Inretech Trilight III ! !
- Thread starter 3rd_shift
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3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
Competition cometh, but not for several weeks.
Tri-star appears quite similar to Inretech's Trilight3.
I guess we shall see.
Competition cometh, but not for several weeks.
Tri-star appears quite similar to Inretech's Trilight3.
I guess we shall see.
3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
I am actually curious as to what conditions the tri-star's brightness is achieved by. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif
In other words; what kind of batteries are recommended to get it's 216 lumen rating with, and at what current/voltage drive level. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
I am actually curious as to what conditions the tri-star's brightness is achieved by. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif
In other words; what kind of batteries are recommended to get it's 216 lumen rating with, and at what current/voltage drive level. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
Getting some trilight temperatures; stand by.....
Getting some trilight temperatures; stand by.....
3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
Standing Trilight3 on it's tail with 1mm temp probe stuck up under optional Mag protective rubber bezel cover.
10 minutes into the test;
room temp; 72 F
trilight3 103 F
Standing Trilight3 on it's tail with 1mm temp probe stuck up under optional Mag protective rubber bezel cover.
10 minutes into the test;
room temp; 72 F
trilight3 103 F
3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
18 minutes into test;
Trilight3 115 F
18 minutes into test;
Trilight3 115 F
3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
25 minutes into test:
Trilight3 121 F
25 minutes into test:
Trilight3 121 F
3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
30 minutes, test conclusion:
Trilight3 temperature: leveled off at 123 degrees F, 49 celsius /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Room temp 73 degrees F.
Electrical Current at 5.3 volts: 2.66 amps (at conclusion of test)with 4 Nexcell 8500 D cell Nimhs.
I cheated a little though with the use of a paper thin layer of computer processor heatsink grease between the kit and mag case head inside. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif
And yes, it did feel kinda hot in my hand, but still well below the 212 degree F the emitters can reportedly handle.
30 minutes, test conclusion:
Trilight3 temperature: leveled off at 123 degrees F, 49 celsius /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Room temp 73 degrees F.
Electrical Current at 5.3 volts: 2.66 amps (at conclusion of test)with 4 Nexcell 8500 D cell Nimhs.
I cheated a little though with the use of a paper thin layer of computer processor heatsink grease between the kit and mag case head inside. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif
And yes, it did feel kinda hot in my hand, but still well below the 212 degree F the emitters can reportedly handle.
INRETECH
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
Is this test being done with an optical probe, or thermocouple ?
Is this test being done with an optical probe, or thermocouple ?
naromtap
Enlightened
Re: Inretech Trilight3
3rd Shift - interesting points you've made on the battery front as I've got a Trilight III on its way so will now try & track some D cell batteries down to as near 3 amp as possible for maximum brightness. I too ordered on the strenth of LED MUSEUM's review so now I've read another positive review on it, yours, I'm quite looking forward to its arrival!
3rd Shift - interesting points you've made on the battery front as I've got a Trilight III on its way so will now try & track some D cell batteries down to as near 3 amp as possible for maximum brightness. I too ordered on the strenth of LED MUSEUM's review so now I've read another positive review on it, yours, I'm quite looking forward to its arrival!
Ocelot
Newly Enlightened
Re: Inretech Trilight3
> And yes, it did feel kinda hot in my hand, but still well below the 212 degree F the emitters can reportedly handle.
Actually, you don't know what the junction temperature is of the semiconductor material, which is the important place to measure. It is probably very close to the 135C spec, possibly even over the spec.
Here is a some info on junction temps vs externally measured temps.
The thermal resistance between the semiconductor (LED itself) and the outside world must be taken into account if you are not measuring temperature at the semiconductor.
If you measure the temperature of the flashlight head, then what you are measuring is the temperature drop between the case and the air:
air temp | res | case temp | res | module temp | res | LED
The above is meant to illustrate that there are various thermal resistances between the elements. There are of course many more thermal resistors in there depending on the design of the system. The Luxeon LED is mounted on a slab of aluminum, and there is thus a built-in thermal resistor between the LED and this aluminum, before you even add anything else to the system. For one of the Luxeon die mounted on an aluminum heat spreader, the thermal resistance is about 11 degrees C/watt. So, if you have a raw 5W Luxeon Star, and you measure an aluminum slug temp of say 30C, then the *actual* die temp might be 30C + 11C/W * 5W = 85C.
If you have a Luxeon mounted to some kind of assembly which is then mounted inside of a Mag head, the thermal conductivity probably isn't really great and thus the thermal resistance is higher than you would like or think. You could easily be adding a thermal resistance of say 20-30C/W in there, in which case when used with a single 5W LED the temp at the LED substrate would increase by 150C compared to the barrel temp.
That is one reason my design mounts the Luxeon straight onto a heatsink, and the heatsink acts as part of the housing. I wanted to get the lowest thermal resistance I could out of the system. The heat sink adds something like 8C/W on top of the 10C/W or so that the aluminum slug adds, for a total of 20C/W. When I run it at 5W, the heatsink temperature gets up to about 130F after 18 minutes (measured with an infrared thermometer).
In your case, you measured 14.1W going into the head, and 49C case temp. We know that there is at least an 11 C/W thermal resistor in there. I assume that there are 3 in parallel (3 LEDs?). Assuming they aren't on the aluminum heat spreaders but are emitters, then the thermal resistance drops to 8C/W. My heatsink is only around 8 C/W, and I suspect that your flashlight has a higher thermal resistance than that, however lets just say it's also 8C/W. 49C + 14.1 * (8/3 + 8) = 199.4C. Hmm, I think you are over the 135C limit.
For more info see
http://www.theledlight.com/pdf/Luxeon/Technical5W.pdf
Scott
> And yes, it did feel kinda hot in my hand, but still well below the 212 degree F the emitters can reportedly handle.
Actually, you don't know what the junction temperature is of the semiconductor material, which is the important place to measure. It is probably very close to the 135C spec, possibly even over the spec.
Here is a some info on junction temps vs externally measured temps.
The thermal resistance between the semiconductor (LED itself) and the outside world must be taken into account if you are not measuring temperature at the semiconductor.
If you measure the temperature of the flashlight head, then what you are measuring is the temperature drop between the case and the air:
air temp | res | case temp | res | module temp | res | LED
The above is meant to illustrate that there are various thermal resistances between the elements. There are of course many more thermal resistors in there depending on the design of the system. The Luxeon LED is mounted on a slab of aluminum, and there is thus a built-in thermal resistor between the LED and this aluminum, before you even add anything else to the system. For one of the Luxeon die mounted on an aluminum heat spreader, the thermal resistance is about 11 degrees C/watt. So, if you have a raw 5W Luxeon Star, and you measure an aluminum slug temp of say 30C, then the *actual* die temp might be 30C + 11C/W * 5W = 85C.
If you have a Luxeon mounted to some kind of assembly which is then mounted inside of a Mag head, the thermal conductivity probably isn't really great and thus the thermal resistance is higher than you would like or think. You could easily be adding a thermal resistance of say 20-30C/W in there, in which case when used with a single 5W LED the temp at the LED substrate would increase by 150C compared to the barrel temp.
That is one reason my design mounts the Luxeon straight onto a heatsink, and the heatsink acts as part of the housing. I wanted to get the lowest thermal resistance I could out of the system. The heat sink adds something like 8C/W on top of the 10C/W or so that the aluminum slug adds, for a total of 20C/W. When I run it at 5W, the heatsink temperature gets up to about 130F after 18 minutes (measured with an infrared thermometer).
In your case, you measured 14.1W going into the head, and 49C case temp. We know that there is at least an 11 C/W thermal resistor in there. I assume that there are 3 in parallel (3 LEDs?). Assuming they aren't on the aluminum heat spreaders but are emitters, then the thermal resistance drops to 8C/W. My heatsink is only around 8 C/W, and I suspect that your flashlight has a higher thermal resistance than that, however lets just say it's also 8C/W. 49C + 14.1 * (8/3 + 8) = 199.4C. Hmm, I think you are over the 135C limit.
For more info see
http://www.theledlight.com/pdf/Luxeon/Technical5W.pdf
Scott
3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
Sorry for being away so long. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif
The thermal tests were done with a thermocouple on the end of a long wire hooked up to a dedicated port just for it to plug into on my digital multitester.
The room temp "72-73 F" indicated on it was consistent with my red filled outdoor thermometer (brought inside) and the ac's thermostat in the room. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif
Some user's results may still vary a bit though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
This test was kinda brutal with the full capacity nimhs, rubber bezel cover on (covering part of the flashlight's top), no air circulation whatsoever in the room and the flashlight not moving like would normally be the case with my nightly foot patrols at work. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif
Final result: no damage at all, looks and runs great. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif
I have some resized 320x240 screenshots of this flashlight if someone can tell me how to get them on here.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
Sorry for being away so long. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif
The thermal tests were done with a thermocouple on the end of a long wire hooked up to a dedicated port just for it to plug into on my digital multitester.
The room temp "72-73 F" indicated on it was consistent with my red filled outdoor thermometer (brought inside) and the ac's thermostat in the room. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif
Some user's results may still vary a bit though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
This test was kinda brutal with the full capacity nimhs, rubber bezel cover on (covering part of the flashlight's top), no air circulation whatsoever in the room and the flashlight not moving like would normally be the case with my nightly foot patrols at work. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif
Final result: no damage at all, looks and runs great. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif
I have some resized 320x240 screenshots of this flashlight if someone can tell me how to get them on here.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
INRETECH
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
A thermocouple is the most accurate means to measure something
Optical measurements can be affected by the Emissivity of the material
http://www.raytek-europe.com/tools/products/view.html?phase=show&id=1014323503&tool_id=14&cat_id=9.5
http://www.x20.org/library/thermal/emissivity.htm
A thermocouple is the most accurate means to measure something
Optical measurements can be affected by the Emissivity of the material
http://www.raytek-europe.com/tools/products/view.html?phase=show&id=1014323503&tool_id=14&cat_id=9.5
http://www.x20.org/library/thermal/emissivity.htm
3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
If anyone reading this thread has a Trilight3 and an infrared temp probe, please post your findings here.
Btw, I'm not flaming anybody here when I say this, but;
Trilight3 has luxeon3's not L5's. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
[email protected] can confirm this one easy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Parallel thermal resistance does nothing to increase temps
as long as each emitter has it's own thermal path to the outside world (this setup does for each emitter).
This setup is: junction temp - slug - kit heatsink of aluminium - aluminum mag body -outside air.
Each emitter has less than an inch of thermally conductive materials (same as used on our hot computer processors) to dump it's heat to the outside world.
Emitters within a ring of emitters within a ring of emitters is: series thermal resistance, and can pose some issues such as the 8/3 numbers would indicate. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif
Any other comments or especially good info are welcome as long as nobody's temper comes in need for a heatsink. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
(mine hasn't, so fire away). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
If anyone reading this thread has a Trilight3 and an infrared temp probe, please post your findings here.
Btw, I'm not flaming anybody here when I say this, but;
Trilight3 has luxeon3's not L5's. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
[email protected] can confirm this one easy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Parallel thermal resistance does nothing to increase temps
as long as each emitter has it's own thermal path to the outside world (this setup does for each emitter).
This setup is: junction temp - slug - kit heatsink of aluminium - aluminum mag body -outside air.
Each emitter has less than an inch of thermally conductive materials (same as used on our hot computer processors) to dump it's heat to the outside world.
Emitters within a ring of emitters within a ring of emitters is: series thermal resistance, and can pose some issues such as the 8/3 numbers would indicate. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif
Any other comments or especially good info are welcome as long as nobody's temper comes in need for a heatsink. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
(mine hasn't, so fire away). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
Oh, forget I requested infrared readings. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Oh, forget I requested infrared readings. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
I took some pics last night, now setting up a website for them. bear with me here.
I took some pics last night, now setting up a website for them. bear with me here.
Ocelot
Newly Enlightened
Re: Inretech Trilight3
Since the guy from Inretech is posting...
What are the thermal resistance numbers from the substrate to the outside world, and what are your calculated maximum substrate temps?
Having worked with a single 5W current-regulated Luxeon on a CPU heatsink and measuring the temperatures, I'm somewhat skeptical about squeezing 3 3W emitters into an enclosed space. The thermal path from my Luxeon to the outside world is less than 1/4". It's essentially a Luxeon directly mounted onto a computer heat sink, completely exposed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
Scott
Since the guy from Inretech is posting...
What are the thermal resistance numbers from the substrate to the outside world, and what are your calculated maximum substrate temps?
Having worked with a single 5W current-regulated Luxeon on a CPU heatsink and measuring the temperatures, I'm somewhat skeptical about squeezing 3 3W emitters into an enclosed space. The thermal path from my Luxeon to the outside world is less than 1/4". It's essentially a Luxeon directly mounted onto a computer heat sink, completely exposed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
Scott
naromtap
Enlightened
Re: Inretech Trilight3
3rd shift - I cant make the pic out - your light is shining towards the cam right? any chance of a beamshot away from cam?!
3rd shift - I cant make the pic out - your light is shining towards the cam right? any chance of a beamshot away from cam?!
INRETECH
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Inretech Trilight3
I have a friend that has access to a FLIR/AGEMA Thermal imaging camera; as soon as he is will again - I will try and take some pictures; he just had surgery
I have a friend that has access to a FLIR/AGEMA Thermal imaging camera; as soon as he is will again - I will try and take some pictures; he just had surgery
Eric S
Newly Enlightened
Re: Inretech Trilight3
Elektrolumens makes the tristar. It is a DD light in a 3D body. Most are probley run on 4C alks.
I have done the ceiling test and outdoor night testing several times against my LC 100, using alks. and nimhs ( for a very short period). My Tristar put out more light and throw farther than my LC, and both have the same color temp. The LC claims 450 lumens.
Eric
Elektrolumens makes the tristar. It is a DD light in a 3D body. Most are probley run on 4C alks.
I have done the ceiling test and outdoor night testing several times against my LC 100, using alks. and nimhs ( for a very short period). My Tristar put out more light and throw farther than my LC, and both have the same color temp. The LC claims 450 lumens.
Eric
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