pads on star.
Unsolder wires and check how hard is to pry star, if it is easy and there is hard stuff left on star bottom and inside pill then it is possible that epoxy cracked and star got loose.
That would explain overheated LED.

I don't see how driver could do that. It would have to supply lot more current suddenly. IMO this is not possible but I may be wrong. If driver just died then LED would not be burned.

Great someone that knows my light !
I was able to unscrew the brass pill from the reflector, (the Led is tiny) it looks like it has been glued with this white stuff...there is 2 wires red and black not sure where they connect to somewhere on the circuit board but where ?
Also need to know where to get LED...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/51efynabbl0payc/DSC03852.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0983oqnzwzo1z1m/DSC03851.JPG?dl=0

Tony

 

[arek98]

I don't know your light but this is what I was expecting

Now you need to unsolder LED, pry it of a pill and clean whatever is left of epoxy.
You can scrape it but try not to make scratches on pill. You can use fine sandpaper to polish it at the end.
While prying a LED star, take a note how hard it is and what is a condition of epoxy layer.
If epoxy looks strong and smooth than it may not be a problem with thermal connection between star and pill.

Since you are in Australia you can get LED from Cutter.
This one http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=CUT1442(cool white)
or little warmer (5000K) http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=CUT1807
Second one would be my choice.

You will need something to attach new LED.
Thermal epoxy like Arctic Alumina
Cutter has it but seems expensive from them
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut827

Or thermal pad (thermally conductive self adhesive that stays elastic).
I know Bond-Ply 100 is good but I don't know where you can get it in Australia and for what price.
http://www.bergquistcompany.com/pdfs/dataSheets/PDS_BP100_1011.pdf

I would also get some Kepton tape (thin, strong, electrically insulating tape) and put some after soldering new LED on joins to make sure they don't touch reflector back (it could short LED). O-ring seems to prevent that but I would do that anyway.
http://3dprintersuperstore.com.au/products/kapton-polymide-tape-20mm-x-30-meters-ex-gst

Of course some solder.
As you see red wire is + and black -.
LEDs I linked have + mark close to one of the pads, next to TPAD.
Even if one you actually get looks different it will have marked + and - (or at least one of them).
You just solder red to + and black to -


Edit:
If you buy from Cutter use 5% discount code CPFDISCOUNT

 

[arek98]

Just theory.
If you had a light in a bag and it turned itself on accidently it could happen that LED overheated, died and by the time you took light out it cooled back and you would not know what happened.

 

[trimixdiver]

I don't know your light but this is what I was expecting

Now you need to unsolder LED, pry it of a pill and clean whatever is left of epoxy.
You can scrape it but try not to make scratches on pill. You can use fine sandpaper to polish it at the end.
While prying a LED star, take a note how hard it is and what is a condition of epoxy layer.
If epoxy looks strong and smooth than it may not be a problem with thermal connection between star and pill.

Since you are in Australia you can get LED from Cutter.
This one http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=CUT1442(cool white)
or little warmer (5000K) http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=CUT1807
Second one would be my choice.

You will need something to attach new LED.
Thermal epoxy like Arctic Alumina
Cutter has it but seems expensive from them
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut827

Or thermal pad (thermally conductive self adhesive that stays elastic).
I know Bond-Ply 100 is good but I don't know where you can get it in Australia and for what price.
http://www.bergquistcompany.com/pdfs/dataSheets/PDS_BP100_1011.pdf

I would also get some Kepton tape (thin, strong, electrically insulating tape) and put some after soldering new LED on joins to make sure they don't touch reflector back (it could short LED). O-ring seems to prevent that but I would do that anyway.
http://3dprintersuperstore.com.au/products/kapton-polymide-tape-20mm-x-30-meters-ex-gst

Of course some solder.
As you see red wire is + and black -.
LEDs I linked have + mark close to one of the pads, next to TPAD.
Even if one you actually get looks different it will have marked + and - (or at least one of them).
You just solder red to + and black to -


Edit:
If you buy from Cutter use 5% discount code CPFDISCOUNT

Hi thanks for those links ...
I have ordered the new LED ( I went with your 2nd choice) and the Thermal epoxy like Arctic Alumina should be here in a few days , I have unsolder the old led I need to know where the wires goes to on circuit board not the Led I know where that goes to... need to go to here somewhere:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/plberl292j1fq4w/DSC03844.JPG?dl=0

Pill and old LED removed , have I cleaned the pill thoroughly?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mmslqgawdkwdngy/DSC03853.JPG?dl=0
Good thinking on the light not knowing it may of been turned on then burned.

Tony

ps thanks for the discount.

 

[arek98]

I clearly missed a part where you got wires disconnected from driver already.
What is a diameter of driver (bigger board that was soldered to pill and provides battery contact)?

What is written on it? Looks like .com address, what is it, anything else?

Anyway, layout seems identical to this driver and you can see on their pictures where wires go
http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67_115&product_id=214

Edit:
Hmm, looks like this module, reflector grinded or turned on lathe to make diameter of the front smaller, maybe driver modified.
http://www.dx.com/p/cree-xml-t6-5-m...-drop-in-module-with-textured-reflector-58481

Does your light has more than one mode?
Hector linked this module in old thread asking how to change driver to one mode
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?321591-DX-Cree-XML-Module&highlight=

 

[trimixdiver]

I clearly missed a part where you got wires disconnected from driver already.
What is a diameter of driver (bigger board that was soldered to pill and provides battery contact)?

What is written on it? Looks like .com address, what is it, anything else?

Anyway, layout seems identical to this driver and you can see on their pictures where wires go
http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67_115&product_id=214

Edit:
Hmm, looks like this module, reflector grinded or turned on lathe to make diameter of the front smaller, maybe driver modified.
http://www.dx.com/p/cree-xml-t6-5-m...-drop-in-module-with-textured-reflector-58481

Does your light has more than one mode?
Hector linked this module in old thread asking how to change driver to one mode
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?321591-DX-Cree-XML-Module&highlight=

Hi it looks like the writing is Brin Ute .com .
the light has 4 modes if I remember I don't use them all...Low Med High and sos.

Tony

 

[arek98]

brinyte.com

Looks indeed like this is module I linked already
http://www.dx.com/p/cree-xml-t6-5-m...-drop-in-module-with-textured-reflector-58481

It is probably the same as in this light
http://www.dx.com/p/brinyte-xml-900...700k-900lm-white-led-flashlight-2-18650-55028

Anyway, I know you already ordered parts from Cutter and LED you ordered is better (XM-L2 on copper) but if you wanted you could order this module for US$18.16 and replace whole thing or just a pill if reflector you have was modified (I believe it was). Unscrew pill from new one and put it in old reflector.

 

[trimixdiver]

brinyte.com

Looks indeed like this is module I linked already
http://www.dx.com/p/cree-xml-t6-5-m...-drop-in-module-with-textured-reflector-58481

It is probably the same as in this light
http://www.dx.com/p/brinyte-xml-900...700k-900lm-white-led-flashlight-2-18650-55028

Anyway, I know you already ordered parts from Cutter and LED you ordered is better (XM-L2 on copper) but if you wanted you could order this module for US$18.16 and replace whole thing or just a pill if reflector you have was modified (I believe it was). Unscrew pill from new one and put it in old reflector.

I will try to wire it up like this link you sent me 1st since I have it already...
http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index....product_id=214

then will let you know how it goes for a feather fix.

Tony

 

[trimixdiver]

The parts came in today I have the new led wired + & - , I tried to fire it up but won't work , I connected the red and black wire from Led to the driver ....
Not sure what my next step is!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hotrr3wu7rv8jjf/FullSizeRender.jpg?dl=0

Tony
PS. sorry for the bad pic just wanted to show the new led with wires.

 

[trimixdiver]

Can anyone out there help me out the only way I can get the led to fire is by connecting direct to battery but very low light output...
I'm thinking its the driver that faulty , any other drivers I can use ?

Tony

 

[DIWdiver]

What is your battery voltage? If it's more than 4V, you should NOT have connected the LED directly to the battery. That would fry the LED instantly, unless there's something wrong with the battery.

Unless, of course, what's 'wrong' with the battery is that it has overcurrent protection that kicks in before the LED can fail. The protection circuit would then need to let through enough current (very small amount) to light the LED. I don't know enough about typical protection circuits to know if this is possible. Even if this is the case, I wouldn't recommend connecting the LED directly to the battery. It might survive one or several times, then fail.

On the other hand, if the battery voltage is low (3 volts and change), that would explain a lot. I'm going to guess though, that your battery voltage is higher, and we have to keep digging.

 

[trimixdiver]

What is your battery voltage? If it's more than 4V, you should NOT have connected the LED directly to the battery. That would fry the LED instantly, unless there's something wrong with the battery.

Unless, of course, what's 'wrong' with the battery is that it has overcurrent protection that kicks in before the LED can fail. The protection circuit would then need to let through enough current (very small amount) to light the LED. I don't know enough about typical protection circuits to know if this is possible. Even if this is the case, I wouldn't recommend connecting the LED directly to the battery. It might survive one or several times, then fail.

On the other hand, if the battery voltage is low (3 volts and change), that would explain a lot. I'm going to guess though, that your battery voltage is higher, and we have to keep digging.

Hi Bud
Battery voltage is 8.3 it does have circuit protection board, I will at mit I did it twice led was fine , but wont do this again...
I think its the driver but I no poop about that , can I check it some how or need some sort of replacement.
I love this light when it was working it has been serving me well, really want to fix it !
Best Tony