I can't fall asleep

[flownosaj]

I can\'t fall asleep

Okay, some of you know that I recently switched onto nightshift. The first few days were rough, but then I got used to it and didn't have a problem. For the past month, I've had little problem falling asleep when I come home and woke up feeling fine.

Over the past week, I come home around 8-9 am, wind down for about an hour or so, and get ready for bed--just like I've normally been doing--but now I just lie there for an hour. Sometimes I've gotten back up, got something to eat, logged on or just did something around the house. I feel tired, but there's little I can do to sleep.

Right now, it's after noon, which means the most sleep I can get "tonight" is about 4-5 hours. I had lain in bed for nearly an hour and a half with no sucess.

This lack of sleep is really starting to make me iritable and forgetful. I really feel sorry for the poor saps that have to put up with me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif



I've tried getting more exercise, but it's a PITA to try to work out after a long 12 hr shift.

I've tried exposing myself to more sunlight before and after work to regulate melanin levels. I have yet to even get a tan...

Now I've taken the more direct route--Miller Genuine Draft. Half way through a bottle of this vile stuf right now. I think a mild sedative might help for the short term, but I'm afraid that I may be setting myself up for dependency /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drunk.gif

This is something new for me and I'm hoping that it's not a real problem. I'm wondering if the night shift is really screwing me up..nfortunately, night shift pays better and I need the money. In any case, I'm stuck with this shift till the spring when we move to the new building and schedules change.


Have any of you had this problem and if so, what seemed to work for you best? I'd like to avoid sleeping pills if I can.

 

[NeonLights]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

Welcome to 3rd shift life (if you can call it a life). Been doing it off and on (mostly on) for most of the ten years I've been married. My current job is at UPS working roughly 10:30p-4:00a, but my hours vary daily. The normal 3rd shift sleeping problems are compounded in my case by the fact that I watch my kids during the day, so I generally get 3-4 hours of sleep in the morning, and another 3-4 hours in the afternoon/evening.

Some things that have helped me over the years are making my bedroom completely dark, covering all the windows so no light gets in. I also have a CD of ocean surf on repeat playing softly all the time on my bedroom stereo. I try to regulate my caffeine intake, usually one Mt Dew before work, another in the first hour or two, and then nothing at all for the four hours before I go to sleep. Massive amounts of caffeine can stick with you longer than you might think. I also discovered something else that has helped me out this year, Tylenol PM. I usually only take it a max of 2-3 times a week, but it works well, and as long as I get more than 6 hours of sleep (I usually take it on weekends), I don't feel groggy when I get up.

Unfortunately even doing all of those things I mentioned, I still often have trouble getting to sleep on occasion, and often read for an hour or more until I fall asleep. Right now I'm about 2/3 of the way through a 700+ page book on the history of the Vietnam War/s.

-Keith

 

[PhotonBoy]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

Try taking a 30 min. walk at a convenient time of the day - good exercise, good excuse to use a flashlight if it's dark, helps you to unwind and go to sleep easier.

 

[Lurker]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

You are smart to avoid sleeping pills. They will make you sleep, but the sleep is not really a restorative sleep and you are still groggy the next day as though you hadn't slept well.

I personally take a natural sleep aid called Melatonin that works wonders for me. It helps me sleep and the sleep is very restorative. It is a compound that is normally occurring in your body at night anyway, so this is pretty natural stuff. I find a very small dose, about 1/10 the normal dose, or 300mcg (about one third of a milligram) is effective for me.
I am not a shift worker, but many people who do shift work or multi-time zone travel find it works well. It doesn't make you feel drowsy or keep you from staying alert, but yet you drift off easily and sleep soundly. If you take too large a dose, you may feel tired after you wake up.

Also try using a sleep mask (blindfold) and reading something not too gripping. I would stay away from caffeine all together no matter what time it is. Caffeine is found in coffee, tea, chocolate, most soft drinks and many headache remedies such as Excedrin and also in stimulants like Vivarin.

Sleeplessness can be very frustrating, so hang in there and good luck.

 

[UK Owl]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

When I used to work shifts (continental with foreward rotation) I found that on a night shift limiting caffeine intake and a mug of Horlicks when I got home used to do the job for me.

 

[flownosaj]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

Thanks guys /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I hear you all on the coffee and caffeine in general. The half-life of that stuff is way to long. Usually I'll have some green or black tea before midnight, but I figure that I still have 8 or so hours to get all that out of my system by the time I try to get to sleep.

I've got the room pretty dark (but not all the way) between the blinds with thick curtains over them and aluminum foil over the bathroom window. I think I may try a sleep mask or just to black the room out entirely--the neighbors will think I'm a nut...or at least more of a nut than they already think I am. What kind of fool shines flashlights around the back yard in the middle of the night just for fun? :P

A CD sounds like it may help as well. Just some background or white noise to filter out all the crap that's going on outside--especially planes. I'll have to take a run out to Walmart to see what they have. Is yours on a constant replay or does it shut off after an hour or so?

I may have to look into that melatonin next time I pass by a healthfood place.


Now, let's see if I can /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif

 

[flownosaj]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

I'm kind of afraid to ask, but what's "Horlicks"?

 

[Lurker]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

One more suggestion that works for my puppy: lap some warm milk from a bowl and then get someone to rub your belly.

 

[Frangible]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

Try alcohol. I'm not joking. It's what makes you sleep in NyQuil. You don't have to overdo it, either.

 

[bwaites]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

Wal-Mart has melatonin. 3-6mg is the usual effective dose, though as noted, many people get by with less. it has minimal side effects, doesn't seem to interact with many meds. Its only drawback is that short life, if you get awakened easily, you may not get back to sleep.

It is a naturally occurring chemical that seems to help trigger sleep. It has a very short half life, thus minimal sedation after sleep.

If that doesn't work, consider using Ambien or Sonata as sleep agents. Both have short half lives, though not as short as melatonins. They are prescription only. They are more potent as sleep agents and have minimal hangover effect. (My wife calls Ambien the "light switch" medicine. Someone turns off the lights 15-30 minutes after you take it, and turns them back on in 6-8 hours or so.)

She's a lightweight when it comes to meds, so if she tolerates it, you probably will too.

Alcohol is the absolute worst possible sedative, especially beer, because the volume needed to make you sleepy is so high. No one can predict metabolism either, (the reason that skinny guy can sometimes drink everyone under the table!) so you may still be inhibited when you have to head for work.

Tylenol PM contains benadryl, a potent antihistamine which crosses the blood-brain barrier and causes drowsiness. Unfortunately, there are some recent studies which indicate it interferes with the transfer of short term memory to long term. In nursing home populations some people have been diagnosed with Alzheimers who miraculously recovered after being taken off TylenolPM. So it has its own problems.

Bill

 

[flownosaj]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

Yeah, I give Benadryl, Restoril, Ambien and a few other "sleep aids" to my patients at work. It works great for them, but it's a different situation for me--I'm not getting cut open the next morning (and I need something for the long term) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

Well, the MGD seems to finally be kicking in. I'm off to bed.

 

[2dim]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

Wrote this way back after the "walk" advice, but guess connections jammed up and so couldn't get on the forum until now...

There are several things you can do. To start with, I suggest 3-5mg melatonin [safe natural hormone], good quality from health food store, about two hours before going to bed. Drink a cup of very hot milk with honey added, just before getting into bed. Purchase a Bucky sleep mask and World's Finest Earplugs from internet, then use them regularly which will condition you to know when it's sleepy time. Try not to worry when unable to sleep, or about anything else for that matter. Postpone those thoughts until the next day at work. Learn to relax your entire body, slowly from the toes up. Finally, use this simple breathing exercise to release the mind from thinking too much, running on endlessly:

Lying on your back, just become aware of your breaths coming in and going out, over and over again. Notice how they happen automatically and allow them to, without anticipating or controlling, all the way in, then slowly back out. Feel your chest/stomach rise and fall in a nice even rythm as you gently focus your concentration only on that steady in-out movement, silently repeating "in" as it rises ever so slowly, then "out", long and slow. Don't let yourself rush the breathing. After you start to calm down, counting can begin...

With every inward and outward breath, think one-one one-one, then one-two one-two, one-three-one-three, etc. [that's three complete in-out breaths], until you reach one-ten one-ten. Then it's two-one two-one, two-two two-two, etc. up to ten again. Keep at it, aiming towards ten-ten ten-ten. You'll soon find you keep nodding off and losing count. When that happens, simply keep returning to one-one again. It's very difficult to remain awake until ten-ten, believe me. Eventually, the mind just gives up, nodding out so often and returning back to the beginning becomes too much effort and sleep the easier alternative.

At first, you'll probably wake up again quite soon, but don't be concerned, just go back to the breathing awareness, counting if need be. Soon enough, the counting likely won't be needed, since thinking of the slowly in-out should do it. After awhile, you'll awaken less often, having taught your body how to sleep better.

Please note that all those other suggestions before mine also apply. Alcohol and sedatives are a very bad-- together even worse, and dangerous to boot. Take it easy and I can almost guarantee results. This applies to anyone whose patient enough to apply these breathing exercises seriously. Melatonin can be taken for quite some time as well. Follow a doctor's advice on that, along with what your local health food store suggests. All the best,

Peter

 

[Frangible]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

[ QUOTE ]
Alcohol is the absolute worst possible sedative, especially beer, because the volume needed to make you sleepy is so high.

[/ QUOTE ]

I basically never drink, but I notice I sleep much easier and stay sleeping with a single shot before sleep, and I'm a big guy. So I would take issue with your volume theroy.

Also, the quantity of alcohol in NyQuil is about one shot, yet, it aids sleep as well.

As far as alcohol being "bad"... if you abuse it, yes it is. However, a drink every now and then isn't going to hurt you, especially if you elect to drink something "healthy" like red wine.

[ QUOTE ]
Alcohol and sedatives are a bad

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think the reprocussions of melatonin are? Any time you start using something found naturally in the body regularily, the body start producing less of it. I'd argue alcohol is a lot safer and more effective than most of the stuff out there.

 

[ksbman]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

Sleep Foundation

 

[doubleganger]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

I highly recommend a long soak in a hot tub. Only downside is falling asleep in the tub.

 

[2dim]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

Melatonin is not a problem short term. Used regularly, it can train the body into the desired sleep pattern. It's also good for overcoming jet-lag.

Alcohol, on the other hand, is a poison and toxic at any time. A little wine and beer, especially with food, can be beneficial every now and then, but definitely not as an aid to sleep or for intoxication.

In any case, the breathing exercises will prove effective for everyone, regardless of other factors. They really work and are also a good way to relax whenever it seems necessary.

 

[2dim]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

[ QUOTE ]
doubleganger said:
I highly recommend a long soak in a hot tub. Only downside is falling asleep in the tub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great if you fit into the tub! I'm too tall. Adding epsom salts will completely relax your muscles and you'll have to be careful getting out and making it into bed.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

Reading sometimes helps.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

[ QUOTE ]
flownosaj said:
...I had lain in bed for nearly an hour and a half with no sucess.

[/ QUOTE ]
There are ~120 sleep disorders but I'm assuming that all of this began since your sked change. Many sleep specialists recommend getting up for a while after 30-45 min in bed trying to sleep. Go to your computer, read a bit in a chair or watch a little TV. After a half hour, try to sleep again. While this may not actually help you sleep, this behavior is intended to keep you from becoming habituated to lying in bed awake. Once you get used to lying in bed awake it will be harder to find whatever it takes to fall asleep. Don't read or watch TV in bed either, for the same reason.

[ QUOTE ]
flownosaj said:
I've tried exposing myself to more sunlight before and after work to regulate melanin levels...

[/ QUOTE ]

Emphasis mine.

Lots of sun before work should be fine, but no sunlight after work! The bright light after work will drive the Melatonin you may have picked up at work right out of your system, possibly after just a few minutes exposure to bright light. The Melatonin will then be replaced with Serotonin -- which will keep you awake. I would wear sunglasses with a maximum light transmission of 25% as I left work and protect my eyes from all bright light until you get up to go to work the next day. If you leave work for lunch be sure to wear the glasses. In some cases, some people may even want to wear tinted glasses inside at work if it is exceptionally bright as long as it does not make them get drowsy on the job.

You may also want to take supplemental Melatonin at bedtime. Research the dosage for your age on the web. I've taken it for years.

[ QUOTE ]
flownosaj said:
Now I've taken the more direct route--Miller Genuine Draft. Half way through a bottle of this vile stuf right now. I think a mild sedative might help for the short term, but I'm afraid that I may be setting myself up for dependency /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drunk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Alcohol will jack your sleep around at least 2 ways. In some people it can actually wake them up more, and I believe it inhibits REM sleep in everyone. Sleeping pills do this, too. You look asleep and you know that you've slept but it is not the same. Aside from the narco-hangover in the morning, medication induced sleep will take it's toll on you over time because you need more REM sleep than they can provide if you use them (or alcohol) every night. Melatonin does not effect REM sleep, has no narco side effects and may be taken indefinitely in the correct, age-based doses. I have talked to neurologists about Melatonin.

[ QUOTE ]
flownosaj said:
Have any of you had this problem and if so, what seemed to work for you best? I'd like to avoid sleeping pills if I can.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Mine is much better than it was in the past. The important thing is to figure out how to beat the problem without developing any new undesirable behaviors/dependencies in the interim. They will only make it that much harder to sleep later.

It is also important to remember that some people just cannot make these kinds of adjustments in their sleeping skeds. It sounds really crappy but try to keep in the back of your mind that at some point you may have to make a decision to look for a new job...to keep from loosing everything else you have going for you.

Sorry to end so downbeat, but this can be a very serious issue.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

Re: I can\'t fall asleep

[ QUOTE ]
Frangible said:
What do you think the reprocussions of melatonin are? Any time you start using something found naturally in the body regularily, the body start producing less of it. I'd argue alcohol is a lot safer and more effective than most of the stuff out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone produces less Melatonin each year as they get older whether they take Melatonin supplements or not. That's why people often develop problems sleeping as they get older. Their pineal gland has lost the ability to produce enough Melatonin to enable them to sleep the way they did when they were younger.

That's the reason behind considering age first when establishing a Melatonin dosage.

There are a number of replacement therapies employed by modern medicine. Calcium and estrogyn, for example.