Incan Bulbs Banned in 4 Yrs. Stock Up Now !!

[LuxLuthor]

I'm confused. The first time I checked the original link, the article was written as if the bill had passed. Now, the article says it's "likely to pass".

They just have not updated the link. Here is the more current status of it being law.

 

[Alan B]

This is the first I've heard of this, and it is rather disconcerting. About half of our lighting is on dimmer switches, which don't work with the CFL bulbs. We have started switching the lights we can to CFL, but I'd like to retain the dimmer switches for a variety of reasons. I'll be stocking up as well unless a reasonable dimmer-friendly replacement bulb comes out in the next year or three.

There are dimmer friendly CFLs now. I installed some a month ago. Not as wide a range, but they do dim and don't blow up. Led lamps on dimmers should work better.

Bans are not a good way to encourage technology and savings, though. Tungsten lamps are just better for some things, such as in the oven, or for heat lamps. Politics and Bans don't make the right answer. CFLs will also be banned soon (most likely) due to the mercury.

-- Alan

 

[LED_Thrift]

...I plan on stocking up over the next month on all the household incan bulbs I would need for the rest of my life.

Me too, I'll need about four. Mostly for the light inside the oven. I don't know if there is a reasonable alternative to incan oven lights. This legislation will be a great spur to the development of LED "light bulbs".

 

[KROMATICS]

Lots of paranoia going around yet no one has actually bothered to read the bill.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

 

[flownosaj]

Home Depot has some of the CF candelabra base bulbs, in 7 and 15 watt. Only reason I don't have them in the dining room is that we have a dimmer in there.

 

[KROMATICS]

Me too, I'll need about four. Mostly for the light inside the oven. I don't know if there is a reasonable alternative to incan oven lights. This legislation will be a great spur to the development of LED "light bulbs".

`(D) GENERAL SERVICE INCANDESCENT LAMP-

• `(i) IN GENERAL- The term `general service incandescent lamp' means a standard incandescent or halogen type lamp that--
  • `(I) is intended for general service applications;
    `(II) has a medium screw base;
    `(III) has a lumen range of not less than 310 lumens and not more than 2,600 lumens; and
    `(IV) is capable of being operated at a voltage range at least partially within 110 and 130 volts.
  `(ii) EXCLUSIONS- The term `general service incandescent lamp' does not include the following incandescent lamps:
  • `(I) An appliance lamp.
    `(II) A black light lamp.
    `(III) A bug lamp.
    `(IV) A colored lamp.
    `(V) An infrared lamp.
    `(VI) A left-hand thread lamp.
    `(VII) A marine lamp.
    `(VIII) A marine signal service lamp.
    `(IX) A mine service lamp.
    `(X) A plant light lamp.
    `(XI) A reflector lamp.
    `(XII) A rough service lamp.
    `(XIII) A shatter-resistant lamp (including a shatter-proof lamp and a shatter-protected lamp).
    `(XIV) A sign service lamp.
    `(XV) A silver bowl lamp.
    `(XVI) A showcase lamp.
    `(XVII) A 3-way incandescent lamp.
    `(XVIII) A traffic signal lamp.
    `(XIX) A vibration service lamp.
    `(XX) A G shape lamp (as defined in ANSI C78.20-2003 and C79.1-2002 with a diameter of 5 inches or more.
    `(XXI) A T shape lamp (as defined in ANSI C78.20-2003 and C79.1-2002) and that uses not more than 40 watts or has a length of more than 10 inches.
    `(XXII) A B, BA, CA, F, G16-1/2, G-25, G30, S, or M-14 lamp (as defined in ANSI C79.1-2002 and ANSI C78.20-2003) of 40 watts or less.'; and

(B) by adding at the end the following:
`(T) APPLIANCE LAMP- The term `appliance lamp' means any lamp that--

• `(i) is specifically designed to operate in a household appliance, has a maximum wattage of 40 watts, and is sold at retail, including an oven lamp, refrigerator lamp, and vacuum cleaner lamp; and
  `(ii) is designated and marketed for the intended application, with--
  • `(I) the designation on the lamp packaging; and
    `(II) marketing materials that identify the lamp as being for appliance use.

 

[LukeA]

How much would you like to wager on the toilet flushing? I do get out and have chances to see and use these new 1.6 GPF models....and they are inferior. I was talking to my plumber in August who hears more complaints and service calls over them than anything else he is called about. He has a lot of people who are waiting for him to find some of the old toilets.

I would wager plenty on the toilet flushing. In the three years that that toilet has been in (very regular) use, I have had to use a plunger on it exactly once, as opposed to at least once or twice per month with the 6 gpf model it replaced.

I am talking about this toilet. Well, a production sample from the previous generation to the linked models.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

I can't believe some here are talking about the free market. Wrong. This has absolutely nothing to do with the free market. The free market wanted incans yesterday. They want them today and they will still want them tomorrow -- and they vote with their wallets. No group of elitest doddering dunderheads in DC who have never created a product can ever hope to emulate the free market -- they may be able to cram bad ideas like the CAFE standards down some throats but then that hasn't really been very successful in terms of adoption. The same is true of this most recent ban.

Politicians can't lead the free market around by the nose -- it's the other way around. Most of the solutions wistfully suggested to this arbitrary ban are just that -- wistful. Politicians in CA have spent hundreds of millions of dollars in the last twenty years trying to lead the energy business around by the nose and they have come up with nothing of any import. CA's energy situation would be far better if they had just banked on the free market rather than constantly eroding it by throwing money at every half baked idea that came down the pike.

The very notion that politicions may somehow jump start the wisdom of the market is completely backward (as CA has demonstrated.)

When something better than incans comes around a free market will rush to it with no coaxing whatsoever. Like the CAFE standards before it this idea of putting the cart before the horse will likely only lead to higher cost and non-compliance.

As far as reading the bill goes I don't see how that's important. If the legislators who vote on the bills don't read them, why should we?

 

[Alan B]

The bill has some interesting and reasonable exclusions, but legislation like this rarely gets it right in the details.

How many lumens are photofloods? When will cost effective LEDs or CFLs match that?? Maybe they're excluded, hard to tell. I know we've got some "natural light" blue incans that will probably not be allowed under this ban, and there is no equivalent fluorescent or LED that has the right color spectrum for color analysis, and the market is so small it may not be satisfied...

Of course all they have to do to get around this is to change the bulb base and make an adapter...

-- Alan

 

[KROMATICS]

Bans are not a good way to encourage technology and savings, though. Tungsten lamps are just better for some things, such as in the oven, or for heat lamps. Politics and Bans don't make the right answer. CFLs will also be banned soon (most likely) due to the mercury.

Keep in mind this is a gradual phase-out starting four years from now in 2012. As I understand it starts with the most common household bulbs (A19) and limits them to 72w for lamps with an output of 1490 to 2600 lumens. It doesn't read to me like incandescents are even banned. It's just that when you get past 1500 lumens or so fluorescents and LEDs are really the only way to go. I read that GE has been working on more efficient incandescents. You can view the bill here and attempt to decipher it. There are lots of exclusions, exceptions, etc. for various bulbs types. They also seem to be pushing manufacturers for more lumens per watt and better color rendering from fluorescents and LEDs and offering prizes for the best designs.

 

[KROMATICS]

The bill has some interesting and reasonable exclusions, but legislation like this rarely gets it right in the details.

How many lumens are photofloods? When will cost effective LEDs or CFLs match that?? Maybe they're excluded, hard to tell. I know we've got some "natural light" blue incans that will probably not be allowed under this ban, and there is no equivalent fluorescent or LED that has the right color spectrum for color analysis, and the market is so small it may not be satisfied...

As you can see in the bill most of the details have yet to be worked out so there is a lot of wiggle room.

I think this energy bill is a good thing. Sadly, in this country companies tend to sit on their collective asses and only innovate when they are forced to. It's the same for the lighting industry as it is for the automotive industry. Now they don't have a choice. They have to improve their products. Poor babies.

 

[jtr1962]

When something better than incans comes around a free market will rush to it with no coaxing whatsoever. Like the CAFE standards before it this idea of putting the cart before the horse will likely only lead to higher cost and non-compliance.

That something has existed for years. It's called linear fluorescents and the market did rush to it, at least the commercial market. Unfortunately for whatever reason they were never pushed in the residential market. It's a pity because they blow CFLs away in terms of lifetime, efficiency, light distribution, even color rendering if you get the right tubes. I've been using linear tubes almost everywhere for years at home. I can't ever see going back to screw-in socket-based fixtures of any kind.

Now there are some things linear fluorescent can't replace, but for most kinds of indoor residential lighting it's just fine. With LEDs able to fill the niches linear fluorescent can't, I think in four years time the market will provide plenty of options. I hope if LED advances as fast as I think it will that new, more aggressive lpw standards will be put into place. I'd really like to see a 100 lpw minimum standard for any type of general lighting.

 

[Lightfantastic]

Another government solution in search of a problem. It's just a hidden increase in your costs. Under what part of the Constitution is the Federal Government granted this kind of power? California has always been nutz.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

That something has existed for years. It's called linear fluorescents and the market did rush to it, at least the commercial market. Unfortunately for whatever reason they were never pushed in the residential market. It's a pity because they blow CFLs away in terms of lifetime, efficiency, light distribution, even color rendering if you get the right tubes. I've been using linear tubes almost everywhere for years at home. I can't ever see going back to screw-in socket-based fixtures of any kind.

Now there are some things linear fluorescent can't replace, but for most kinds of indoor residential lighting it's just fine. With LEDs able to fill the niches linear fluorescent can't, I think in four years time the market will provide plenty of options. I hope if LED advances as fast as I think it will that new, more aggressive lpw standards will be put into place. I'd really like to see a 100 lpw minimum standard for any type of general lighting.

You're making my point for me. I have no argument that fluorescents exist, just remember that they evolved out of market demand and they did not come from government regulation. They came about because one group thought that they could make money on them and without any government intervention, another group thought they could save money by using them. The notion that some politicions who have never run a business, never developed a product, never met a payroll and probably never even bought a fluorescent can somehow streamline your idea of what is best for everyone is absurd. Again, the roads are filled with SUVs in spite of the most well intentioned CAFE standard.

Your use of the phrase "for whatever reason" speaks volumes about your understanding of where inovation and successful products really come from.

 

[LED_Thrift]

Thanks KROMATICS

 

[VidPro]

Well, similar to the small toilets mandated by the US Govt. years ago to save water, today's energy bill signed into law by Bush bans incan bulbs in 4 years.

(sniff):mecry: (sniff) hey this isnt as funny as it was when i heard Austrailia was banning incadescent, mabey i shouldnt have laughed at them austrailains back then :green:.

`(ii) EXCLUSIONS- The term `general service incandescent lamp' does not include
Dontcha just love Loopholes, i can see the ELITE now , getting a fix on left handed thread adapters , hanging artistic traffic lights up for track lighting, putting plastic plants under thier lamps , hanging silver bowls? from thier ceiling, and having artsy Ships in thier living room and calling it marine. but the funny one is going to be seeing the 40W apliance lights in the candelabras :naughty:
because you know the only people who wont be following along with the plan will be the people who condemned us to it, the rest of us peasants started conversion long ago.

i better get busier with that Acrichie project, before i have to change fixtures.

Hey , Buddy, want a nice deal on a case of incans, ohoh, its the light police run.

how come no change to Automotive lights? is this assuming that a gasoline alternator isnt a energy issue? and of course lead acid storage is enviromental too.
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from: http://biz.yahoo.com/usnews/071219/...as_we_know_it.html?.v=1&.pf=banking-budgeting
I've heard that CFLs don't really last as long as they say. Turning a CFL on and off frequently shortens its life, which is why the government's Energy Star program says to leave them on for at least 15 minutes at a time.

brilliant solution to that problem, need the light for 15 seconds? just have it on for 15minutes instead :thinking: makes sence to me, so i am sure it will make sence to congress.

 

[made in china]

Alan B:
LED bulbs do NOT dim like incans, they dim like CFL's. Any electronic bulb will not dim as you would expect a incan on a typical household dimmer. Of course special dimmers can be made for certain lamp technologies.

One thing everyone is missing: America will lose even more jobs as incans become obsolete(d). Most incans are still made in USA, with many made in Mexico and unfortunately some made in China. Of course, USA no longer can manufacture anything these days it seems, and Mexico won't be manufacturing this new leading edge technology either. So, here we go again pushing more American jobs overseas (guess which country: one hint, go to Wal Mart and you'll figure it out). This bill should include legislation that restricts how much of this newer generation product can be made outside of USA. And more specifically, this bill should partially exclude China from producing the majority of this product that will replace incans. Don't you think we throw enough money out of this country already? And most goes into a Communist country's pocket which has no intentions of being our true ally?

Oh wait, no worries. The major corporations like GE and Sylvania will still profit from putting their name on these products, despite the fact they have very few American employees left. And of course, politicians being the businessmen they are won't mind helping to make fellow businessmen (lobbyists) rich(er).

 

[made in china]

how come no change to Automotive lights? is this assuming that a gasoline alternator isnt a energy issue? and of course lead acid storage is enviromental too.

My wife's new car uses LED tail lights and HID headlamps. The LED tails probably use only 5 watts of power on "high" as opposed to at least 54w to more than 108w for typical tail lights. The HID headlights are 35w each compared to halogens which are 55w each.

My car has HID headlights and fluorescent gauge lighting.

I'd say many new cars have a very sophisticated lighting scheme that saves energy. However, I have not noticed much difference at all between whether we run lights all the time or not. Seems the amount of power automotive lighting consumes is fractional compared to the amount of power a typical car engine wastes. And then there is the SUV and large trucks...ahem

 

[LuxLuthor]

I would wager plenty on the toilet flushing. In the three years that that toilet has been in (very regular) use, I have had to use a plunger on it exactly once, as opposed to at least once or twice per month with the 6 gpf model it replaced.

I am talking about this toilet. Well, a production sample from the previous generation to the linked models.

Let's see the money. I have NEVER had to use a plunger on my 7 GPF toilets, that's correct NEVER. I don't even know where a toilet plunger is in the house.

There is plenty of water to cover the waste smell if you like to sit and read a while and many guests and family over the years have praised how well the toilets work at our house. I wouldn't sell them for $5,000 each--they are that much superior. So enjoy you rinky-dink water saver model all you want.

Again, on this topic....I would begin to think about a more efficient toilet if I saw a TOTAL, NATIONAL BAN ON ALL LAWN WATERING, RUNNING WATER FOUNTAINS, & FILLING OF SWIMMING POOLS....since those are complete vanity luxuries. The proper flushing of human waste is a health and hygiene issue.

There is the same analogy to incan lightbulbs being banned. There are millions of liberals however who think government control, banning, and ever increasing regulation is what should happen in a free country. Look how well that's working on our domestic energy supply. A nuclear power plant can't fart without Ralph Nader slapping them down.

Never mind that signficant forests burn to the ground with untold amounts of air pollution, personal loss, and environmental damage....sensible logging to thin out and reseed is still seen by activists as a devil spawn industry. How's that working out for ya?